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2007 Diesel Fuel #29431 09/02/06 01:19 AM 09/02/06 01:19 AM
Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 2,644 North Carolina sasquatch OP master
sasquatch OP master Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 2,644 North Carolina	OK Stupid question time! When I am filling up my CTD these days and trying not to watch the dollars evaporate from my wallet, I have seen all these signs saying that it is low sulfur fuel and that it is not to be used in 2007 or newer trucks. Yeah, I know why but exactly where are the guys who own 2007 trucks getting their fuel??? Are there going to be different pumps? Anybody? I am sure I will feel dumb when someone explains this but enquiring minds can't sleep anyway.Todd www.mopartsracing.com

Re: 2007 Diesel Fuel [Re: sasquatch] #29432 09/02/06 02:48 AM 09/02/06 02:48 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,773 Candler, NC Roughrdr master
Roughrdr master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,773 Candler, NC	The fuel you are pumping may be LSD, as not all of it is out of the system yet. Gonna take awhile to get it out of the pipelines and tanks. also 2007 models are supposed to be run on ULSD, not the old diesel (LSD or low sulphur Diesel) But soon I believe the only place to get LSD is out of the country. Other than that, I haven't a clue. Trying to snooze here as well. Chains of habit - too light to be felt until they are too heavy to be broken

Re: 2007 Diesel Fuel [Re: Roughrdr] #29433 09/02/06 08:25 AM 09/02/06 08:25 AM
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 6,710 KY 65pacecar master
65pacecar master Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 6,710 KY	Will the older diesels do okay on the ULSD? How will it affect their mileage and power? Also, does the ULSD have any of the lubricants in it to protect the pumps? I know the old diesel fuel did, but in the last few years the lubricant package in the LSD was somewhat stripped from diesel and it was some of the cause of pump failures from all three (Cummins, Duramax and PS), I know the VP44 had a weak LP that caused most of their failures though.

Re: 2007 Diesel Fuel [Re: sasquatch] #29434 09/02/06 09:05 AM 09/02/06 09:05 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,062 Fort DODGE, Ioway O origcharger master
origcharger master O Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,062 Fort DODGE, Ioway	Quote: When I am filling up my CTD these days and trying not to watch the dollars evaporate from my wallet, I have seen all these signs saying that it is low sulfur fuel and that it is not to be used in 2007 or newer trucks. Yeah, I know why but exactly where are the guys who own 2007 trucks getting their fuel??? Are there going to be different pumps? Anybody? Those signs should disappear after October, when all on road diesel fuel sold must be ULSD in preparation for the 2007 emission standard engines. AFAIK trucks built after January 1 2007 must have the 2007 emission standard engines. Not sure how Dodge and GM are handling it, but Ford will not be putting the 2007 emission engines in 2007 model year trucks, but instead will begin the 2008 model year in January with the new engines. MOPARTS ALERT!: Chris Pugh aka gabodyman of Dalton, Georgia, cashed my $140 money order on 4-16-02 never sent parts. On 3-19-07 he agreed to return my money; "april 9, it will be in the mail by that date""will do as promised. chris" Still no parts and no money!

Re: 2007 Diesel Fuel [Re: origcharger] #29435 09/02/06 10:38 AM 09/02/06 10:38 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,135 Kingsburg Calif. Quikshft master
Quikshft master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,135 Kingsburg Calif.	I thought I read something on MSN just a day or so ago (can't find it now) that said YOU are responsible to make sure you're pumping ultra low sulfer fuel in your truck if that's what it requires. The article said pump nozzles at the stations will be the same size (leads me to believe that both grades may be available simultaneously) and also that a single tank of low sulfer fuel will certainly damage the emmision system of the 2007 diesel engines designed to run on Ultra Low stuff.

Re: 2007 Diesel Fuel [Re: Quikshft] #29436 09/02/06 11:13 AM 09/02/06 11:13 AM
Joined: May 2003 Posts: 2,414 St. Croix, US Virgin Islands D David_in_St_Croi top fuel
David_in_St_Croi top fuel D Joined: May 2003 Posts: 2,414 St. Croix, US Virgin Islands	Quote: But soon I believe the only place to get LSD is out of the country. I seriously doubt that, I am sure it can be readily found most anywhere in the country, just need to know who to ask. https://www.facebook.com/THENEWCDRA Proud member of the liberal scientific elite

Re: 2007 Diesel Fuel [Re: David_in_St_Croi] #29437 09/02/06 11:59 AM 09/02/06 11:59 AM
Joined: Oct 2004 Posts: 8,165 Left Coast B BobR master
BobR master B Joined: Oct 2004 Posts: 8,165 Left Coast	They began selling ultra low diesel just yesterday here in Ca. It's my understanding that as of yesterday all service stations that provide diesel HAD to have the ultra low available. -Bob

Re: 2007 Diesel Fuel [Re: BobR] #29438 09/02/06 12:37 PM 09/02/06 12:37 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,976 Chilliwack B.C. Canada R RUNCHARGER I Live Here
RUNCHARGER I Live Here R Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,976 Chilliwack B.C. Canada	We were supposed to change over here in the fall. However the oil companies have been supplying the ULSD for four months now without broadcasting it to the public. Sheldon

Re: 2007 Diesel Fuel [Re: 65pacecar] #29439 09/02/06 01:35 PM 09/02/06 01:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 17,844 S.E. Michigan ZIPPY I Live Here
ZIPPY I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 17,844 S.E. Michigan	Quote: Will the older diesels do okay on the ULSD? How will it affect their mileage and power? Also, does the ULSD have any of the lubricants in it to protect the pumps? Being in the market for a used CTD, I would really like some info on the above also....

Re: 2007 Diesel Fuel [Re: BobR] #29440 09/02/06 01:35 PM 09/02/06 01:35 PM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	Quote: They began selling ultra low diesel just yesterday here in Ca. It's my understanding that as of yesterday all service stations that provide diesel HAD to have the ultra low available. -Bob Actually you have been getting the ULSD for awhile.. They may have just removed the stickers but that because they had to wait for the EPA to test the pumps and certify that they met ULSD specs(15PPM).. The refinery where I work has been producing ULSD only since June 1st..

Re: 2007 Diesel Fuel [Re: ZIPPY] #29441 09/02/06 01:44 PM 09/02/06 01:44 PM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	Quote: Quote: Will the older diesels do okay on the ULSD? How will it affect their mileage and power? Also, does the ULSD have any of the lubricants in it to protect the pumps? Being in the market for a used CTD, I would really like some info on the above also.... The older trucks will run fine on the ULSD as it has lubricity improvers added to it.. One thing you need to keep an eye on is the fuel lines and seals as the ULSD may make them shrink and leak.. Also mileage and power will probably decrease because the ULSD has less energy than LSD..

Re: 2007 Diesel Fuel #29442 09/02/06 06:19 PM 09/02/06 06:19 PM
Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 2,644 North Carolina sasquatch OP master
sasquatch OP master Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 2,644 North Carolina	Wonderful!! www.mopartsracing.com

Re: 2007 Diesel Fuel [Re: sasquatch] #29443 09/02/06 09:42 PM 09/02/06 09:42 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,976 Chilliwack B.C. Canada R RUNCHARGER I Live Here
RUNCHARGER I Live Here R Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,976 Chilliwack B.C. Canada	Yeah these bright boys that ram stuff down our throats figure that having a fuel that produces less energy will pollute less. I don't know how that works when you use more of this new fuel to do the same work. I noticed a big difference in mileage and power with the C-15 in the Peterbilt, using more fuel has to pollute more. Sheldon

Re: 2007 Diesel Fuel #29444 09/02/06 09:46 PM 09/02/06 09:46 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,773 Candler, NC Roughrdr master
Roughrdr master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,773 Candler, NC	Quote: Quote: Quote: Will the older diesels do okay on the ULSD? How will it affect their mileage and power? Also, does the ULSD have any of the lubricants in it to protect the pumps? Being in the market for a used CTD, I would really like some info on the above also.... The older trucks will run fine on the ULSD as it has lubricity improvers added to it.. One thing you need to keep an eye on is the fuel lines and seals as the ULSD may make them shrink and leak.. Also mileage and power will probably decrease because the ULSD has less energy than LSD.. I know that was true when the introduced the Low sulphur blends, but most newer vehicles shoudn't have this problem as the seals are no longer soley rubber. This is what I gathered from info when I was at the cummins and cat plants talking to some guys who should now best I think. Chains of habit - too light to be felt until they are too heavy to be broken

Re: 2007 Diesel Fuel #29445 09/02/06 11:05 PM 09/02/06 11:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 815 Alexandria, NJ WayneM super stock
WayneM super stock Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 815 Alexandria, NJ	Quote: Quote: They began selling ultra low diesel just yesterday here in Ca. It's my understanding that as of yesterday all service stations that provide diesel HAD to have the ultra low available. -Bob Actually you have been getting the ULSD for awhile.. They may have just removed the stickers but that because they had to wait for the EPA to test the pumps and certify that they met ULSD specs(15PPM).. The refinery where I work has been producing ULSD only since June 1st.. Hey Warlock, do you know the exact level of sulphur thats going into ULSD? I know the end result is to be 15PPM, but I read in a trade magazine that, because of the residue in the pipeline, the refined product has more like 5PPM at the refinery-it is true? The TDR (magazine) is a good resource and ally of the Ram CTD owner. They are encouraging the use of a lubricity improver to be on the safe side, and to use a new 7 micron fuel filter fleetguard has brought out for '98.5 and up CTD's I read that this new blend will dislodge a lot of junk in the pipeline and in your fuel system, so stepped up filter changes are recomended. There will be a 2007.5 Ram with a 6.7L engine. This is the truck that will need ULSD. The 6.7 is a stroked 5.9 with loads of emmission controls on it. I'm glad I got my '04! 2014 Durango R/T 2004 Dodge Ram 3500 SRW SLT short quad Cummins 6 speed 1998 Dodge Durango SLT 5.2 1971 Plymouth Duster- <<<<<MOPAR SPOKEN HERE>>>>>

Re: 2007 Diesel Fuel [Re: RUNCHARGER] #29446 09/02/06 11:14 PM 09/02/06 11:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 815 Alexandria, NJ WayneM super stock
WayneM super stock Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 815 Alexandria, NJ	Quote: Yeah these bright boys that ram stuff down our throats figure that having a fuel that produces less energy will pollute less. I don't know how that works when you use more of this new fuel to do the same work. I noticed a big difference in mileage and power with the C-15 in the Peterbilt, using more fuel has to pollute more. Sheldon It's unfortunate that the new fuel causes problems like low power with older engines, but the reason newer engines are using more fuel is that electronic engine management systems can better control injection events. The when, how much ,and how often fuel is injected in one cycle has everything to do with what comes out of the exhaust. I have been told that my CTD injector sprays at 4 occasions during the compression to ignition stroke. The extra equipment needed to achieve the unrealistic goals set by the G man is why we "need" ULSD. Last edited by WayneM; 09/02/06 11:17 PM. 2014 Durango R/T 2004 Dodge Ram 3500 SRW SLT short quad Cummins 6 speed 1998 Dodge Durango SLT 5.2 1971 Plymouth Duster- <<<<<MOPAR SPOKEN HERE>>>>>

Re: 2007 Diesel Fuel [Re: sasquatch] #29447 09/03/06 12:32 AM 09/03/06 12:32 AM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 311 Mass. USA#1 hemi70 enthusiast
hemi70 enthusiast Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 311 Mass. USA#1	I was recently told that the primary reason that the ULSD fuel is required for most of the '07 vehicals is that their exhaust system is equipped with a "particulate" trap to limit the amount of soot and any other debris they emit. The LSD fuel has more sulfur than the trap can handle over extended use. Trap can clog and cause restriction. The '07 5.9 CTD is one exception to the rule (no trap) so LSD is O.K. The 6.7 cummins and the 3.0 engine that will be in the Grand Cherokee (early '07) have the trap. Gary.

Re: 2007 Diesel Fuel [Re: RUNCHARGER] #29448 09/03/06 06:38 AM 09/03/06 06:38 AM
Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 1,509 Polson, MT IronYuppie super gas
IronYuppie super gas Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 1,509 Polson, MT	Fuel mileage and pollution aren't the same thing. A vehicle without proper emissions controls creates a lot of pollution, regardless of how many miles per gallon it gets. The actual fuel savings will come as more diesel passenger cars are produced -- which previously weren't possible because they flunked many emissions standards.

Re: 2007 Diesel Fuel [Re: IronYuppie] #29449 09/03/06 08:00 AM 09/03/06 08:00 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 14,610 Not2farfromNashville, TN R Rug_Trucker I Live Here
Rug_Trucker I Live Here R Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 14,610 Not2farfromNashville, TN	All I know is biodoozle is suppossed to clean out the crap in your lines and tanks. You need to carry filters when you switch. Does it really smell like French fries? "The only thing to do for triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" "NUNQUAM NON PARATUS!"

Re: 2007 Diesel Fuel [Re: Rug_Trucker] #29450 09/03/06 09:24 AM 09/03/06 09:24 AM
Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 586 UP F finn mopar
finn mopar F Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 586 UP	Biodiesel is ok up to 5% (B5)as it is largely indistinguishable from D2. Beyond that you're on your own, as there are no ASTM standards for Biodiesel stability. In fact there's no agreed upon test STANDARD at all in the US for stability with Biodiesel. Caveat Emptor. European Biodiesel comes primarily from rapeseed, while ours is mostly soy based, although there is talk of building a giant refinery in Canada to refine poultry fat into biodiesel. (actually, I think NREL says the animal based Bio is more stable). The rapeseed stuff does have a (European) stability test, but the test doesn't work on the soy based stuff we get. The B20 stories about it cleaning the gunk from the system and plugging filters are in fact true: The higher the concentration of bio, the more likely that you will have filter problems. Cummins and DCX have ok'd B20 for use in controlled fleets, where the fuel quality is closely controlled. Otherwise B5 is the limit. Bio fuels like B5 actually have better lubricity than normal D2. The new ULSD D2 comes with a HIGHER minimum lubricity standard than the old D2 LSD. This new standard was driven by the fuel system and engine manufacturers (International, Cummins, GM, Bosch, Siemens, etc)to meet the requirements of the newer high pressure common rail fuel systems. Lubricity with the old LSD was generally ok, but there was very wide variability across the country, depending on the base stock and refinery process used to make Diesel. Lots of our fuel has been coming from Canada and processed by Hydrocracking, which yields a very low lubricity and leads to subsequent high fuel pump failure rates. The new standards insure that a Higher minimum lubricity, although not as good as Europe, will be out there. Additives to improve lubricity are now added at the refinery and additional mouse milk additions at the pump are unnecessary with ULSD. Energy content of the new ULSD is around 1% worse than the old LSD. Real world (controlled) fleet tests reported by the industry indicate the 1% is lost in data scatter. The energy content loss is believed to be due to the hydrocracking stripping the long chain HC molecules along with the sulfur removal. The Oil industry is working on this. As to fuel system leaks, the problem is that the different types of rubbers in the fuel system react to the aeromatics in the fuel. All rubbers take a set or swell with exposure to fuel over time. Dramatic changes in fuel aeromatics cause problems with some seal formulations, The new fuels have different aeromatic content. Newer engines shouldn't have problems as the seal materials have been upgraded by the manufacturers over the years, but if your engine is old, get ready to replace the seals. A tank or two of the old LSD won't hurt the particulate filter of an o7 Diesel, but continued use will plug it and shorten the interval between ash removal service. LSD will not be available after this fall when the conversion to ULSD is complete. Off road (red dyed) high sulfur diesel will be out there for a couple of more years, but eventually that will go away too. Finn

Re: 2007 Diesel Fuel [Re: finn] #29451 09/03/06 09:28 AM 09/03/06 09:28 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 14,610 Not2farfromNashville, TN R Rug_Trucker I Live Here
Rug_Trucker I Live Here R Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 14,610 Not2farfromNashville, TN	YYou would think a chicken fat refinery would be in "Tysonsaw" I mean Arkansas!! "The only thing to do for triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" "NUNQUAM NON PARATUS!"

Re: 2007 Diesel Fuel [Re: WayneM] #29452 09/03/06 02:41 PM 09/03/06 02:41 PM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	Quote: Hey Warlock, do you know the exact level of sulphur thats going into ULSD? I know the end result is to be 15PPM, but I read in a trade magazine that, because of the residue in the pipeline, the refined product has more like 5PPM at the refinery-it is true? Wayne I do not know for sure since I do not work in ourcude unit but have heard 8ppm.. I will ask tonight when I get to work and hopefully have you an answer in the AM..

Re: 2007 Diesel Fuel [Re: hemi70] #29453 09/03/06 08:54 PM 09/03/06 08:54 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 888 Wooster, Ohio K kpzbee super stock
kpzbee super stock K Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 888 Wooster, Ohio	Quote: I was recently told that the primary reason that the ULSD fuel is required for most of the '07 vehicals is that their exhaust system is equipped with a "particulate" trap to limit the amount of soot and any other debris they emit. The LSD fuel has more sulfur than the trap can handle over extended use. Trap can clog and cause restriction. The '07 5.9 CTD is one exception to the rule (no trap) so LSD is O.K. The 6.7 cummins and the 3.0 engine that will be in the Grand Cherokee (early '07) have the trap. Gary. That's true but starting in Jan '07, you'll see the 6.7 in the Rams. These engines have a very elaborite regeneration system in the exhaust system, that runs every 10 hrs of engine operation. When it runs, it cleans the trap out & reburns the soot. It sounds weird when it running in the regen mode but still drives fine. "It's funny how one project eventually leads (or forces) you into another one. It's really just one endless project designed to induce insanity and bankruptcy."

Re: 2007 Diesel Fuel [Re: WayneM] #29454 09/04/06 07:05 AM 09/04/06 07:05 AM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	Quote: I read in a trade magazine that, because of the residue in the pipeline, the refined product has more like 5PPM at the refinery-it is true? Wayne It leaves out plant 7.4ppm maximum but most of it is around 4

Re: 2007 Diesel Fuel #29455 09/04/06 08:43 PM 09/04/06 08:43 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 815 Alexandria, NJ WayneM super stock
WayneM super stock Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 815 Alexandria, NJ	Very interesting, Warlock. Thanks. I wonder if they'll raise it as the pipeline settles? I did a fuel sample/ drain yesterday, checking for water and the fuel still has that yellow/blueish sheen in daylight. Didn't see any water. 2014 Durango R/T 2004 Dodge Ram 3500 SRW SLT short quad Cummins 6 speed 1998 Dodge Durango SLT 5.2 1971 Plymouth Duster- <<<<<MOPAR SPOKEN HERE>>>>>

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