Re: Punishment for repairing my own vehicle
[Re: Roadcuda]
#2930568
06/06/21 05:59 PM
06/06/21 05:59 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,538 Albany, NY
67SATisfaction
The member whose name is actually Art
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The member whose name is actually Art
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,538
Albany, NY
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The short of it is, the state KNOWS many people avoid the actual sales tax by deliberately cheating on the Bill of Sale. What else would you expect them to do? Wouldn't you be angry at your state bureaucracy for NOT trying to address it, when the only way for them to recover that loss in taxes is to increase taxes on everyone - both cheaters and non-cheaters? Ct does that. I bought a car with a sales price of $ 7500. When I registered the car they charged me tax based on that amount. About a month later I get a letter from DMV saying that after review using what ever valuation books they use that the car was was worth about double what I listed and wanted me to pay the difference on top of what I already paid.. I remember this insanity after I moved to CT... but it's just "business as usual" for those who live there: First you pay sales tax when you buy and register the car.. THEN you have the privilege of bending over and paying "property tax" EVERY YEAR on the value of your vehicle(s). I moved to MA, then to NY and the total we pay in taxes is higher than CT as an overall %, but somehow it doesn't chafe me when it's only income, school and real estate property tax, and not a perpetual tax on my toys. NY is reputed to check book value vs Bill of Sale at the time of sales tax/registration.. and also reported to check purchase vs sale price upon RESALE of the car, so the state can possibly track Capital Gains you earn on the re-sale, even private transactions. So, since the cars I own were all bought far below market value, in distressed condition, and I fix them up, my Bill of Sales always include a written description of their condition: Non-roadworthy, etc, etc. Aaand I keep records of the work I do to the cars, the parts I buy, sales receipts and all. Fun stuff. - Art
65 Satellite hardtop 361/4bbl console 727 2.76 67 Satellite convert 383/2bbl column 727 3.23 67 Lancia Fulvia Sport 1.3 Zagato. Alloy body, 1.3L V4 DOHC 4-spd 67 Lancia Fulvia Rallye 1.3. Alloy panel, 1.3L V4 DOHC 4-spd 71 Alfa Romeo GT Junior 1300 Zagato, 1.3L 4cyl DOHC hemi 5-spd 82 Alfa Romeo GTV6 2.5L SOHC hemi V6 5-spd transaxle 75 Maserati Bora US spec 4.9L DOHC hemi V8 5-spd ZF 77 Maserati Khamsin Euro spec 4.9L DOHC hemi V8 5-spd ZF 07 Aston Martin DB9 6.0L DOHC V12 6spd transaxle
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Re: Punishment for repairing my own vehicle
[Re: DAYCLONA]
#2930691
06/06/21 11:06 PM
06/06/21 11:06 PM
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Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 9,454 Super Spudsville
Mr PotatoHead
Half Baked
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Half Baked
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 9,454
Super Spudsville
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Ummm how much tax should I of paid on 360k stock sale profit? Someone missed something and it was not me. So much for trying to be cryptic. My point was to pay the man and move on is a smart thing to do at times. Long ago I did something and the irs hit me with a 13k back tax request. Either I or they missed something but I sent a bank check that week and never heard back from them. Hey, what about that $50K I let you borrow? I guess you missed paying me also, just send me a check and I let those hard feelings go....buddy Seriously though, you should have questioned that IRS bullchit, I got hit by an IRS "letter" saying I owed them $40K....dammed if I was going to pay that!, funny thing is they wouldn't give me a local office that I could visit to show my displeasure, they just wanted a check, in full!, after several months and talking to IRS individuals in almost every State, funny my State didn't have IRS employees or offices, who would have thunk? and with every argument with a new agent the amount slowly went down review after review....eventually we settled on $11K due to a filling "error"....
STOP POTATO HATE!
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Re: Punishment for repairing my own vehicle
[Re: ZIPPY]
#2931521
06/09/21 06:29 AM
06/09/21 06:29 AM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,229 In The Hills
jughed
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,229
In The Hills
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Be happy that you're not in ILL-inois. The state is so hungry for money that they now have a tax on cars being traded in. I have nothing to trade in, but have been wanting to purchase a new vehicle for at least 3 years. I refuse to do that while living in Illinois. I will buy a new vehicle once i leave the state (just retired and working on that now) ...if a way to collect sales tax were to be figured out when you sell your buddy a wrench you never use anymore, or a tire and wheel that doesn't fit your current ride, they would be all over it ! They're working on that. A cashless society is their goal...EVERY private transaction will one day be recorded, monitored, and taxed accordingly. No more paying $20K for a classic car and reporting it as $500. They will know what you paid.
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Re: Punishment for repairing my own vehicle
[Re: jughed]
#2931601
06/09/21 12:34 PM
06/09/21 12:34 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,109 Byron, NY
W.I.N. Racing
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,109
Byron, NY
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What are the actual repercussions of telling them to pound sand? If it is indeed a SALES tax you owe some percentage of that nothing more. If they charge you more, it is not a sales tax but and transaction fee.
'01 P1500, Blown/Inj BAE,/Veney ,Bruno/CS2,Dana 60 '01 Dodge 3500 S Cummins Auto, Fresh air kit, 4" Exhaust, '05 Dodge Magnum R/T - Too Much to list '60 Willys CJ5 '01 International LPX - Project,DT466, Allison '64 Plymouth Valiant, Inj 528 Hemi, 2spd
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Re: Punishment for repairing my own vehicle
[Re: W.I.N. Racing]
#2931669
06/09/21 03:16 PM
06/09/21 03:16 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,489 Minnesota
Hemi_Joel
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,489
Minnesota
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I wouldn't pay it and I wouldn't phone them again. I would send them a letter, certified, return receipt requested. The letter would state what I paid for the car, That it was an arm's length transaction at fair market value, that I paid the appropriate tax, And that there is nothing further to discuss. I would inform them that if they disagree, that the burden of proof is on them and to submit their evidence to you for consideration, and that all correspondence must be by mail. Doubtful you would ever hear back. I have been in business for 40 years, and have been constantly harassed by petty, small minded, power hungry bureaucrats. Local, state, county, federal, IRS, EPA, Dept of Labor and industry, etc. One thing I have learned is to never, ever, communicate verbally or via email. Always and only via certified mail. It diffuses their ability to enjoy the power trip, raises concern that they could be held accountable for mistakes, and all but the most hard-core will close the file and move on to an easier mark.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/boeexFms.jpg[/img]31 Plymouth Coupe, 392 Hemi, T56 magnum RS23J71 RS27J77 RP23J71 RO23J71 WM21J8A I don't regret the things I've done. I only regret the things I didn't do. "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something. ~ Plato"
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Re: Punishment for repairing my own vehicle
[Re: Hemi_Joel]
#2931840
06/09/21 11:58 PM
06/09/21 11:58 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,116 Tucson, AZ
Ramrod39
My New Title
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My New Title
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,116
Tucson, AZ
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I wouldn't pay it and I wouldn't phone them again. I would send them a letter, certified, return receipt requested. The letter would state what I paid for the car, That it was an arm's length transaction at fair market value, that I paid the appropriate tax, And that there is nothing further to discuss. I would inform them that if they disagree, that the burden of proof is on them and to submit their evidence to you for consideration, and that all correspondence must be by mail. Doubtful you would ever hear back. I have been in business for 40 years, and have been constantly harassed by petty, small minded, power hungry bureaucrats. Local, state, county, federal, IRS, EPA, Dept of Labor and industry, etc. One thing I have learned is to never, ever, communicate verbally or via email. Always and only via certified mail. It diffuses their ability to enjoy the power trip, raises concern that they could be held accountable for mistakes, and all but the most hard-core will close the file and move on to an easier mark. Brilliantly stated...
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Re: Punishment for repairing my own vehicle
[Re: Hemi_Joel]
#2932260
06/11/21 12:28 PM
06/11/21 12:28 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,109 Byron, NY
W.I.N. Racing
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,109
Byron, NY
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I wouldn't pay it and I wouldn't phone them again. I would send them a letter, certified, return receipt requested. The letter would state what I paid for the car, That it was an arm's length transaction at fair market value, that I paid the appropriate tax, And that there is nothing further to discuss. I would inform them that if they disagree, that the burden of proof is on them and to submit their evidence to you for consideration, and that all correspondence must be by mail. Doubtful you would ever hear back. I have been in business for 40 years, and have been constantly harassed by petty, small minded, power hungry bureaucrats. Local, state, county, federal, IRS, EPA, Dept of Labor and industry, etc. One thing I have learned is to never, ever, communicate verbally or via email. Always and only via certified mail. It diffuses their ability to enjoy the power trip, raises concern that they could be held accountable for mistakes, and all but the most hard-core will close the file and move on to an easier mark. Couldn't more!
'01 P1500, Blown/Inj BAE,/Veney ,Bruno/CS2,Dana 60 '01 Dodge 3500 S Cummins Auto, Fresh air kit, 4" Exhaust, '05 Dodge Magnum R/T - Too Much to list '60 Willys CJ5 '01 International LPX - Project,DT466, Allison '64 Plymouth Valiant, Inj 528 Hemi, 2spd
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Re: Punishment for repairing my own vehicle
[Re: W.I.N. Racing]
#2933161
06/14/21 12:05 PM
06/14/21 12:05 PM
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Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 744 Almost Heaven
Bob Stinson
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 744
Almost Heaven
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I've got something similar going on here in WV. The witch at the DMV wouldn't let me transfer a signed WV title, and told me that i had to have the VIN verified by LEO. I looked up there rules and there's nothing about that in there, and verification is only needed if you don't have a title or the VIN tag is missing. There's a fee involved and I need to take time off work because they're only open during business hours.
I'm pretty sure their point is to squeeze me on sales tax, like they're doing to Zippy, or maybe it's a ploy to get a cop on my property to nose around. Either way I wish I would've known this was coming before I fixed most of what was wrong with it.
69 road runner A12 ex-racer 71 Duster w/ a 400
Shiny paint causes stress.
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Re: Punishment for repairing my own vehicle
[Re: Bob Stinson]
#2933165
06/14/21 12:14 PM
06/14/21 12:14 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,471 renton, Washington
ph23vo
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,471
renton, Washington
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I've got something similar going on here in WV. The witch at the DMV wouldn't let me transfer a signed WV title, and told me that i had to have the VIN verified by LEO. I looked up there rules and there's nothing about that in there, and verification is only needed if you don't have a title or the VIN tag is missing. There's a fee involved and I need to take time off work because they're only open during business hours.
I'm pretty sure their point is to squeeze me on sales tax, like they're doing to Zippy, or maybe it's a ploy to get a cop on my property to nose around. Either way I wish I would've known this was coming before I fixed most of what was wrong with it. just don't title it in your name.. sell it and move along..you never owned it..
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Re: Punishment for repairing my own vehicle
[Re: Hemi_Joel]
#2933168
06/14/21 12:15 PM
06/14/21 12:15 PM
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,415 Connecticut
Ron_M
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,415
Connecticut
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I wouldn't pay it and I wouldn't phone them again. I would send them a letter, certified, return receipt requested. The letter would state what I paid for the car, That it was an arm's length transaction at fair market value, that I paid the appropriate tax, And that there is nothing further to discuss. I would inform them that if they disagree, that the burden of proof is on them and to submit their evidence to you for consideration, and that all correspondence must be by mail. Doubtful you would ever hear back. I have been in business for 40 years, and have been constantly harassed by petty, small minded, power hungry bureaucrats. Local, state, county, federal, IRS, EPA, Dept of Labor and industry, etc. One thing I have learned is to never, ever, communicate verbally or via email. Always and only via certified mail. It diffuses their ability to enjoy the power trip, raises concern that they could be held accountable for mistakes, and all but the most hard-core will close the file and move on to an easier mark. LIKE
Common sense is a flower that does not grow in everybody's garden
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Re: Punishment for repairing my own vehicle
[Re: Ron_M]
#2933226
06/14/21 02:28 PM
06/14/21 02:28 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,388 north of coder
moparx
"Butt Crack Bob"
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"Butt Crack Bob"
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,388
north of coder
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several years back, my cousin charlie had a pretty nice 55 chevy. he traded it even, with a guy that had a 34 ford coupe with, what was thought to be, a blown engine. [that turned out to be only a couple of bent pushrods.] both cars were about equal in value, with charlie's 55 being a nicer car overall. the guys went to the notary to change titles, pictures were taken to prove each car's condition, and each guy signed affidavits saying this was a straight across even trade with no money changing hands. well, a few months go by, and charlie gets a letter from PENNDOT saying in effect, we want tax money. so just to respond to the letter, he went to the notary used in the original transaction. that guy came up with a couple of forms to sign, and charlie then declared he paid $100.00 for the 34. he sent in $6.00 tax along with a copy of the original PENNDOT letter and the forms the notary came up with, and never heard another peep from harrisburg. like the famous movie quote : "it's all about the benjamin's !"...............
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Re: Punishment for repairing my own vehicle
[Re: ph23vo]
#2933228
06/14/21 02:40 PM
06/14/21 02:40 PM
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Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 744 Almost Heaven
Bob Stinson
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 744
Almost Heaven
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I've got something similar going on here in WV. The witch at the DMV wouldn't let me transfer a signed WV title, and told me that i had to have the VIN verified by LEO. I looked up there rules and there's nothing about that in there, and verification is only needed if you don't have a title or the VIN tag is missing. There's a fee involved and I need to take time off work because they're only open during business hours.
I'm pretty sure their point is to squeeze me on sales tax, like they're doing to Zippy, or maybe it's a ploy to get a cop on my property to nose around. Either way I wish I would've known this was coming before I fixed most of what was wrong with it. just don't title it in your name.. sell it and move along..you never owned it.. So what do you do when you buy something and want to keep it? It's bad enough that they charge me a tax every year on things I already own and paid sales tax on. Making up the rules as they go is what has me spun up about the whole thing.
69 road runner A12 ex-racer 71 Duster w/ a 400
Shiny paint causes stress.
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Re: Punishment for repairing my own vehicle
[Re: Bob Stinson]
#2933402
06/14/21 11:37 PM
06/14/21 11:37 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,555 Freeport IL USA
poorboy
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,555
Freeport IL USA
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I've got something similar going on here in WV. The witch at the DMV wouldn't let me transfer a signed WV title, and told me that i had to have the VIN verified by LEO. I looked up there rules and there's nothing about that in there, and verification is only needed if you don't have a title or the VIN tag is missing. There's a fee involved and I need to take time off work because they're only open during business hours.
I'm pretty sure their point is to squeeze me on sales tax, like they're doing to Zippy, or maybe it's a ploy to get a cop on my property to nose around. Either way I wish I would've known this was coming before I fixed most of what was wrong with it. just don't title it in your name.. sell it and move along..you never owned it.. So what do you do when you buy something and want to keep it? It's bad enough that they charge me a tax every year on things I already own and paid sales tax on. Making up the rules as they go is what has me spun up about the whole thing. When I bought my 49, I had pictures of it in as bought condition. Then I transferred the title into my name and paid the tax due on the $600 purchase. After I received the title to the 49 with my name on it, I started working on it. If the State come back with wanting more money, I still have the picture proof of the as bought condition. I've played in this movie before. I have to wonder if some of this additional revenue they want may be based on what we buy the insurance coverage for. IL is a required insurance state. I'm pretty sure my insurance sends them info on my coverage. If I have a Hagerty coverage on that 49 I say I paid $600 for with a value of $20,000, some bureaucrat might say, look, this guy has this vehicle covered for 20 G and he said he paid $600 for it 2 years ago, He must have underpaid the tax on it...
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Re: Punishment for repairing my own vehicle
[Re: W.I.N. Racing]
#2949979
08/03/21 11:51 AM
08/03/21 11:51 AM
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Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 427 Waterford MI
6PACKB
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 427
Waterford MI
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What are the actual repercussions of telling them to pound sand? If it is indeed a SALES tax you owe some percentage of that nothing more. If they charge you more, it is not a sales tax but and transaction fee. I had the same experience. My notice came, several months after purchasing in 2018, from a government official noting that "Michigan State law states the tax owed is on the amount paid or actual value, which ever is greater" SOS stated the vehicle was worth more than double what I paid. I was able to get an actual receipt as I purchased it from my employer. I also was able to get a written appraisal from a dealer noting what it would have been worth pre-repair without to much hassle. I ended up owing a bit more tax, but not what they initially requested As far as repercussions, your dealing with the Secretary of State (DMV) they can void your registration, suspend your license, garnish your tax return...
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Re: Punishment for repairing my own vehicle
[Re: 6PACKB]
#2950106
08/03/21 06:26 PM
08/03/21 06:26 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,844 S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
OP
I Live Here
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OP
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,844
S.E. Michigan
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Agreed 100% Jon, Secretary of State is nothing to mess with.
In times like these sometimes it's best to make it go away as easily as possible, drop it, get on with life, and call it a lesson learned.
....being me, I did write "THEFT" in the memo area of the check, and sent a letter explaining this did not constitute an admission of guilt, but only a lack of desire to waste time on the issue.
Take care.
Rich H.
Esse Quam Videri
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Re: Punishment for repairing my own vehicle
[Re: ZIPPY]
#2950247
08/03/21 11:16 PM
08/03/21 11:16 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,861 albany ny
05dakota
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,861
albany ny
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if people wernt putting down they paid 500 for 5000 plus veh\icles we wouldnt be here
5549 post on old board
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Re: Punishment for repairing my own vehicle
[Re: 05dakota]
#2950252
08/03/21 11:46 PM
08/03/21 11:46 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,489 Minnesota
Hemi_Joel
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,489
Minnesota
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if people wernt putting down they paid 500 for 5000 plus veh\icles we wouldnt be here Well, if we're going to go down that path, if the greedy government workers and politicians weren't fleecing the citizens every time they buy and sell a vehicle, people wouldn't be understating the value.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/boeexFms.jpg[/img]31 Plymouth Coupe, 392 Hemi, T56 magnum RS23J71 RS27J77 RP23J71 RO23J71 WM21J8A I don't regret the things I've done. I only regret the things I didn't do. "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something. ~ Plato"
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