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Freighter throws rods and destroys engine compartment #2893496
02/26/21 07:48 PM
02/26/21 07:48 PM
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Benton, IL.
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DaveRS23 Offline OP
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Last edited by DaveRS23; 02/26/21 07:48 PM.

Master, again and still
Re: Freighter throws rods and destroys engine compartment [Re: DaveRS23] #2893501
02/26/21 08:00 PM
02/26/21 08:00 PM
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Posts: 20,755
A collage of whims
topside Offline
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Nice job on the engine rebuild...
Just cut on the rods to get the bushings in, eh ?

Re: Freighter throws rods and destroys engine compartment [Re: topside] #2893513
02/26/21 08:52 PM
02/26/21 08:52 PM
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Posts: 12,038
Benton, IL.
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DaveRS23 Offline OP
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Maybe a phord mechanic doing the rebuild?


Master, again and still
Re: Freighter throws rods and destroys engine compartment [Re: DaveRS23] #2893524
02/26/21 09:36 PM
02/26/21 09:36 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,069
Michigan
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A727Tflite Offline
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I’m sure some of you recall seeing the locomotive that launched piston after the jug came loose from the crankcase.

2BA413EC-8B03-4D58-A308-C0CF64274F66.jpeg9FA9332C-528E-4EEA-AF94-21F529CB38C2.jpegACAAC5E9-FD37-4328-AA60-A76D49AA86FD.jpeg3BB5DC0C-6069-4632-AF6E-F6D71EF93387.jpeg
Re: Freighter throws rods and destroys engine compartment [Re: DaveRS23] #2893526
02/26/21 09:38 PM
02/26/21 09:38 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,129
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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My father was a engineer and later got his Chief engineer license for medium ship diesel engines, those engines are HUGE shock
Very low speed RPM wise also, maybe 1200 RPM max, maybe less or a little bit higher confused


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Freighter throws rods and destroys engine compartment [Re: Cab_Burge] #2893541
02/26/21 10:38 PM
02/26/21 10:38 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
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jcc Offline
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Cutting to the chase, in the little things do matter column:

""The introduction of notches, probably caused during the bush removal process, introduced stress [risers] into the small end, increased the likelihood of fatigue crack initiation and therefore fatigue failure."

Referring to the Con rod rebushing screw up by a hand angle grinder that was likely the cited cause of the calamity.


Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
Re: Freighter throws rods and destroys engine compartment [Re: jcc] #2893549
02/26/21 11:08 PM
02/26/21 11:08 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,704
MICHIGAN
DynoDave Offline
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Yikes.

Hopefully that rebuilder doesn't offer Mopar crate engines.


DynoDave
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Re: Freighter throws rods and destroys engine compartment [Re: DynoDave] #2893576
02/27/21 01:01 AM
02/27/21 01:01 AM
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Posts: 8,241
fredericksburg,va
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cudaman1969 Offline
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Should of had a man standing beside that mess t show the size of engine

Re: Freighter throws rods and destroys engine compartment [Re: cudaman1969] #2893586
02/27/21 02:50 AM
02/27/21 02:50 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
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Bend,OR USA
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I think all the large ship diesel engines have removeable inspection plates into the crankcase large enough for a man to walk into and have to look up to see the wrist pins shock
The comment about a man standing beside one is a good example of the large sizes up bow

Last edited by Cab_Burge; 02/27/21 02:50 AM.

Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Freighter throws rods and destroys engine compartment [Re: DaveRS23] #2893599
02/27/21 07:00 AM
02/27/21 07:00 AM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 8,162
USA
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360view Offline
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Strictly from a business viewpoint
the small sum of money saved by having a cheap rate crew overhaul the engine
is far less than the $ damage.

Years ago I needed an EMD diesel rebuilt out of a GP-38 locomotive.
We got bids from several shops, one of which located near New Orleans did mainly ship service diesels.
This shop sent one of the owners to “sell us” on why his business should get the job.
One of his arguments was:
“Our marine customers hold us to much higher standards than railroad customers because if an engine goes bad at sea it is much more of a life or death situation.”

We gave that engine rebuilding shop the job and they delivered an engine that performed well and very noticeably leaked less oil than even factory new GM EMD engines did.

Re: Freighter throws rods and destroys engine compartment [Re: DynoDave] #2893624
02/27/21 09:46 AM
02/27/21 09:46 AM
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nowhere
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Originally Posted by DynoDave
Yikes.

Hopefully that rebuilder doesn't offer Mopar crate engines.


They probably torqued by feel, because experience you know.

Re: Freighter throws rods and destroys engine compartment [Re: Cab_Burge] #2893634
02/27/21 10:54 AM
02/27/21 10:54 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,561
Downtown Roebuck Ont
Twostick Online content
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Downtown Roebuck Ont
Originally Posted by Cab_Burge
My father was a engineer and later got his Chief engineer license for medium ship diesel engines, those engines are HUGE shock
Very low speed RPM wise also, maybe 1200 RPM max, maybe less or a little bit higher confused


In the marine world, that is considered a high speed diesel.

The big ocean going units are slow speed, in the 80-120 RPM range.

Kevin

Re: Freighter throws rods and destroys engine compartment [Re: Twostick] #2893643
02/27/21 11:18 AM
02/27/21 11:18 AM
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Posts: 10,708
North Dakota
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The utility I worked at had a number of '40's era diesel generating plants. Rating was about 2.4 MW per unit IIRC. The plant manager started one up for us on a visit and it was chugging along at about 800 rpm and I asked him when he would take it off idle. He looked at me funny and said that it was already at governed speed.


"We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".
Re: Freighter throws rods and destroys engine compartment [Re: Twostick] #2893648
02/27/21 11:26 AM
02/27/21 11:26 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,561
Downtown Roebuck Ont
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Originally Posted by Twostick
Originally Posted by Cab_Burge
My father was a engineer and later got his Chief engineer license for medium ship diesel engines, those engines are HUGE shock
Very low speed RPM wise also, maybe 1200 RPM max, maybe less or a little bit higher confused


In the marine world, that is considered a high speed diesel.

The big ocean going units are slow speed, in the 80-120 RPM range.

Kevin


The engine in this ship from what I can gather, is a MAN 12V 48/60 .

A medium speed diesel. Just over 19,000 HP @ 500 RPM. shock panic

Torque at peak HP is just over 199,000 ft/lbs. Not sure what peak torque is but I suspect it's approaching the outer limits of a 727 Torqueflite . biggrin

Kevin

Re: Freighter throws rods and destroys engine compartment [Re: Twostick] #2893660
02/27/21 11:38 AM
02/27/21 11:38 AM
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new jersey usa
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11secdart Offline
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Last edited by 11secdart; 02/28/21 08:10 AM.

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Re: Freighter throws rods and destroys engine compartment [Re: DaveRS23] #2893678
02/27/21 12:16 PM
02/27/21 12:16 PM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 12,234
Looking for a way out of Middl...
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Given the size of that engine. If they can't take the block out in pieces I can't see a way to fix it that would be cheaper than a new boat.

Even if you can remove the block in pieces I think your gonna have a big, big, problems getting pieces that size out of the hull.

I don't know but it seems like they totaled a ship. shruggy

Re: Freighter throws rods and destroys engine compartment [Re: IMGTX] #2893698
02/27/21 01:11 PM
02/27/21 01:11 PM
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nowhere
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Originally Posted by IMGTX


Even if you can remove the block in pieces I think your gonna have a big, big, problems getting pieces that size out of the hull.



Not at all, cut out the deck(s) above, hoist it out, put new one in, weld decks back in. Not uncommon in ship repair.

Re: Freighter throws rods and destroys engine compartment [Re: IMGTX] #2893699
02/27/21 01:12 PM
02/27/21 01:12 PM
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WI
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Originally Posted by IMGTX
Given the size of that engine. If they can't take the block out in pieces I can't see a way to fix it that would be cheaper than a new boat.

Even if you can remove the block in pieces I think your gonna have a big, big, problems getting pieces that size out of the hull.

I don't know but it seems like they totaled a ship. shruggy


They won't total a ship that size. They'll cut a hole in the side and out it goes. Saw them do that in a documentary on TV one time. Crazy amount of work/time/money but that's what they do. Here they are doing a cruise ship in the same manner:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pw6-82YVIbE

Re: Freighter throws rods and destroys engine compartment [Re: IMGTX] #2893732
02/27/21 02:35 PM
02/27/21 02:35 PM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 12,234
Looking for a way out of Middl...
IMGTX Offline
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Wow I guess if there is a will or a paycheck there is a way.

That just seems like a crazy repair. up

Re: Freighter throws rods and destroys engine compartment [Re: IMGTX] #2893740
02/27/21 02:54 PM
02/27/21 02:54 PM
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Posts: 22,696
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Of course anything is doable, but there are of course many other factors involved in deciding what is the best solution/repair, like age of the hull, cost of a replacement engine, market that the ship serves, overall environmental footprint of the ship in regards to current or future expected regulations, its cost to operate relative to the competition, and the depth of the pockets of the owner or who ever foots the bill, and lastly, how close is the ship to Bangladesh grin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_breaking


Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
Re: Freighter throws rods and destroys engine compartment [Re: jcc] #2893857
02/27/21 07:34 PM
02/27/21 07:34 PM
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Posts: 10,708
North Dakota
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We replaced a feedwater heater in the plant I used to work at. We used a heavy lifting firm whose primary business was removing diesel engines from ships to remove the old heater out and the new heater in. They had a modular skidding arrangement that pinned together to form a track. Each rail of the track had cross pins and they had a hydraulic apparatus that was fastened to the heater. The hydraulics engaged the cross pins in the track and literally pulled the heater along the track. Looked like a small railroad. In talking to the foreman what they typically did in ships was have an access hole cut in the side, they'd assemble the track, and then skid the engine(s) sideways out of the ship. I looked for some pictures of the setup but I must have lost them over the years.


"We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".
Re: Freighter throws rods and destroys engine compartment [Re: 6PakBee] #2893911
02/27/21 10:25 PM
02/27/21 10:25 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,561
Downtown Roebuck Ont
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Originally Posted by 6PakBee
We replaced a feedwater heater in the plant I used to work at. We used a heavy lifting firm whose primary business was removing diesel engines from ships to remove the old heater out and the new heater in. They had a modular skidding arrangement that pinned together to form a track. Each rail of the track had cross pins and they had a hydraulic apparatus that was fastened to the heater. The hydraulics engaged the cross pins in the track and literally pulled the heater along the track. Looked like a small railroad. In talking to the foreman what they typically did in ships was have an access hole cut in the side, they'd assemble the track, and then skid the engine(s) sideways out of the ship. I looked for some pictures of the setup but I must have lost them over the years.


Jack and slide. They use the same equipment to move big transformers.

Kevin

Re: Freighter throws rods and destroys engine compartment [Re: cudaman1969] #2894561
03/01/21 08:12 PM
03/01/21 08:12 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 374
Alberta, Canada
300rag Offline
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Originally Posted by cudaman1969
Should of had a man standing beside that mess t show the size of engine


Here's a couple

Piston check

Crank replacement

Piston replacement

Engine removal

Last edited by 300rag; 03/01/21 08:43 PM.

Peter



'65 300 'vert 413/4spd
'18 Challenger R/T Shaker
'19 Durango R/T
Re: Freighter throws rods and destroys engine compartment [Re: 300rag] #2894584
03/01/21 09:45 PM
03/01/21 09:45 PM
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Bitopia
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That was fascinating Thank you.

Curious as to what rod ratios are in play here, with that one crank, I'm guessing in way over the 5:1 range.

That crank change out rigging dance looked to be a bit sketchy, but they got it done.

The red suited crews definitely are trained for safety awareness.

The last video, piston swap crew, not so much.

Impressive. up


Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
Re: Freighter throws rods and destroys engine compartment [Re: jcc] #2895125
03/03/21 09:27 AM
03/03/21 09:27 AM
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Posts: 59
USA
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Ship will go into dry dock and the yard will cut out whatever is needed to remove and install a new block. I worked in ship repair for 20 plus years, granted on much smaller vessels, we gained access to the DC motors by cutting the main deck right above the motor room. We also on occasion removed ship service generators the same way. I never saw the deck above one of the four V 16 engines cut open on any of our ships to remove them. The machinists would remove power packs using a overhead trolley. They would replace main bearings through the crankcase side covers. All the welding and fit up is inspected by American Bureau of Shipping. All the welders have to pass ABS tests.
When I first started there I was told all repairs were done in house at one time. They had a armature winding shop and the last armature winder had just retired and he was not replaced. All the valves that leaked were rebuilt, babitt bearings were repoured and machined. I found moulds in a storage building and I was told many decades ago they even made parts from those moulds
No matter how much a [censored] a guy was, how much a lazy worker he was the work done was done to a high quality. Nobody wanted anything they did to fail. The last thing anyone wanted to happen was have a ship lose power while underway. Or have anything happen to put the thousands of passengers in peril
I think to some degree that's all changed

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