Lift Install
#2950914
08/06/21 12:07 AM
08/06/21 12:07 AM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 407 IL us
ink
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 407
IL us
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I bought a 14000 pond bend pak lift and alignment rack.(4 Post) Question i see some 4 post lifts that are movable not bolted down. i rather not bolt this lift down if i don't have to. being a 4 post lift will it be self supporting? I just finished the concrete in my shop its 5 inches thick with radiant heat and I'm afraid ill hit a line. any advice would be much apricated. thanks !!!
Last edited by ink; 08/06/21 12:08 AM.
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Re: Lift Install
[Re: ink]
#2950923
08/06/21 12:54 AM
08/06/21 12:54 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,806 Moved to N.E. Tennessee
GomangoCuda
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,806
Moved to N.E. Tennessee
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I think if you are going to use it as an alignment rack it would have to be flat and level. Anytime it is moved it should be leveled again. I once used a very expensive laser to level two Hunters that had been moved in an assembly plant. They had to be documented for ISO and MVSS compliance. You don't have to be that accurate. but it should be checked.
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.
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Re: Lift Install
[Re: ink]
#2950938
08/06/21 06:29 AM
08/06/21 06:29 AM
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 6,229 ohio
ruderunner
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master
Joined: Dec 2014
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ohio
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Portable lifts are designed for that. A bolted lift probably isn't. Also, check your spec sheet for the lift, 5 inches of concrete sounds marginal.
I put an Ammco 12000 4 post in my shop, it called for 6 inches and specified no cut lines within a distance of each post. I asked the concrete guys to wait a couple days before doing cuts so I could mark the appropriate areas as no cut zones.
There were similar restrictions for my 2 post lifts with the biggest difference the distance to cuts. Much larger area for the posts.
Note, I was doing a commercial installation and things got used daily. For a hobbyist you might get away with less but things only have to go wrong once.
I recommend rethinking your lift purchase and getting a portable one
Angry white pureblood male
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Re: Lift Install
[Re: ruderunner]
#2950958
08/06/21 08:36 AM
08/06/21 08:36 AM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,733 KY
65pacecar
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,733
KY
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Portable lifts are designed for that. A bolted lift probably isn't. Also, check your spec sheet for the lift, 5 inches of concrete sounds marginal.
I put an Ammco 12000 4 post in my shop, it called for 6 inches and specified no cut lines within a distance of each post. I asked the concrete guys to wait a couple days before doing cuts so I could mark the appropriate areas as no cut zones.
There were similar restrictions for my 2 post lifts with the biggest difference the distance to cuts. Much larger area for the posts.
Note, I was doing a commercial installation and things got used daily. For a hobbyist you might get away with less but things only have to go wrong once.
I recommend rethinking your lift purchase and getting a portable one I agree, I am looking at a portable 4 post lift, probably the backyard Buddy, if the lift is not portable it should be bolted in, too much risk otherwise. I think 6” is the minimal concrete recommended, I have 16” 4000 psi on the thin side and 36” on the other so I haven’t studied the concrete requirements too close, figured I have enough.
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Re: Lift Install
[Re: 65pacecar]
#2950978
08/06/21 09:58 AM
08/06/21 09:58 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,931 North Dakota
6PakBee
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,931
North Dakota
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As to the stability, anchored or not, it depends on the lift. I have a friend with a Direct Lift PP9 Plus ((9,000 lb model) and he did not fasten it to the floor. BUT the installation manual says that anchoring to the floor is optional. This model also has a caster option so you can move it around. What does your installation manual call for?
"We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".
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Re: Lift Install
[Re: ruderunner]
#2950985
08/06/21 10:09 AM
08/06/21 10:09 AM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,948 Tri-Cities, Washington
VITC_GTX
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,948
Tri-Cities, Washington
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Portable lifts are designed for that. A bolted lift probably isn't. Also, check your spec sheet for the lift, 5 inches of concrete sounds marginal.
I put an Ammco 12000 4 post in my shop, it called for 6 inches and specified no cut lines within a distance of each post. I asked the concrete guys to wait a couple days before doing cuts so I could mark the appropriate areas as no cut zones.
There were similar restrictions for my 2 post lifts with the biggest difference the distance to cuts. Much larger area for the posts.
Note, I was doing a commercial installation and things got used daily. For a hobbyist you might get away with less but things only have to go wrong once.
I recommend rethinking your lift purchase and getting a portable one My two post 10,000lb BendPak says 4" of 3000psi concrete is the requirement, and that's with only two pads touching the ground (most likely less surface area). I did pour closer to 6" in the area of the lift just to be sure. No issues after 15 years. I was definitely surprise when I read 4"
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Re: Lift Install
[Re: VITC_GTX]
#2951164
08/06/21 07:01 PM
08/06/21 07:01 PM
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 6,229 ohio
ruderunner
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 6,229
ohio
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Portable lifts are designed for that. A bolted lift probably isn't. Also, check your spec sheet for the lift, 5 inches of concrete sounds marginal.
I put an Ammco 12000 4 post in my shop, it called for 6 inches and specified no cut lines within a distance of each post. I asked the concrete guys to wait a couple days before doing cuts so I could mark the appropriate areas as no cut zones.
There were similar restrictions for my 2 post lifts with the biggest difference the distance to cuts. Much larger area for the posts.
Note, I was doing a commercial installation and things got used daily. For a hobbyist you might get away with less but things only have to go wrong once.
I recommend rethinking your lift purchase and getting a portable one My two post 10,000lb BendPak says 4" of 3000psi concrete is the requirement, and that's with only two pads touching the ground (most likely less surface area). I did pour closer to 6" in the area of the lift just to be sure. No issues after 15 years. I was definitely surprise when I read 4" Ok, but how close to the cuts? Iirc my 2 post lifts wanted 4 foot squares to anchor to.
Angry white pureblood male
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Re: Lift Install
[Re: moparx]
#2952390
08/10/21 10:58 AM
08/10/21 10:58 AM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,324 Ohio
jlatessa
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,324
Ohio
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Moparx, the jack stand thing is something to think about.
Also, I have a drain in the middle of the area for the lift with slopes from side to side to accommodate drainage. How do the lift instructions manage that?
Thanks, Joe
PS along with the jack stand thinking, what about the load from the two little wheels of your floor jack lifting the front of a C or B body, maybe 75% of the total car weight???
Last edited by jlatessa; 08/10/21 11:02 AM.
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Re: Lift Install
[Re: jlatessa]
#2952417
08/10/21 11:57 AM
08/10/21 11:57 AM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 20,235 north of coder
moparx
"Butt Crack Bob"
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"Butt Crack Bob"
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 20,235
north of coder
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i believe it the jack wheels would also somewhat compare to the jack stands, with a very high pinpoint load on a very small contact patch of concrete. but once again, i'm not an engineer, so i don't know how these examples would compare to the suggested support the lift legs require. it still gives one something to think about. a two post lift is an altogether different animal...........
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Re: Lift Install
[Re: ink]
#2952736
08/11/21 09:30 AM
08/11/21 09:30 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,931 North Dakota
6PakBee
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Posts: 10,931
North Dakota
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thanks for all the replies. what I'm thinking about doing is putting in 2 5inch thick slabs of concrete over the top of my floor. thinking 2 ft in width the whole length of the lift on each side. mounting the lift on top kind of like the gas pumps islands at gas stations. I will pin the slabs in with some stainless steel doll pins ( drilling only a half inch so not to hit any water lines ) to keep it from moving and some ramp extensions for the difference in height my slab is probably more closer to 6 " thick and a 5 bag mix with fiber and wire mesh Frankly I wouldn't go that route. You are still point loading the additional concrete footing and point loads tend to fracture concrete. When I had to install some additional support in my basement for the center stringer I faced a similar dilemma, point loads on a 3" thick concrete floor. What I ended up doing was using 12" X 12" X 1/2" steel plates. Worst case, that plate simply supported on the edges, should deflect about 0.020" with a point load of 5000 lbs. With my 3500 lb floor jacks I didn't think I'd have a problem and I haven't. So far. As to hitting your embedded floor heat, use thermography to locate them. Works like a charm. A lot of building contractors now have thermography cameras to show homeowners where they have heat loss through windows, doors, etc. so I am confident you could round someone up to do that for you.
"We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".
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Re: Lift Install
[Re: 6PakBee]
#2952871
08/11/21 04:58 PM
08/11/21 04:58 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,806 Moved to N.E. Tennessee
GomangoCuda
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,806
Moved to N.E. Tennessee
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Maybe a cheap infrared thermometer? Like everyone used to check your temp last year. Cheap ones are about $15-$30 anywhere that sells tools.
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.
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Re: Lift Install
[Re: GomangoCuda]
#2952958
08/11/21 08:16 PM
08/11/21 08:16 PM
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 6,229 ohio
ruderunner
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 6,229
ohio
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A jackstand supporting a car 2 feet up is way different than a lift supporting a car 5 feet up.
It's not an issue of punching through the concrete but being able to hold the posts down while a car is in the air.
Angry white pureblood male
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