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Re: Why aren't there more forced induction cars?
[Re: gregsdart]
#2846043
11/14/20 11:25 AM
11/14/20 11:25 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,406
Michigan
MarkZ
Worthy
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Worthy
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,406
Michigan
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I often think about this and believe I missed the boat. I've got $15k into building a very mild 512 and I'm happy with it, but keep coming back to forced induction. The 400B I picked up to serve as the base of the build I could have re-ringed and tossed a ProCharger onto cheaper than the stroker route. I don't do anything competitive, so it would be a sub 6k RPM build with moderate timing. Forced induction is an itch though that'll eventually get scratched though even if it has to be my upcoming brand X project.
1987 Fifth Avenue - 512/518/D60
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Re: Why aren't there more forced induction cars?
[Re: feets]
#2846131
11/14/20 03:44 PM
11/14/20 03:44 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,173
Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,173
Bend,OR USA
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Feets, it ain't hard in todays world to make a low deck 400 block pump gas N/A stroker motor make over 700 on pump swill, why go to a power adder?
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Why aren't there more forced induction cars?
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2846153
11/14/20 04:10 PM
11/14/20 04:10 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,540
Milwaukee WI
TRENDZ
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,540
Milwaukee WI
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Because it will run nicer, last longer, require less maintenance, and the power has a much wider range.
"use it 'till it breaks, replace as needed"
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Re: Why aren't there more forced induction cars?
[Re: TRENDZ]
#2846164
11/14/20 04:29 PM
11/14/20 04:29 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,173
Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,173
Bend,OR USA
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Because it will run nicer, last longer, require less maintenance, and the power has a much wider range.  Me thinks more pressure, more HP, on the pistons, rods and bearing makes them live less, not longer  
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 11/14/20 04:31 PM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Why aren't there more forced induction cars?
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2846189
11/14/20 05:08 PM
11/14/20 05:08 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,174
PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,174
PA.
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Because it will run nicer, last longer, require less maintenance, and the power has a much wider range. Me thinks more pressure, more HP, on the pistons, rods and bearing makes them live less, not longer Cab most of them jump on them once in awhile maybe a few times a month, wax it, and go to a car show or car cruise. Should last forever and the car show guys go crazy over blowers and turbos. 😜
1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: Why aren't there more forced induction cars?
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2846193
11/14/20 05:12 PM
11/14/20 05:12 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,540
Milwaukee WI
TRENDZ
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,540
Milwaukee WI
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To many people feel the same thing. That’s what’s so disappointing.
No way to make great wide range power naturally aspirated without huge cubic inches. You can build a narrow power range naturally aspirated engine out of commonly available parts, but you will need big cam, big spring rates, high rpm.
I assure you that a properly tuned 800 hp turbocharged low deck engine with a smallish cam will outperform and outlast any 700 hp naturally aspirated engine that could be built on any similar budget.
"use it 'till it breaks, replace as needed"
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Re: Why aren't there more forced induction cars?
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2846233
11/14/20 07:03 PM
11/14/20 07:03 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
feets
OP
Senior Management
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OP
Senior Management
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
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Because it will run nicer, last longer, require less maintenance, and the power has a much wider range. Me thinks more pressure, more HP, on the pistons, rods and bearing makes them live less, not longer Popular misconception. Piston loads go up in a rather minor way but the forces are greater for a longer period of time below peak. Denser air burns longer so the area under the curve is greater. As I said earlier, at the end of the exhaust stroke the forces are lower and you're less likely to throw a piston into the head.
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
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Re: Why aren't there more forced induction cars?
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#2846246
11/14/20 07:30 PM
11/14/20 07:30 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 143
North America
kwikblownhemi
member
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member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 143
North America
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Because it will run nicer, last longer, require less maintenance, and the power has a much wider range. Me thinks more pressure, more HP, on the pistons, rods and bearing makes them live less, not longer Cab most of them jump on them once in awhile maybe a few times a month, wax it, and go to a car show or car cruise. Should last forever and the car show guys go crazy over blowers and turbos. 😜 I put mine together in 1978 using parts bought from alcohol and fuel racers. Some of the drive parts I modified or made. It has never been to a car show. I have fun with it. There are lots of reasons why people don't like forced induction. There are lots of reasons why they do. Sort of like whether people do or don't like Mopars.
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Re: Why aren't there more forced induction cars?
[Re: feets]
#2846265
11/14/20 08:25 PM
11/14/20 08:25 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 9,099
Rogue River, OR
Jeremiah
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 9,099
Rogue River, OR
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Why are there so few turbo and blower cars out there? I can understand class rules and such but if you're out there trying to run a street strip car it's much easier to make power and the cars are far more streetable in many cases.
Build a typical 9:1 engine making 450 hp and it'll run forever. Add 7 lbs of boost and you're over 600 hp. Slide that up to 10 lbs of boost and you're crowding 800.
Engines like this do not need exotic parts. They run fine with flat hydraulic cams and stock stamped rockers. There's little need to run them over 6000. Knowing that RPM is what kills engines you can see they lead a relatively easy life as far as internal forces go.
In fact, when rods fail it's usually on the exhaust stroke where the crank throws the piston into the head and the rod can't snatch it back down. In a turbo car there is pressure in the exhaust and that actually helps reduce the force on the rod a wee bit.
Fuel injection is nice but you can get blow through carbs all day long.
Yes, there's a little more plumbing involved but it's not that hard.
Thoughts? I am thinking it is probably because you gayed it up so bad in the early 2000s everyone went Vortec or nitrous. : D
Last edited by Jeremiah; 11/14/20 08:26 PM.
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Re: Why aren't there more forced induction cars?
[Re: Jeremiah]
#2846293
11/14/20 09:28 PM
11/14/20 09:28 PM
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,672
Wichita
GY3
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,672
Wichita
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Why are there so few turbo and blower cars out there? I can understand class rules and such but if you're out there trying to run a street strip car it's much easier to make power and the cars are far more streetable in many cases.
Build a typical 9:1 engine making 450 hp and it'll run forever. Add 7 lbs of boost and you're over 600 hp. Slide that up to 10 lbs of boost and you're crowding 800.
Engines like this do not need exotic parts. They run fine with flat hydraulic cams and stock stamped rockers. There's little need to run them over 6000. Knowing that RPM is what kills engines you can see they lead a relatively easy life as far as internal forces go.
In fact, when rods fail it's usually on the exhaust stroke where the crank throws the piston into the head and the rod can't snatch it back down. In a turbo car there is pressure in the exhaust and that actually helps reduce the force on the rod a wee bit.
Fuel injection is nice but you can get blow through carbs all day long.
Yes, there's a little more plumbing involved but it's not that hard.
Thoughts? I am thinking it is probably because you gayed it up so bad in the early 2000s everyone went Vortec or nitrous. : D  C'mon, he got into the 14's didn't he?
'63 Dodge 330
11.19 @ 121 mph
Pump gas, n/a, through the mufflers on street tires with 3.54's. 3,600 lbs.
10.01 @ 133mph with a 250 shot of nitrous an a splash of race gas. 1.36 60 ft. 3,700 lbs.
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Re: Why aren't there more forced induction cars?
[Re: FastmOp]
#2846305
11/14/20 09:49 PM
11/14/20 09:49 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 9,099
Rogue River, OR
Jeremiah
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 9,099
Rogue River, OR
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I bought a good block after I went 140 mph with a stock block.
Cab that's in the 1/8 mile. 1/2 track for you.
Now same combo in a aftermarket block is running over 160 in the 1/8.
Its a bracket motor with a turbo cam.
Been together 4 years. Stock block motor that went 140 is still together. On stand waiting on a streetcar project.
Then I have a set of twins and a billet hemi 1/2 way together for the next step in performance Where the bleep bleep progress pics at?
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Re: Why aren't there more forced induction cars?
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2846311
11/14/20 09:57 PM
11/14/20 09:57 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,997
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,997
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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Feets, it ain't hard in todays world to make a low deck 400 block pump gas N/A stroker motor make over 700 on pump swill, why go to a power adder? for streetability nothing beats a twin screw style blown motor. Idle like a kitten puring, run like a scalded cat! I got sold on blowers when i put one on a 300hp 2006 mustang and it went 115 mph in the 1/4 on stock tires and still got 25 mpg on the hiway.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: Why aren't there more forced induction cars?
[Re: Dragula]
#2846351
11/14/20 11:50 PM
11/14/20 11:50 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,785
Utah and Alaska
astjp2
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,785
Utah and Alaska
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Because no one makes an intake to install a whipple type blower on a Gen 2 hemi with fuel injection for less than $10K
1941 Taylorcraft
1968 Charger
1994 Wrangler
1998 Wrangler
2008 Kia Rio
2017 Jetta
I didn't do 4 years and 9 months of Graduate School to be called Mister!
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