Re: NEW DIRECTION IN THE 318 BUILD!Getting a 360
[Re: erick72]
#280824
04/07/09 11:11 PM
04/07/09 11:11 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318 Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo
Too Many Posts
|
Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
|
Quote:
i think i can get at least 350 horse with the combo im doing
I don't know about that. I know of a few magnum headed 360's that dynoed 375hp but they had more compression than you and more cam. With the combo you have, if you are trying to do this to an old tired smogger engine I'm thinking more like 300-330hp tops.
|
|
|
Re: NEW DIRECTION IN THE 318 BUILD!Getting a 360
[Re: DaytonaTurbo]
#280826
04/07/09 11:55 PM
04/07/09 11:55 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 580 Detroit,Michigan USA!
erick72
OP
mopar
|
OP
mopar
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 580
Detroit,Michigan USA!
|
Quote:
Quote:
i think i can get at least 350 horse with the combo im doing
I don't know about that. I know of a few magnum headed 360's that dynoed 375hp but they had more compression than you and more cam. With the combo you have, if you are trying to do this to an old tired smogger engine I'm thinking more like 300-330hp tops.
well now im getting an engine with 85,000 miles off an awesome moparts member with a 727 trans
im really excited now!i cant wait!
|
|
|
Re: NEW DIRECTION IN THE 318 BUILD!Getting a 360
[Re: MonGoo$e]
#280828
04/08/09 02:54 AM
04/08/09 02:54 AM
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,162 CT
GTX MATT
master
|
master
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,162
CT
|
On a side note as a question for Eric, will the Magnum heads even flow better than the 360 heads? I thought they were kind of restrictive and more suited for a 318.
Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
|
|
|
Re: NEW DIRECTION IN THE 318 BUILD!Getting a 360
[Re: 340duster340]
#280829
04/08/09 07:07 AM
04/08/09 07:07 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,200 Upper Midwest
MoparforLife
Too Many Posts
|
Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,200
Upper Midwest
|
Quote:
nice score.
keep it simple, good cam, pistons, and factory "J" heads, you'll have more than enough power.
Amen. You can make good power with nothing but a cam switch and using the right valve springs for the cam. Even using stock pistons you can make that 360 really wake up. A good intake like and LD340 or Airgap and 650 or 700 Carb and it will come alive. Believe me.
|
|
|
Re: NEW DIRECTION IN THE 318 BUILD!Getting a 360
[Re: MoparforLife]
#280830
04/08/09 10:06 AM
04/08/09 10:06 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123 Grand Haven, MI
patrick
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
|
remember guys, erik is 16 and not made of money....I guess I don't see doing a piston swap without a bore job, and you're probably looking at $700+ for some KB107's, rings, getting the new pistons pressed on the rods, & bore & hone.... $175 is a very good deal if the shortblock is a good, running engine, and a fair deal if it needs to be rebuilt. I'd probably tear it down at least checking the conditions of the bearings, and maybe replacing them and the rings... sounds like you already have the mag heads, so I'd use those. they flow a little better than stock 360 heads with smaller ports (better velocity) and smaller chambers (more compression). with the .028" thick MP or MR. gasket head gaskets and a 63ish cc mag chamber, you're looking at about 8.7-8.9:1 compression with stock 360 pistons. if you didn't have them, the stock 360 heads aren't bad, either. definitely use the GM3100 springs/retainers and the mag locks--comp doesn't have a recommendation for springs for mag heads, because they don't make any retainers for them....but the GM springs are a good generic performance spring, in the regards that they're 330-365 lb/in rate, will have 90-100lbs seat pressure at they're typical install height on a mag head (~1.6-1.62" or so), and coil bind at 1.06", so you're looking at about .480-.490 max lift, so they're very comparable to a comp 901 on an LA head. definitely use some headers, I'd probably get the summit or flowtech ones based on price (flowtech ones are $280 ceramic coated from summit). intake, IIRC the street dominator is a single plane, longish runners, and 318 port size. should be an OK intake, if you already have it, but a better intake for your combo would be a dual plane, I'd probably look to the stock 360 manifold (on the cheap) or an eddie performer (next cheapest, will gain you a little low end torque, but cost you a little peak HP over a stock 360 intake) or a eddie RPM/LD340/air gap (most expensive). cam. remember, magnums use 1.6 ratio rockers, so to stay "safe" on the lift with the GM springs (without knowing the exact installed height of the springs on YOUR heads), you're looking at a cam with a lobe lift of about .303" max (ends up being .485" lift with 1.6's, or .455" lift with 1.5's. here's the cams I'd look at: summit k6901 cheapest, $100 for cam/lifters is 276/286 adv. dur, .441" lift with 1.5 rockers, .470 with mag rockers, 218/228 .050 dur, 114 LSA, 53 degrees overlap. with that much overlap, should give a pretty lopey idle, but the .050 duration numbers being rather tame, should give good drivability and street manners. MP .450/.455" lift cam 268/272 adv. dur, .45/.455 lift with 1.5 rockers, .480/.485 lift with mag rockers, 228/231 .050 duration, 110 LSA 50 degrees overlap. similar idle to above cam, more .050 duration will give more peak power potential, and provide it higher in the rev range, the narrower LSA will boost some of the midrange torque loss due to the increased .050 duration. should behave very similarly to a comp XE268 in a 9:1 LA 360. comp XE256 256/268 adv, 212/218 .050, .447/.455 lift w/1.5 rockers, .477/.485" lift with 1.6's, 42 degrees overlap. should have a near stock idle, and make very good torque. should have stronger idle-3500RPM power/torque than the above, and probably won't sacrifice much in the upper RPM regions either. for a heavy B body, and my preference for being stealthy, this is the cam I'd use, especially if you plan on keeping highway friendly (2.76-2.94) gearing. comp 268H 268/268 adv, 218/218 .050, .454/.454" lift with 1.5's, .484/.484" lift with 1.6's, 110 LSA, 48 degrees overlap. would probably fall somewhere between the summit cam and the XE256 in idle quality and performance. for reference, I have a stock long block 360, some home bowl ported 360 heads, headers, eddie air gap, 600 eddie carb, and a comp XE262 in my 3900lb 5th ave. I used the head gaskets out of the standard felpro gasket kit (.054" compressed), my calculated compression based on my pistons depth-in-hole is about 7.8:1. my car idles with about 13" vaccuum in gear at 750 RPM (17" in park at about 900 RPM) so it has a very slight lope. my 3900 lb 5th ave, with an A500 tranny, 3.55's and 27" tires moves very good, and can keep up with a LX 300C hemi from a roll, so I'm guessing it's a low 14 second car, maybe nipping high 13's. the XE262 has too much lift on the exhaust lobe for your springs, but the 268H should perform nearly identical (if not better) with the mag 1.6 rockers as an XE262 with the LA 1.5's
Last edited by patrick; 04/08/09 12:42 PM.
1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD 1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!*** 2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T 2017 Grand Cherokee Overland 2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
|
|
|
Re: NEW DIRECTION IN THE 318 BUILD!Getting a 360
[Re: patrick]
#280832
04/08/09 04:16 PM
04/08/09 04:16 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 580 Detroit,Michigan USA!
erick72
OP
mopar
|
OP
mopar
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 580
Detroit,Michigan USA!
|
Quote:
remember guys, erik is 16 and not made of money....I guess I don't see doing a piston swap without a bore job, and you're probably looking at $700+ for some KB107's, rings, getting the new pistons pressed on the rods, & bore & hone....
$175 is a very good deal if the shortblock is a good, running engine, and a fair deal if it needs to be rebuilt. I'd probably tear it down at least checking the conditions of the bearings, and maybe replacing them and the rings...
sounds like you already have the mag heads, so I'd use those. they flow a little better than stock 360 heads with smaller ports (better velocity) and smaller chambers (more compression). with the .028" thick MP or MR. gasket head gaskets and a 63ish cc mag chamber, you're looking at about 8.7-8.9:1 compression with stock 360 pistons. if you didn't have them, the stock 360 heads aren't bad, either. definitely use the GM3100 springs/retainers and the mag locks--comp doesn't have a recommendation for springs for mag heads, because they don't make any retainers for them....but the GM springs are a good generic performance spring, in the regards that they're 330-365 lb/in rate, will have 90-100lbs seat pressure at they're typical install height on a mag head (~1.6-1.62" or so), and coil bind at 1.06", so you're looking at about .480-.490 max lift, so they're very comparable to a comp 901 on an LA head.
definitely use some headers, I'd probably get the summit or flowtech ones based on price (flowtech ones are $280 ceramic coated from summit).
intake, IIRC the street dominator is a single plane, longish runners, and 318 port size. should be an OK intake, if you already have it, but a better intake for your combo would be a dual plane, I'd probably look to the stock 360 manifold (on the cheap) or an eddie performer (next cheapest, will gain you a little low end torque, but cost you a little peak HP over a stock 360 intake) or a eddie RPM/LD340/air gap (most expensive).
cam. remember, magnums use 1.6 ratio rockers, so to stay "safe" on the lift with the GM springs (without knowing the exact installed height of the springs on YOUR heads), you're looking at a cam with a lobe lift of about .303" max (ends up being .485" lift with 1.6's, or .455" lift with 1.5's.
here's the cams I'd look at:
summit k6901
cheapest, $100 for cam/lifters is 276/286 adv. dur, .441" lift with 1.5 rockers, .470 with mag rockers, 218/228 .050 dur, 114 LSA, 53 degrees overlap. with that much overlap, should give a pretty lopey idle, but the .050 duration numbers being rather tame, should give good drivability and street manners.
MP .450/.455" lift cam 268/272 adv. dur, .45/.455 lift with 1.5 rockers, .480/.485 lift with mag rockers, 228/231 .050 duration, 110 LSA 50 degrees overlap. similar idle to above cam, more .050 duration will give more peak power potential, and provide it higher in the rev range, the narrower LSA will boost some of the midrange torque loss due to the increased .050 duration. should behave very similarly to a comp XE268 in a 9:1 LA 360.
comp XE256 256/268 adv, 212/218 .050, .447/.455 lift w/1.5 rockers, .477/.485" lift with 1.6's, 42 degrees overlap. should have a near stock idle, and make very good torque. should have stronger idle-3500RPM power/torque than the above, and probably won't sacrifice much in the upper RPM regions either. for a heavy B body, and my preference for being stealthy, this is the cam I'd use, especially if you plan on keeping highway friendly (2.76-2.94) gearing.
comp 268H 268/268 adv, 218/218 .050, .454/.454" lift with 1.5's, .484/.484" lift with 1.6's, 110 LSA, 48 degrees overlap. would probably fall somewhere between the summit cam and the XE256 in idle quality and performance.
for reference, I have a stock long block 360, some home bowl ported 360 heads, headers, eddie air gap, 600 eddie carb, and a comp XE262 in my 3900lb 5th ave. I used the head gaskets out of the standard felpro gasket kit (.054" compressed), my calculated compression based on my pistons depth-in-hole is about 7.8:1. my car idles with about 13" vaccuum in gear at 750 RPM (17" in park at about 900 RPM) so it has a very slight lope. my 3900 lb 5th ave, with an A500 tranny, 3.55's and 27" tires moves very good, and can keep up with a LX 300C hemi from a roll, so I'm guessing it's a low 14 second car, maybe nipping high 13's. the XE262 has too much lift on the exhaust lobe for your springs, but the 268H should perform nearly identical (if not better) with the mag 1.6 rockers as an XE262 with the LA 1.5's
patrick is very good for info.
you dont even understand how much this helps me out.id be lost if i didnt have moparts!
|
|
|
Re: NEW DIRECTION IN THE 318 BUILD!Getting a 360
[Re: erick72]
#280833
04/08/09 06:32 PM
04/08/09 06:32 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 580 Detroit,Michigan USA!
erick72
OP
mopar
|
OP
mopar
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 580
Detroit,Michigan USA!
|
Quote:
Quote:
remember guys, erik is 16 and not made of money....I guess I don't see doing a piston swap without a bore job, and you're probably looking at $700+ for some KB107's, rings, getting the new pistons pressed on the rods, & bore & hone....
$175 is a very good deal if the shortblock is a good, running engine, and a fair deal if it needs to be rebuilt. I'd probably tear it down at least checking the conditions of the bearings, and maybe replacing them and the rings...
sounds like you already have the mag heads, so I'd use those. they flow a little better than stock 360 heads with smaller ports (better velocity) and smaller chambers (more compression). with the .028" thick MP or MR. gasket head gaskets and a 63ish cc mag chamber, you're looking at about 8.7-8.9:1 compression with stock 360 pistons. if you didn't have them, the stock 360 heads aren't bad, either. definitely use the GM3100 springs/retainers and the mag locks--comp doesn't have a recommendation for springs for mag heads, because they don't make any retainers for them....but the GM springs are a good generic performance spring, in the regards that they're 330-365 lb/in rate, will have 90-100lbs seat pressure at they're typical install height on a mag head (~1.6-1.62" or so), and coil bind at 1.06", so you're looking at about .480-.490 max lift, so they're very comparable to a comp 901 on an LA head.
definitely use some headers, I'd probably get the summit or flowtech ones based on price (flowtech ones are $280 ceramic coated from summit).
intake, IIRC the street dominator is a single plane, longish runners, and 318 port size. should be an OK intake, if you already have it, but a better intake for your combo would be a dual plane, I'd probably look to the stock 360 manifold (on the cheap) or an eddie performer (next cheapest, will gain you a little low end torque, but cost you a little peak HP over a stock 360 intake) or a eddie RPM/LD340/air gap (most expensive).
cam. remember, magnums use 1.6 ratio rockers, so to stay "safe" on the lift with the GM springs (without knowing the exact installed height of the springs on YOUR heads), you're looking at a cam with a lobe lift of about .303" max (ends up being .485" lift with 1.6's, or .455" lift with 1.5's.
here's the cams I'd look at:
summit k6901
cheapest, $100 for cam/lifters is 276/286 adv. dur, .441" lift with 1.5 rockers, .470 with mag rockers, 218/228 .050 dur, 114 LSA, 53 degrees overlap. with that much overlap, should give a pretty lopey idle, but the .050 duration numbers being rather tame, should give good drivability and street manners.
MP .450/.455" lift cam 268/272 adv. dur, .45/.455 lift with 1.5 rockers, .480/.485 lift with mag rockers, 228/231 .050 duration, 110 LSA 50 degrees overlap. similar idle to above cam, more .050 duration will give more peak power potential, and provide it higher in the rev range, the narrower LSA will boost some of the midrange torque loss due to the increased .050 duration. should behave very similarly to a comp XE268 in a 9:1 LA 360.
comp XE256 256/268 adv, 212/218 .050, .447/.455 lift w/1.5 rockers, .477/.485" lift with 1.6's, 42 degrees overlap. should have a near stock idle, and make very good torque. should have stronger idle-3500RPM power/torque than the above, and probably won't sacrifice much in the upper RPM regions either. for a heavy B body, and my preference for being stealthy, this is the cam I'd use, especially if you plan on keeping highway friendly (2.76-2.94) gearing.
comp 268H 268/268 adv, 218/218 .050, .454/.454" lift with 1.5's, .484/.484" lift with 1.6's, 110 LSA, 48 degrees overlap. would probably fall somewhere between the summit cam and the XE256 in idle quality and performance.
for reference, I have a stock long block 360, some home bowl ported 360 heads, headers, eddie air gap, 600 eddie carb, and a comp XE262 in my 3900lb 5th ave. I used the head gaskets out of the standard felpro gasket kit (.054" compressed), my calculated compression based on my pistons depth-in-hole is about 7.8:1. my car idles with about 13" vaccuum in gear at 750 RPM (17" in park at about 900 RPM) so it has a very slight lope. my 3900 lb 5th ave, with an A500 tranny, 3.55's and 27" tires moves very good, and can keep up with a LX 300C hemi from a roll, so I'm guessing it's a low 14 second car, maybe nipping high 13's. the XE262 has too much lift on the exhaust lobe for your springs, but the 268H should perform nearly identical (if not better) with the mag 1.6 rockers as an XE262 with the LA 1.5's
patrick is very good for info.
you dont even understand how much this helps me out.id be lost if i didnt have moparts!
oh yeah.
im getting this 360 that runs but its a truck engine and trans.
besides the oil pan and oil pump what else do i have to change.
someone told me the trans is too short?
|
|
|
Re: NEW DIRECTION IN THE 318 BUILD!Getting a 360
[Re: Jerry]
#280835
04/08/09 10:33 PM
04/08/09 10:33 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 580 Detroit,Michigan USA!
erick72
OP
mopar
|
OP
mopar
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 580
Detroit,Michigan USA!
|
Quote:
its a two wheel drive truck so the trans is the same as the car one.
so its not a short tail one?good!
|
|
|
Re: NEW DIRECTION IN THE 318 BUILD!Getting a 360
[Re: erick72]
#280836
04/09/09 08:41 AM
04/09/09 08:41 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123 Grand Haven, MI
patrick
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
|
if your old tranny is a 904, it may be shorter than the 727, so you may need to shorten your driveshaft.
1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD 1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!*** 2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T 2017 Grand Cherokee Overland 2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
|
|
|
Re: NEW DIRECTION IN THE 318 BUILD!Getting a 360
[Re: patrick]
#280838
04/10/09 12:59 AM
04/10/09 12:59 AM
|
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 580 Detroit,Michigan USA!
erick72
OP
mopar
|
OP
mopar
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 580
Detroit,Michigan USA!
|
oh yeah. would zero decking it or taking a bit off the block help at all? maybe thats a better alternative than new pistons. and prob cheaper
|
|
|
Re: NEW DIRECTION IN THE 318 BUILD!Getting a 360
[Re: erick72]
#280839
04/11/09 11:23 PM
04/11/09 11:23 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 580 Detroit,Michigan USA!
erick72
OP
mopar
|
OP
mopar
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 580
Detroit,Michigan USA!
|
Quote:
oh yeah.
would zero decking it or taking a bit off the block help at all?
maybe thats a better alternative than new pistons.
and prob cheaper
|
|
|
Re: NEW DIRECTION IN THE 318 BUILD!Getting a 360
[Re: erick72]
#280840
04/12/09 12:28 AM
04/12/09 12:28 AM
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318 Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo
Too Many Posts
|
Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
|
Quote:
oh yeah.
would zero decking it or taking a bit off the block help at all?
maybe thats a better alternative than new pistons.
and prob cheaper
That would involve completely disassembeling the motor and sending it to your machine shop. Somehow I don't think that's exactly where you want to spend your money. You are better off spending your money elsewhere. I'd only ever deck a block if I was doing a full rebuild to it.
|
|
|
Re: NEW DIRECTION IN THE 318 BUILD!Getting a 360
[Re: DaytonaTurbo]
#280841
04/13/09 12:11 AM
04/13/09 12:11 AM
|
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 580 Detroit,Michigan USA!
erick72
OP
mopar
|
OP
mopar
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 580
Detroit,Michigan USA!
|
yeah thats true.i thought they could just do it with the pistons still in it. so the milling of the magnum heads,the biggest cam i can get with the oil through setup lifters and pushrods,stock 360 intake,new edelbrock carb? what do you think i would be at compression wise? i think this is the biggest cam i can get with the stock magnum valve springs from what hotroddave was telling me.do you also think this setup has the oil through setup lifters? http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=SUM%2DK6901&autoview=sku
Last edited by erick72; 04/13/09 12:15 AM.
|
|
|
|
|