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Starter type questions #2967441
09/26/21 05:47 AM
09/26/21 05:47 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,651
Port Huron, Michigan
MI_Custumz Offline OP
master
MI_Custumz  Offline OP
master

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,651
Port Huron, Michigan
I am thinking of getting a smaller starter or some other set up when the one on my SBC dies. It's good so far, but does get heat soak with the headers. Below are the options I see in descriptions and was wondering what the differences are.

1) Direct drive

2) Permanent magnet gear reduction

3) Gear reduction

4) Mini starter

I hear the newer starters aren't as prone to heat soak.

Re: Starter type questions [Re: MI_Custumz] #2967456
09/26/21 08:32 AM
09/26/21 08:32 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 10,228
Colleyville
3hundred Offline
I Live Here
3hundred  Offline
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Posts: 10,228
Colleyville
This setup worked great on Dad's Pontiac for decades.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-g1750

I overkilled the POS cable making it from 00 cable.


'68 Fury Convertible
'69 300 Convertible
'15 Durango 5.7 Hemi
'16 300 S Hemi
Re: Starter type questions [Re: MI_Custumz] #2967509
09/26/21 01:12 PM
09/26/21 01:12 PM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 12,234
Looking for a way out of Middl...
IMGTX Offline
I Live Here
IMGTX  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 12,234
Looking for a way out of Middl...
Originally Posted by MI_Custumz
I am thinking of getting a smaller starter or some other set up when the one on my SBC dies. It's good so far, but does get heat soak with the headers. Below are the options I see in descriptions and was wondering what the differences are.

1) Direct drive

2) Permanent magnet gear reduction

3) Gear reduction

4) Mini starter

I hear the newer starters aren't as prone to heat soak.


Others may have a better advice on which brand/type to buy, but here are a few definitions of your questions.

1) Direct drive - A Direct Drive Starter has the bendix (Starter Drive Gear) mounted on the starter motor's shaft. It spins the same speed as the starter. It usually spins the engines faster but a larger/high compression engine requires a larger electric motor.

3) Gear reduction - A Gear reduction starter has the Bendix mounted to a separate shaft from the electric motor/Armature shaft. A gear(s) connects the two shafts and reduces the number of times the bendix turns in relation to the motor shaft. This acts like first gear in a transmission. More torque to turn the engine so a smaller electrical motor can be used but it will typically spin the motor a little slower.

4) Mini Starter - A more compact design starter. Almost always a gear reduction type starter since the electric motor is the largest part of the starter assembly and a gear reduction system allows a smaller faster spinning electric motor to be used in place of a larger torque motor.

2 Permanent Magnet - Electric motors operate by using magnetic fields to push/pull the armature to cause it to spin. Think about trying to put two magnets together and how they attract or repulse depending on the way they are positioned. Most high power AC/DC motors use the electric current flowing through coils mounted around the armature (Motor Housing) and coils inside the armature (Motor Shaft) to create an electric fields to drive (Turn) the motor. Permanent magnet motors use coils in the housing or armature and Permanant magnets in the other to create the magnetic fields to drive the motor.

All starters are either direct or gear reduction by design.

Either of those designs can be a Mini design, permanent magnet design or both.

I hope it helps.

Direct Drive.jpgGEar Reduction.jpgPermanent magnet motor.jpg
Re: Starter type questions [Re: IMGTX] #2967692
09/27/21 05:48 AM
09/27/21 05:48 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,651
Port Huron, Michigan
MI_Custumz Offline OP
master
MI_Custumz  Offline OP
master

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,651
Port Huron, Michigan
Thanks for the replies so far. I may look into the remote solenoid since it's cheaper and the actual starter is still good.

Re: Starter type questions [Re: 3hundred] #2968049
09/28/21 06:04 AM
09/28/21 06:04 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,651
Port Huron, Michigan
MI_Custumz Offline OP
master
MI_Custumz  Offline OP
master

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,651
Port Huron, Michigan
Originally Posted by 3hundred
This setup worked great on Dad's Pontiac for decades.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-g1750

I overkilled the POS cable making it from 00 cable.


How easy was this to install?

Did you have to drop the starter?

Did you have to purchase anything else to get it installed?

Any tips or tricks?

Re: Starter type questions [Re: MI_Custumz] #2968085
09/28/21 10:09 AM
09/28/21 10:09 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 10,228
Colleyville
3hundred Offline
I Live Here
3hundred  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 10,228
Colleyville
Originally Posted by MI_Custumz
Originally Posted by 3hundred
This setup worked great on Dad's Pontiac for decades.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-g1750

I overkilled the POS cable making it from 00 cable.


How easy was this to install?

Did you have to drop the starter?

Did you have to purchase anything else to get it installed?

Any tips or tricks?


1. Very easy for anybody mechanically inclined
2. I always had to drop the starter to work the solenoid wires
3. I did fabricate a new positive cable but you don't have to
You can cut your existing cable and crimp on two new eyelets for the Ford solenoid, there's a special tool for this, I suppose I lost mine, haven't seen it since
4. When I did it there was no kit, IIRC I got the diagram from HO Racing, long defunct. Check the diagram below.
5. I fabricated the shunt to tie the two terminals together, VERY short, just two eyelets with ~ 1/4" of wire to connect them. I could've used a piece of metal and drilled two holes.

I don't recall Dad ever having starter problems with that car again.

med_1367335681-starter_solenoid.jpg

'68 Fury Convertible
'69 300 Convertible
'15 Durango 5.7 Hemi
'16 300 S Hemi
Re: Starter type questions [Re: 3hundred] #2968315
09/29/21 05:42 AM
09/29/21 05:42 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,651
Port Huron, Michigan
MI_Custumz Offline OP
master
MI_Custumz  Offline OP
master

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,651
Port Huron, Michigan
Originally Posted by 3hundred
Originally Posted by MI_Custumz
Originally Posted by 3hundred
This setup worked great on Dad's Pontiac for decades.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-g1750

I overkilled the POS cable making it from 00 cable.


How easy was this to install?

Did you have to drop the starter?

Did you have to purchase anything else to get it installed?

Any tips or tricks?


1. Very easy for anybody mechanically inclined
2. I always had to drop the starter to work the solenoid wires
3. I did fabricate a new positive cable but you don't have to
You can cut your existing cable and crimp on two new eyelets for the Ford solenoid, there's a special tool for this, I suppose I lost mine, haven't seen it since
4. When I did it there was no kit, IIRC I got the diagram from HO Racing, long defunct. Check the diagram below.
5. I fabricated the shunt to tie the two terminals together, VERY short, just two eyelets with ~ 1/4" of wire to connect them. I could've used a piece of metal and drilled two holes.

I don't recall Dad ever having starter problems with that car again.



I wouldn't say I'm extremely mechanically inclined. But with the explanation, diagram, and knowing it's a few wires, it should be easy. Thanks a million. Car is in storage for the season a bit earlier than usual. It's on the list for spring time.







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