car carrier ship cut up
#2904573
03/31/21 12:05 PM
03/31/21 12:05 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,671
Andrewh
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The scale is amazing to me. That truck in the lower right is a full size ram truck. This ship turned on its side mid channel and got pushed onto a sandbar so it didn't block the channel. they are cutting it up now, and this is only 1 chuck of it https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a34847785/capsized-cargo-ship-salvage-watch/
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Re: car carrier ship cut up
[Re: topside]
#2904578
03/31/21 12:16 PM
03/31/21 12:16 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 43,541 Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy
Rhinodart
Rhinotruck
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Rhinotruck
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A real BIG reason why things should be made in the country they are supposed to sell in...
The funny thing about science is that if you change one miniscule parameter you change the entire outcome to the way you want it.
JB Rhinehart, Realist
A-Body's RULE!
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Re: car carrier ship cut up
[Re: Andrewh]
#2904588
03/31/21 12:44 PM
03/31/21 12:44 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696 Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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Bitopia
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Judging by the numbers, I guess it would take too long to tie everything down.
They said 4000 cars on it at the time, but it could hold 7000. So is the lack of tying the payload (cars) down a contributor to why the ship capsized in the first place? So the rust stain is the water line marking the capsized immersion?
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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Re: car carrier ship cut up
[Re: jcc]
#2904597
03/31/21 12:57 PM
03/31/21 12:57 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,977 new jersey usa
11secdart
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I have been following it on Youtube, although its a shame it happened I find the whole thing fascinating. I might be wrong but the pickup hanging out in the picture looks like a Ram.
Last edited by 11secdart; 03/31/21 01:00 PM.
68 Dart 410 / 904 92 D150 original owner 21 Ram 1500 Quad Cab, Big Horn , Hemi ,4x4 23 Audi Q5 16 Honda HRV
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Re: car carrier ship cut up
[Re: jcc]
#2904646
03/31/21 03:25 PM
03/31/21 03:25 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,671
Andrewh
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"couldn't save it" once the cars began to move? A simple center divider/guard rail on each level, might have saved the whole ship? it is questionable if the cars had moved by the time it was "too late". the tipping point on a ship that size, may not be far enough to cause "sliding" like that. The investigation isn't complete, but yeah, they said they accidently shifted the center of gravity too high by the change in cargo. They also left a door open that helped contribute to the flooding and being unable to correct. It sounded like the start of fish tailing to me. Tried to go one way, over corrected to go the other and didn't center the wheel soon enough and bam, gone. Because they were so close to shore and other ships, was the only reason they are all alive. They basically said if it had happened out at sea, no one would have known what happened.
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Re: car carrier ship cut up
[Re: Andrewh]
#2904714
03/31/21 08:05 PM
03/31/21 08:05 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696 Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
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Bitopia
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"couldn't save it" once the cars began to move? A simple center divider/guard rail on each level, might have saved the whole ship? it is questionable if the cars had moved by the time it was "too late". the tipping point on a ship that size, may not be far enough to cause "sliding" like that. The investigation isn't complete, but yeah, they said they accidentally shifted the center of gravity too high by the change in cargo. They also left a door open that helped contribute to the flooding and being unable to correct. It sounded like the start of fish tailing to me. Tried to go one way, over corrected to go the other and didn't center the wheel soon enough and bam, gone. Because they were so close to shore and other ships, was the only reason they are all alive. They basically said if it had happened out at sea, no one would have known what happened. A lot of merit to your points, how about one of the car steel decks got wet. oily, Antifreeze, or the loaders left the cars in neutral/no brakes, and a snowball effect began with cars moving, unbeknownst to the ship operators who were dialing in the "normal" expected steering correction, and not understanding why things were not improving? Of course all speculative and without any proof, and likely will never be known for certain, which might be the goal of those who are to blame. Maybe the pilot has steering dyslexia? I would have thought the righting moment with a ship with this intended purpose, would have a large safety factor, but then, what do I know?
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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Re: car carrier ship cut up
[Re: jcc]
#2904717
03/31/21 08:11 PM
03/31/21 08:11 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 15,855 Central Florida
larrymopar360
Stud Muffin
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Stud Muffin
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Central Florida
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Wow, I'm sure there's going to be plenty of blame to go around since there will be a HUGE financial loss.
Facts are stubborn things.
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Re: car carrier ship cut up
[Re: larrymopar360]
#2904734
03/31/21 08:56 PM
03/31/21 08:56 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696 Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
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I noticed something else not yet noted, I found interesting in the OP's posted pic, there is not a single human visible, I assume underscoring the risk in this operation.
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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Re: car carrier ship cut up
[Re: Pacnorthcuda]
#2904833
04/01/21 07:51 AM
04/01/21 07:51 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,671
Andrewh
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A real BIG reason why things should be made in the country they are supposed to sell in... Our EPA doesn’t understand that. I am not sure what that means. As I understand it, these were made here and being shipped to the middle east for sale. if you are saying kia, mercedes and ram should open plants in the middle east, I am not sure how that helps us.
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Re: car carrier ship cut up
[Re: jcc]
#2904862
04/01/21 10:26 AM
04/01/21 10:26 AM
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 12,234 Looking for a way out of Middl...
IMGTX
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Posts: 12,234
Looking for a way out of Middl...
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Judging by the numbers, I guess it would take too long to tie everything down.
They said 4000 cars on it at the time, but it could hold 7000. So is the lack of tying the payload (cars) down a contributor to why the ship capsized in the first place? So the rust stain is the water line marking the capsized immersion? Yes and Yes. I read a story on it and they loaded the cars on the upper levels while removing cars from the lower levels. Ship got top heavy and the tipped over mid trip. It has been capsized for about a year IIRC, so that brown is the water line after flipping on it's side.
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Re: car carrier ship cut up
[Re: jcc]
#2905067
04/01/21 07:59 PM
04/01/21 07:59 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 858 Southeast Pa.
SALEM1912
super stock
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I noticed something else not yet noted, I found interesting in the OP's posted pic, there is not a single human visible, I assume underscoring the risk in this operation. I had to look,there is a guy in a yellow coat left side half way down. I had to look
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Re: car carrier ship cut up
[Re: Rhinodart]
#2905343
04/02/21 12:10 PM
04/02/21 12:10 PM
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,672 Wichita
GY3
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master
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A real BIG reason why things should be made in the country they are supposed to sell in... Different countries have different natural resources and capabilities so this is not always possible.
'63 Dodge 330 11.19 @ 121 mph Pump gas, n/a, through the mufflers on street tires with 3.54's. 3,600 lbs. 10.01 @ 133mph with a 250 shot of nitrous an a splash of race gas. 1.36 60 ft. 3,700 lbs.
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Re: car carrier ship cut up
[Re: Stanton]
#2906691
04/05/21 07:59 AM
04/05/21 07:59 AM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 542 boston mass-moving to long isl...
massdaytona
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They don't tie vehicles down on ocean-going ferrys, why would they tie them down on one of these ?!?! There may be rails on either side of the tires but that's probably it. It would take hours just to chock the wheels let alone strap the vehicles down ! interesting... please explain further... i've been on hundreds of ships, bulkcarriers/tankers , clean and dirty/lng, and dozens of car carriers - and every one has been secured - so await your most interesting comment as maybe its a new style which i have not seen
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Re: car carrier ship cut up
[Re: massdaytona]
#2906978
04/05/21 07:29 PM
04/05/21 07:29 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,109 Byron, NY
W.I.N. Racing
top fuel
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top fuel
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Byron, NY
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A cruise ship skirting the coast is nothing like a trans ocean voyage... not matter how big the boat is. If they were left unrestrained they would be dented side, top and bottom.
'01 P1500, Blown/Inj BAE,/Veney ,Bruno/CS2,Dana 60 '01 Dodge 3500 S Cummins Auto, Fresh air kit, 4" Exhaust, '05 Dodge Magnum R/T - Too Much to list '60 Willys CJ5 '01 International LPX - Project,DT466, Allison '64 Plymouth Valiant, Inj 528 Hemi, 2spd
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Re: car carrier ship cut up
[Re: Andrewh]
#2907251
04/06/21 12:14 PM
04/06/21 12:14 PM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,769 Holland MI Ottawa
2boltmain
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I believe the big dogs or marine salvage are Wijsmuller and Smit Tak. Their videos on YT are great to watch. Not a job for me. Even in my younger days.
Keep old mopars alive.
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Re: car carrier ship cut up
[Re: Stanton]
#2907370
04/06/21 04:50 PM
04/06/21 04:50 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 542 boston mass-moving to long isl...
massdaytona
mopar
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mopar
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They don't tie vehicles down on ocean-going ferrys, why would they tie them down on one of these ?!?! There may be rails on either side of the tires but that's probably it. It would take hours just to chock the wheels let alone strap the vehicles down ! still awaiting your answer
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Re: car carrier ship cut up
[Re: massdaytona]
#2907504
04/06/21 10:18 PM
04/06/21 10:18 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696 Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
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Bitopia
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They don't tie vehicles down on ocean-going ferrys, why would they tie them down on one of these ?!?! There may be rails on either side of the tires but that's probably it. It would take hours just to chock the wheels let alone strap the vehicles down ! still awaiting your answer You realize with the pic in this thread, it appears every vehicle pictured broke free of its restraints, IF they were restrained in the first place. I am also not certain how much impact forces the restraints would see if the ship rolled over on its side in shallow water. Additionally there is the thought that the cars shifting prior to the capsize precipitated the event. It would seem any restraint system would at the min not break from gravity forces alone of the vehicle. Of course its possible, one vehicle became loose, and it started a mass snowball effect. I am not convinced from what I have read here, the vehicles were restrained by anything more then being put in park. I see no indications of any wheel guides, but the pic is not detailed enough to confirm.
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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Re: car carrier ship cut up
[Re: moparmike1]
#2907584
04/07/21 08:07 AM
04/07/21 08:07 AM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696 Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
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Bitopia
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Interesting So then, it was not apparently weather related It rolled over, and was pushed by tugs onto a sandbar The stability designer refuses to testify/comment No mention is made of load shifting There is no official declaration of cause yet Decades back I worked a Day cruise on a large ship concert out of Canaveral. It so happened that during the afternoon there was a nearby shuttle launch announced. Most of the passengers proceeded to the upper deck to watch the launch. The ship began to list, and the ship quickly turned to present the stern to the launch pad, I believe to even out the passengers and reduce the list. Who would have thought?
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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Re: car carrier ship cut up
[Re: massdaytona]
#2907594
04/07/21 08:38 AM
04/07/21 08:38 AM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696 Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
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Bitopia
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You realize with the pic in this thread, it appears every vehicle pictured broke free of its restraints, IF they were restrained in the first place. . all vehicles are tied down.., You are repeating yourself, but still neglecting to offer anything to support that claim in this incident.
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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Re: car carrier ship cut up
[Re: jcc]
#2907598
04/07/21 08:54 AM
04/07/21 08:54 AM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 542 boston mass-moving to long isl...
massdaytona
mopar
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mopar
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boston mass-moving to long isl...
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You realize with the pic in this thread, it appears every vehicle pictured broke free of its restraints, IF they were restrained in the first place. . all vehicles are tied down.., You are repeating yourself, but still neglecting to offer anything to support that claim in this incident. would you trailer your car without it being secured??? and there lies your answer...
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Re: car carrier ship cut up
[Re: massdaytona]
#2907678
04/07/21 01:01 PM
04/07/21 01:01 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696 Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
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[quote=massdaytona][quote=Stanton] You realize with the pic in this thread, it appears every vehicle pictured broke free of its restraints, IF they were restrained in the first place. . all vehicles are tied down.., You are repeating yourself, but still neglecting to offer anything to support that claim in this incident. would you trailer your car without it being secured??? and there lies your answer... What i or you, or what is safe, normal and/or logical is not the question here, its what was done on this voyage.
And since something went obviously wrong, and the cause has yet to be determined, IMO, EVERYTHING is still on the table in determining that cause.
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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Re: car carrier ship cut up
[Re: jcc]
#2907739
04/07/21 02:53 PM
04/07/21 02:53 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,671
Andrewh
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Interesting So then, it was not apparently weather related It rolled over, and was pushed by tugs onto a sandbar The stability designer refuses to testify/comment No mention is made of load shifting There is no official declaration of cause yet Decades back I worked a Day cruise on a large ship concert out of Canaveral. It so happened that during the afternoon there was a nearby shuttle launch announced. Most of the passengers proceeded to the upper deck to watch the launch. The ship began to list, and the ship quickly turned to present the stern to the launch pad, I believe to even out the passengers and reduce the list. Who would have thought? When the enterprise got stuck they had the whole crew run from side to side to try and free her. you can see them all on deck.
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Re: car carrier ship cut up
[Re: BH27G1B]
#2907764
04/07/21 03:58 PM
04/07/21 03:58 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 410 MA
BH27G1B
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 410
MA
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Re: car carrier ship cut up
[Re: BH27G1B]
#2907845
04/07/21 09:31 PM
04/07/21 09:31 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696 Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
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Bitopia
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So that's why Home Depot runs out of tie down straps when ships come into port.
Wonder how much list those straps with withstand, meaning they sure don't look substantial IMO.
Nobody can argue the amount of time that strapping would require both in and out, meaning a big motive to avoid the procedure entirely.
A more detailed pic at some point of the salvaged ship ought to clearly show some remnants of any straps in use.
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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Re: car carrier ship cut up
[Re: BH27G1B]
#2907850
04/07/21 09:53 PM
04/07/21 09:53 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 410 MA
BH27G1B
mopar
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mopar
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Re: car carrier ship cut up
[Re: jcc]
#2907918
04/08/21 07:29 AM
04/08/21 07:29 AM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 542 boston mass-moving to long isl...
massdaytona
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mopar
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[quote=jcc][quote=massdaytona][quote=jcc][quote=massdaytona][quote=Stanton] And since something went obviously wrong, and the cause has yet to be determined, IMO, EVERYTHING is still on the table in determining that cause. and that is a very fair statement
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Re: car carrier ship cut up
[Re: BH27G1B]
#2907942
04/08/21 10:10 AM
04/08/21 10:10 AM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696 Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
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Bitopia
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Interesting pics, but one aspect, with the reported multiple fires, I suspect many of the fabric straps did not survive for the pics ( looks like neither did the tires), and some vehicle shifting took place AFTER the capsize in the resulting fires, so the after pics might be slightly misleading regarding the load shifting contribution here.
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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Re: car carrier ship cut up
[Re: hooziewhatsit]
#2907975
04/08/21 11:33 AM
04/08/21 11:33 AM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,884 Oregon
hooziewhatsit
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In this story, they say that all the cars were strapped down. They were concerned that if one broke loose, it would break the others loose below it, then finish the tip while they were under deck.
If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.
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