Ok, I have an original 70 RT Charger 440 Magnum/auto car. I'm growing rather tired of the 727 with no overdrive. I'd really like to put a late model 5 speed manual in it.

My car has clean original floors, so I want to keep permanant modifications to a minimum, but I know a piece has to be cut and replaced for the 4 speed hump.

My question is, what is the best (And least destructive) way to convert this original auto car to a manual trans? I hate to modify an original RT, but I'm never selling it and it would be much more fun to drive with a stick. Not to mention overdrive.

Is Keisler my only route? I've been offered a complete 833 pulled out of another Bbody, with pedals and linkages and everything, but then I still have 40 year old parts with no overdrive.

So what's the best way to go about this? And does anyone have a rough idea what the Keisler kits are going for? Or has anyone here had experience with one?

You're car sounds just like mine, original auto i'm converting to a 4-speed.

Keisler is not your only option, look up Passon's 4-speed, looks like a factory 833 and will give you the overdrive you're looking for. Personally, I've heard nasty things about the Keislers so I say stay away but that's me - no personal experience here.

Passon's is nice because there's no modifications needed, with Keisler, there might be but im not 100% on that

Yeah I think we've met on here before man. Your on the Charger board too right?

I've never heard of Passion's before. I'll look for them. I really want a manual tranny, and I really would like overdrive. My car sees highway crusing 99 percent of the time, not to mention how much fun it must be to drive a 440 4 uh, 5 speed.

Yeah, check out Passon's 4 speed set up, that's what im gonna be doing. It its a little more costly, but for what you get, along with the stock appearance its well worth it!

As for our Chargers, they're kinda sisters Mine's Go-Mango, Burnt Orange Interior, White top and White Bumblebee Stripe, 440, auto, air conditioning, ect. Im getting rid of the auto, puting in a 4 speed just like you. I'm gonna keep the 8 3/4 for now and ultimately put in a Dana -- keep it as stock as I can, 4 speeds came with Dana's I believe

Thats gonna be a goregous Charger man. Go Mango is beautiful on 70s.

I don't recall seeing any other 70s in that color combo before, but it's gonna look great.

I think the Track Pack 4 speed cars came with Danas, too, the 8 3/4s will be strong enough until it comes time to upgrade though. It would probably take a wide set of slicks on a sticky track and a few clutch dumps before the 8&3/4 gave way.

I went the Keisler route and like it. Either way you have to put the hump in and drill a hole or two in the floor for the clutch linkage and/or clutch master cylinder.

One other thing I'm wondering, do all of these conversions use late model hydraulic clutches? Do you drill a hole in the firewall to mount the master cylinder?

Make sure to do a thorough search on this board. The Keisler-Passon-GV overdrive topic has come up at least a few times, don't depend on all those responses and info to make it to this thread.

I went with the TKO-600 from Keisler last fall and love it. It is in my 69 Coronet R/T convertible, I had the same feelings as you about doing it to this car but finally took the plunge.

I will be the first to admit that I am no mechanical genius but I had a great experience. They answered all of my questions before the sale, the kit arrive 100% complete, the installation was straight-forward and well documented in the instructions, and they've been helpful after the sale when I've had a few random questions (like getting me the Ford part number for a new speedo gear to get it corrected).

I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm a very satisfied customer, have a 3.73 Dana 60 rear and it is really nice cruising the highway at 75-80mph.

Darren


EDIT: The hyd. clutch master cylinder mounts where the original clutch rod would have gone through the firewall and the fluid reservoir mounts on the side of the brake master cylinder.

Thanks Darren.

The others are correct, do a search as this topic has been covered in the past.

It's going to boil down to what you are looking for and your intended use of the car. Passon makes a heck of transmission and Jamie is a first class guy. He uses the A833 so it fits like the 833 is supposed to fit. The TKO kits we engineered fit as well. On the '66-'70 B-body cars, if it is an automatic, you have to install the 4 speed hump and clearance for it and that's it. Our shifter is located on the centerline of the tunnel but with our adapter, the handle still comes out in the console like it's supposed to.
The TKO has more overdrive than the Passon unit but if that's not what you're going after, then your options are wide open.

I will be glad to anwer any tech questions you might have, so ask away.



Richard
Tehc Support

my big block dakota has a TKO-600 in it, and It's a joy to drive. only complaint I have is that I can't power shift it the way I want to, but its my first heavy duty transmission, so i'm used to light duty, lightweight transmissions, and I've been told that the beefier innards of the TKO just take a bit more time to "synch up" with the new gear/RPM, so shifts take a fraction of a second longer.

been a few times when I run it up through the gears, that I try to shift fast and it's like hitting a wall on the shifter, just won't go into gear.

but when driving around leisurely, it shifts so smooth, I don't even have to use the clutch!

overall, I really like it.

you can spend the money and get a modified bell like the one that keisler sells for an almost "OEM" fit, which would allow the use of mechanical clutch linkages if you really want it, but since they were not offering a kit when I put my truck together, I ended up using a lakewood "scattershield" or blow-proof bell housing, which is rather "generic" in it's shape, but functions perfectly. and I'm running a hydraulic clutch because surprisingly, no one made mechanical clutch linkage for a big block in a 98 Dakota!

hydraulic flex lines were much easier to route than trying to fabricate custom mechanical clutch linkages

Passon can sell you a 100% stock 4-sp install kit with his overdrive gearset for the 833. This means stock mechanical clutch linkage, stock appearing trans, etc. The gear ratios in his 833 w/ overdrive gearset are pretty much the same ratios as a 727 but with a .8:1 4th gear.

Jamie Passon's OD 833 is super beefy and, of course, fits like a glove.

Shafi Keisler's has one more gear, modern / smooth rail type shifting, and all tapered roller bearings - much less friction, quieter. In the 600 ft/lb version, I'd say strength is about equal to a red stripe (18 spl.) 833.

Kinda boils down to ya pays your money and takes your choice! I've run zillions of happy miles with each tranny.

Rick

Thanks for the input guys. I may be clueless here, I've been looking for the website for Passion's and haven't come up with anything.

Anyone got a link?

Also, what are these kits going for today? Last time I checked about 2 years ago they were starting at 2500.

Thanks again.

you have a pm

Here is the Passon site:

http://www.passonperformance.com/

Keisler:

http://www.keislerauto.com/

For a conversion kit, your $2,500 estimate would be reasonable if you sourced used parts yourself. A "new" kit is quite a bit more.

In my dealings with Jamie Passon are a great product, great service, and a Man that stands behind his work and product. Not that the other guy isn't as good, I just haven't delt with him. But I have heard the Passon OD is a bolt in, where th other requires mods.