Re: 2007 Diesel Fuel
[Re: sasquatch]
#29432
09/02/06 02:48 AM
09/02/06 02:48 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,773 Candler, NC
Roughrdr
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,773
Candler, NC
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The fuel you are pumping may be LSD, as not all of it is out of the system yet. Gonna take awhile to get it out of the pipelines and tanks.
also 2007 models are supposed to be run on ULSD, not the old diesel (LSD or low sulphur Diesel)
But soon I believe the only place to get LSD is out of the country.
Other than that, I haven't a clue.
Trying to snooze here as well.
Chains of habit - too light to be felt until they are too heavy to be broken
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Re: 2007 Diesel Fuel
[Re: sasquatch]
#29434
09/02/06 09:05 AM
09/02/06 09:05 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,062 Fort DODGE, Ioway
origcharger
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,062
Fort DODGE, Ioway
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Quote:
When I am filling up my CTD these days and trying not to watch the dollars evaporate from my wallet, I have seen all these signs saying that it is low sulfur fuel and that it is not to be used in 2007 or newer trucks. Yeah, I know why but exactly where are the guys who own 2007 trucks getting their fuel??? Are there going to be different pumps? Anybody?
Those signs should disappear after October, when all on road diesel fuel sold must be ULSD in preparation for the 2007 emission standard engines. AFAIK trucks built after January 1 2007 must have the 2007 emission standard engines. Not sure how Dodge and GM are handling it, but Ford will not be putting the 2007 emission engines in 2007 model year trucks, but instead will begin the 2008 model year in January with the new engines.
MOPARTS ALERT!: Chris Pugh aka gabodyman of Dalton, Georgia, cashed my $140 money order on 4-16-02 never sent parts. On 3-19-07 he agreed to return my money; "april 9, it will be in the mail by that date""will do as promised. chris" Still no parts and no money!
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Re: 2007 Diesel Fuel
[Re: 65pacecar]
#29439
09/02/06 01:35 PM
09/02/06 01:35 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,844 S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,844
S.E. Michigan
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Quote:
Will the older diesels do okay on the ULSD? How will it affect their mileage and power? Also, does the ULSD have any of the lubricants in it to protect the pumps?
Being in the market for a used CTD, I would really like some info on the above also....
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Re: 2007 Diesel Fuel
[Re: BobR]
#29440
09/02/06 01:35 PM
09/02/06 01:35 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
They began selling ultra low diesel just yesterday here in Ca. It's my understanding that as of yesterday all service stations that provide diesel HAD to have the ultra low available. -Bob
Actually you have been getting the ULSD for awhile.. They may have just removed the stickers but that because they had to wait for the EPA to test the pumps and certify that they met ULSD specs(15PPM).. The refinery where I work has been producing ULSD only since June 1st..
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Re: 2007 Diesel Fuel
[Re: ZIPPY]
#29441
09/02/06 01:44 PM
09/02/06 01:44 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Quote:
Will the older diesels do okay on the ULSD? How will it affect their mileage and power? Also, does the ULSD have any of the lubricants in it to protect the pumps?
Being in the market for a used CTD, I would really like some info on the above also....
The older trucks will run fine on the ULSD as it has lubricity improvers added to it.. One thing you need to keep an eye on is the fuel lines and seals as the ULSD may make them shrink and leak.. Also mileage and power will probably decrease because the ULSD has less energy than LSD..
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Re: 2007 Diesel Fuel
[Re: sasquatch]
#29447
09/03/06 12:32 AM
09/03/06 12:32 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 311 Mass. USA#1
hemi70
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 311
Mass. USA#1
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I was recently told that the primary reason that the ULSD fuel is required for most of the '07 vehicals is that their exhaust system is equipped with a "particulate" trap to limit the amount of soot and any other debris they emit. The LSD fuel has more sulfur than the trap can handle over extended use. Trap can clog and cause restriction. The '07 5.9 CTD is one exception to the rule (no trap) so LSD is O.K. The 6.7 cummins and the 3.0 engine that will be in the Grand Cherokee (early '07) have the trap. Gary.
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Re: 2007 Diesel Fuel
[Re: IronYuppie]
#29449
09/03/06 08:00 AM
09/03/06 08:00 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,610 Not2farfromNashville, TN
Rug_Trucker
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,610
Not2farfromNashville, TN
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All I know is biodoozle is suppossed to clean out the crap in your lines and tanks. You need to carry filters when you switch. Does it really smell like French fries?
"The only thing to do for triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"
"NUNQUAM NON PARATUS!"
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Re: 2007 Diesel Fuel
[Re: Rug_Trucker]
#29450
09/03/06 09:24 AM
09/03/06 09:24 AM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 586 UP
finn
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 586
UP
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Biodiesel is ok up to 5% (B5)as it is largely indistinguishable from D2. Beyond that you're on your own, as there are no ASTM standards for Biodiesel stability. In fact there's no agreed upon test STANDARD at all in the US for stability with Biodiesel. Caveat Emptor. European Biodiesel comes primarily from rapeseed, while ours is mostly soy based, although there is talk of building a giant refinery in Canada to refine poultry fat into biodiesel. (actually, I think NREL says the animal based Bio is more stable). The rapeseed stuff does have a (European) stability test, but the test doesn't work on the soy based stuff we get.
The B20 stories about it cleaning the gunk from the system and plugging filters are in fact true: The higher the concentration of bio, the more likely that you will have filter problems. Cummins and DCX have ok'd B20 for use in controlled fleets, where the fuel quality is closely controlled. Otherwise B5 is the limit.
Bio fuels like B5 actually have better lubricity than normal D2. The new ULSD D2 comes with a HIGHER minimum lubricity standard than the old D2 LSD. This new standard was driven by the fuel system and engine manufacturers (International, Cummins, GM, Bosch, Siemens, etc)to meet the requirements of the newer high pressure common rail fuel systems. Lubricity with the old LSD was generally ok, but there was very wide variability across the country, depending on the base stock and refinery process used to make Diesel.
Lots of our fuel has been coming from Canada and processed by Hydrocracking, which yields a very low lubricity and leads to subsequent high fuel pump failure rates. The new standards insure that a Higher minimum lubricity, although not as good as Europe, will be out there. Additives to improve lubricity are now added at the refinery and additional mouse milk additions at the pump are unnecessary with ULSD.
Energy content of the new ULSD is around 1% worse than the old LSD. Real world (controlled) fleet tests reported by the industry indicate the 1% is lost in data scatter. The energy content loss is believed to be due to the hydrocracking stripping the long chain HC molecules along with the sulfur removal. The Oil industry is working on this.
As to fuel system leaks, the problem is that the different types of rubbers in the fuel system react to the aeromatics in the fuel. All rubbers take a set or swell with exposure to fuel over time. Dramatic changes in fuel aeromatics cause problems with some seal formulations, The new fuels have different aeromatic content.
Newer engines shouldn't have problems as the seal materials have been upgraded by the manufacturers over the years, but if your engine is old, get ready to replace the seals.
A tank or two of the old LSD won't hurt the particulate filter of an o7 Diesel, but continued use will plug it and shorten the interval between ash removal service. LSD will not be available after this fall when the conversion to ULSD is complete.
Off road (red dyed) high sulfur diesel will be out there for a couple of more years, but eventually that will go away too.
Finn
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