Timing cover for a roller cam
#2920180
05/08/21 09:02 PM
05/08/21 09:02 PM
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 64 Medford, OR
carrman
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 64
Medford, OR
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I've got a voodoo roller coming for my 440, and I'm trying to figure out the front cover issue and dealing with the flex from a steel front cover. bought an Indy cast aluminum one only to find out it won't work with a factory crank dampener. Guess the jokes on me. Oh well, guess i needed some wall art. Any way what are the recommendations for a front cover, and if it's to use the stock piece, does anyone have the measurements of the metal they used to beef up that cover and eliminate flex?
Last edited by carrman; 05/08/21 09:03 PM.
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Re: Timing cover for a roller cam
[Re: carrman]
#2920195
05/08/21 10:04 PM
05/08/21 10:04 PM
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 289 St.Pete,Florida
lancer493
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 289
St.Pete,Florida
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Been down this road just recently. Not sure why you would want to run a stock balancer on a high performance engine with a roller cam in the first place unless it is a very mild hyd. roller for a mild street motor. Having a big roller cam (solid) I,too, opted for the Indy cast aluminum cover to support a cam thrust button. ATI offers a SFI balancer to fit with an Indy cast aluminum timing cover.Also, if you have an aftermarket crankshaft, you would be wise to mike the cranks balancer snout diameter accurately to furnish them with the rest of your relevent info. This is because a lot of aftermarket cranks come with snouts a little bigger in diameter than stock specs.If they build you a balancer, they can hone the ID to the correct size for your crank for about $40, ensuring ease of installation and the correct fit. ATI's tech dept. is very customer oriented and easy to deal with.I am very satisfied with this set-up.Give them a call, fast service,too. Good luck Bill
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Re: Timing cover for a roller cam
[Re: lancer493]
#2920199
05/08/21 10:10 PM
05/08/21 10:10 PM
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 64 Medford, OR
carrman
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 64
Medford, OR
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Been down this road just recently. Not sure why you would want to run a stock balancer on a high performance engine with a roller cam in the first place unless it is a very mild hyd. roller for a mild street motor. Having a big roller cam (solid) I,too, opted for the Indy cast aluminum cover to support a cam thrust button. ATI offers a SFI balancer to fit with an Indy cast aluminum timing cover.Also, if you have an aftermarket crankshaft, you would be wise to mike the cranks balancer snout diameter accurately to furnish them with the rest of your relevent info. This is because a lot of aftermarket cranks come with snouts a little bigger in diameter than stock specs.If they build you a balancer, they can hone the ID to the correct size for your crank for about $40, ensuring ease of installation and the correct fit. ATI's tech dept. is very customer oriented and easy to deal with.I am very satisfied with this set-up.Give them a call, fast service,too. Good luck Bill Factory 440 crank, a warm street motor, nothing radical.
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Re: Timing cover for a roller cam
[Re: carrman]
#2920240
05/08/21 11:50 PM
05/08/21 11:50 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,074 Mooresburg, Tn
'72CudaRacer
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,074
Mooresburg, Tn
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I had to deal with this problem last year on a customers new engine. He wanted an Indy cast alum cover. First problem was his ATI balancer wouldn't fit (balancer hit the cover). We got the correct offset ATI balancer, then the cam button set out too far (the cover would not reach the block). I had gotten a real nice cam button that I wanted to use from Todd Marsh (I think it was a Diamond brand, 3 bolt cam retainer & button combo, w/ inverted torx head bolts. Real nice part). I elected to machine the face of the cam gear approx .025" to get the clearance that I needed. Worked out fine, but this was WAY harder that it needed to be. Brand X has many different options that just bolt on. Also, on a different customers RB engine this year, I used a teflon button (made by Comp Cams) and a Milodon steel cover. I had to file the button to fit, not hard, but time consuming.. This really shouldn't be this difficult.
Brian
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Re: Timing cover for a roller cam
[Re: carrman]
#2920279
05/09/21 08:19 AM
05/09/21 08:19 AM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,324 Ohio
jlatessa
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,324
Ohio
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Here's what we did on our 512 roller. 1/8 " round steel reinforcement welded to stock cover.
Inexpensive and effective, used a roller button inside. Slight interference fit to back of AL. pump housing, works great to eliminate flex.
Joe
PS, If needed, you can sand a few thousands from the back of the pump housing to get exactly the interference you desire.
Last edited by jlatessa; 05/09/21 08:48 AM.
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Re: Timing cover for a roller cam
[Re: Stanton]
#2920301
05/09/21 09:21 AM
05/09/21 09:21 AM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 9,030 Ontario, Canada
Stanton
Don't question me!
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Don't question me!
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 9,030
Ontario, Canada
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Slight interference fit to back of AL. pump housing, works great to eliminate flex. I don't like this because it just negates all your work of setting the clearance. And if that 1/8" plate isn't enough to eliminate cam movement I don't know what is !! Keep in mind the ONLY thing that drives the cam forward is the oil pump resistance transferred though the drive gear.
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Re: Timing cover for a roller cam
[Re: '72CudaRacer]
#2920339
05/09/21 11:14 AM
05/09/21 11:14 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,199 Oregon
AndyF
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,199
Oregon
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I had to deal with this problem last year on a customers new engine. He wanted an Indy cast alum cover. First problem was his ATI balancer wouldn't fit (balancer hit the cover). We got the correct offset ATI balancer, then the cam button set out too far (the cover would not reach the block). I had gotten a real nice cam button that I wanted to use from Todd Marsh (I think it was a Diamond brand, 3 bolt cam retainer & button combo, w/ inverted torx head bolts. Real nice part). I elected to machine the face of the cam gear approx .025" to get the clearance that I needed. Worked out fine, but this was WAY harder that it needed to be. Brand X has many different options that just bolt on. Also, on a different customers RB engine this year, I used a teflon button (made by Comp Cams) and a Milodon steel cover. I had to file the button to fit, not hard, but time consuming.. This really shouldn't be this difficult.
Brian It isn't that difficult, you just bought the wrong parts. I've put a lot of big block engines together with my billet cover and matching button. Indy didn't bother to finish their design. It doesn't fit under a stock water pump, it doesn't fit with some dampers, it doesn't have a TDC pointer, it doesn't have an easy way to set the cam thrust spacing, etc.
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Re: Timing cover for a roller cam
[Re: carrman]
#2920340
05/09/21 11:20 AM
05/09/21 11:20 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,199 Oregon
AndyF
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,199
Oregon
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I've got a voodoo roller coming for my 440, and I'm trying to figure out the front cover issue and dealing with the flex from a steel front cover. bought an Indy cast aluminum one only to find out it won't work with a factory crank dampener. Guess the jokes on me. Oh well, guess i needed some wall art. Any way what are the recommendations for a front cover, and if it's to use the stock piece, does anyone have the measurements of the metal they used to beef up that cover and eliminate flex? Yep, lots of people find out the hard way that the Indy cover doesn't work with factory dampers or with the stock type water pump housing. Did you try the water pump housing or did you not get that far? What about the TDC pointer, did you see that there wasn't one? Sell the Indy cover to a race guy who has an aftermarket damper and an electric water pump. That is what it is designed for. If you want a good cover that is designed to work with a roller cam and fits with stock parts then buy one of mine.
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Re: Timing cover for a roller cam
[Re: carrman]
#2920379
05/09/21 12:34 PM
05/09/21 12:34 PM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,318 State of confusion
Thumperdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,318
State of confusion
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Stock cover here for several years with no extra support or anything welded on the cover but I run an ISKY rollerized button slightly preloaded to the cover.....
72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
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Re: Timing cover for a roller cam
[Re: Stanton]
#2920423
05/09/21 02:14 PM
05/09/21 02:14 PM
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 64 Medford, OR
carrman
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 64
Medford, OR
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So OP, which cam did you pick?? Lunati Voodoo: https://www.lunatipower.com/voodoo-retro-fit-hydraulic-roller-cam-chrysler-361-440-270-278.htmlOld cam Comp XE268H Advertised Intake Duration: 268 Advertised Exhaust Duration: 280 Intake Duration at .050 Inch Lift: 224 Exhaust Duration at .050 Inch Lift: 230 Intake Valve Lift: 0.477 Exhaust Valve Lift: 0.48 Lobe Separation: 110 Intake Centerline 106 New Cam Lunati 20230711 Advertised Intake Duration: 270 Advertised Exhaust Duration: 278 Intake Duration at .050 Inch Lift: 219 Exhaust Duration at .050 Inch Lift: 227 Intake Valve Lift: 0.515 Exhaust Valve Lift: 0.530 Lobe Separation: 110 Intake Center line: 116
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Re: Timing cover for a roller cam
[Re: Thumperdart]
#2920424
05/09/21 02:14 PM
05/09/21 02:14 PM
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 938
birdtracker
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 938
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Stock cover here for several years with no extra support or anything welded on the cover but I run an ISKY rollerized button slightly preloaded to the cover..... this ^^^^ Birdtracker
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Re: Timing cover for a roller cam
[Re: Stanton]
#2920448
05/09/21 03:16 PM
05/09/21 03:16 PM
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 64 Medford, OR
carrman
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 64
Medford, OR
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Preload is scary, even with the stock cover and roller button. Unless your timing sprocket is a torrington bearing type, you can't get enough lube between the sprocket and block. You need "some" clearance. This I know from first-hand experience. Bought one of these: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/clo-9-3525tx9
Last edited by carrman; 05/09/21 03:18 PM.
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