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NEW DIRECTION IN THE 318 BUILD!Getting a 360

Posted By: erick72

NEW DIRECTION IN THE 318 BUILD!Getting a 360 - 04/08/09 12:00 AM

well as they say theres no replacement for displacment.

well i found a 360 way on the other side of the state and the guy said he would drop it off to me for a grand total including the engine for 175 bucks.

did i do good?its a 77 model year 360 out of a cordoba or something.

im getting it next friday after this one coming up.


so now that im getting a 360 what is a good combo.

im getting some magnum heads drilled for an la intake and there milled 30 over and ported a little also.

then of course headers,4 barrel carb,4 barrel intake,new cam.

what do you think ill be pushing out with this combo?

am in the right direction to a good street car or no?


thank you guys at moparts.dont know what id do without MOPARTS
Posted By: myidwastook

Re: NEW DIRECTION IN THE 318 BUILD!Getting a 360 - 04/08/09 12:06 AM

the 318 is an engine that will last your whole life. but the 360 is a bit more hi-po, though you can easily build a decent 318 too. if you can fall out of bed in the morning you can get 400 horses out of that 360 (and a whole lot more if you really wanted it), with just run of the mill aftermarket parts. good luck to you brother
Posted By: GTX MATT

Re: NEW DIRECTION IN THE 318 BUILD!Getting a 360 - 04/08/09 12:12 AM

1000 for a 360 seems a bit steep, is it rebuilt?

It will be a low compression engine if its not, but still a better starting point than the 318. Youd probably be better off to spend money upping the compression than on the Magnum heads depending on how much they cost, the 360 heads flow decently. If you can get 9:1 compression, with headers, aftermarket intake and 650 carb, and a Comp XE268 350 horse would be no problem.
Posted By: 70AARcuda

Re: NEW DIRECTION IN THE 318 BUILD!Getting a 360 - 04/08/09 12:15 AM

Quote:

1000 for a 360 seems a bit steep, is it rebuilt?

It will be a low compression engine if its not, but still a better starting point than the 318. Youd probably be better off to spend money upping the compression than on the Magnum heads depending on how much they cost, the 360 heads flow decently. If you can get 9:1 compression, with headers, aftermarket intake and 650 carb, and a Comp XE268 350 horse would be no problem.




it think he said the grand total is 175...not paying a grand..
Posted By: MoparforLife

Re: NEW DIRECTION IN THE 318 BUILD!Getting a 360 - 04/08/09 12:17 AM

Quote:

1000 for a 360 seems a bit steep, is it rebuilt?




where did that number come from??? He said $175.00 delivered where I read it.
Posted By: erick72

Re: NEW DIRECTION IN THE 318 BUILD!Getting a 360 - 04/08/09 12:19 AM

Quote:

1000 for a 360 seems a bit steep, is it rebuilt?

It will be a low compression engine if its not, but still a better starting point than the 318. Youd probably be better off to spend money upping the compression than on the Magnum heads depending on how much they cost, the 360 heads flow decently. If you can get 9:1 compression, with headers, aftermarket intake and 650 carb, and a Comp XE268 350 horse would be no problem.




yep 175 bucks

and so the 250 bucks i am spending on these magnum heads isnt worth it?
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo

Re: NEW DIRECTION IN THE 318 BUILD!Getting a 360 - 04/08/09 12:27 AM

It's a little better, but a stock piston smogger 360 is not going to perform terribly much better than a smogger 318 with the same parts on it. It's a step in the right direction, but in a big b-body car still not going to be a ground pounder. Is the engine even usable? Without hearing the engine run IMO you need to tear into it and see what's what and what needs replacing.
Posted By: myidwastook

Re: NEW DIRECTION IN THE 318 BUILD!Getting a 360 - 04/08/09 12:29 AM

even if it did run your best bet is to go through it. better to do it now, than have to do it 500 miles down the road! plus i like to know whats in my engines
Posted By: sharpie

Re: NEW DIRECTION IN THE 318 BUILD!Getting a 360 - 04/08/09 12:30 AM

the thing about Magnum heads is, if they're stock and don't have hardened valve seats, they're almost sure to have cracks. Small cracks aren't usually an issue mechanically, but why pay $250 for a set of heads that could have problems, when you could buy a set of RHS heads for $335.16/ea. The RHS heads have better flow, tighter numbers, dry exhaust bolt holes, and better side casting without freeze plugs.

http://www.compperformancegroupstores.co...Code=ChryMagnum

The main point is, if you have to have work done on the stock heads, OOTB RHS heads are just as cheap.
Posted By: GTX MATT

Re: NEW DIRECTION IN THE 318 BUILD!Getting a 360 - 04/08/09 12:43 AM

Oh ALRIGHT, I thought he said for a grand!

250 isnt too much for the heads. If its a low mileage engine without alot of ridge though you may be better off to knock the ridge off, hone it, and buy some pistons to get the compression up nice and high. It will be in the low 8s or maybe even high 7s most likely.

You gotta draw the line someplace though and the compression wont be much lower than your 318, if you throw the same parts at it as you would the 318 you will probably have 15 horse more and 30 ft lbs of torque more, as well as more torque at low RPM and a flatter torque curve.
Posted By: erick72

Re: NEW DIRECTION IN THE 318 BUILD!Getting a 360 - 04/08/09 12:45 AM

Quote:

the thing about Magnum heads is, if they're stock and don't have hardened valve seats, they're almost sure to have cracks. Small cracks aren't usually an issue mechanically, but why pay $250 for a set of heads that could have problems, when you could buy a set of RHS heads for $335.16/ea. The RHS heads have better flow, tighter numbers, dry exhaust bolt holes, and better side casting without freeze plugs.

http://www.compperformancegroupstores.co...Code=ChryMagnum

The main point is, if you have to have work done on the stock heads, OOTB RHS heads are just as cheap.




the heads a member has.has no cracks and there at the machine shop now being milled.

they have hardended seats.why wouldnt they.the magnum engine was a 92-03 engine.no lead gas thn.lol
Posted By: erick72

Re: NEW DIRECTION IN THE 318 BUILD!Getting a 360 - 04/08/09 12:47 AM

Quote:

Oh ALRIGHT, I thought he said for a grand!

250 isnt too much for the heads. If its a low mileage engine without alot of ridge though you may be better off to knock the ridge off, hone it, and buy some pistons to get the compression up nice and high. It will be in the low 8s or maybe even high 7s most likely.




wait is it even worth it then?you said before with my 318 combo i could get 9 to 1 compression?
Posted By: GTX MATT

Re: NEW DIRECTION IN THE 318 BUILD!Getting a 360 - 04/08/09 12:51 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Oh ALRIGHT, I thought he said for a grand!

250 isnt too much for the heads. If its a low mileage engine without alot of ridge though you may be better off to knock the ridge off, hone it, and buy some pistons to get the compression up nice and high. It will be in the low 8s or maybe even high 7s most likely.




wait is it even worth it then?you said before with my 318 combo i could get 9 to 1 compression?




I said IF YOU could get 9:1 compression. To me the 360 is a better starting point, especially with stock heads because the 360 heads will flow better than your 318 heads (theyre basically 340 heads). If it were my engine Id open it up, if it doesnt have much ridge Id knock the ridge off, put in some KB Hyper pistons to get 9.5:1 compression, and slide in an XE268, RPM intake, 600 or 650 carb, and headers, and you will have more power than a 340 would with the same mods.
Posted By: erick72

Re: NEW DIRECTION IN THE 318 BUILD!Getting a 360 - 04/08/09 12:59 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Oh ALRIGHT, I thought he said for a grand!

250 isnt too much for the heads. If its a low mileage engine without alot of ridge though you may be better off to knock the ridge off, hone it, and buy some pistons to get the compression up nice and high. It will be in the low 8s or maybe even high 7s most likely.




wait is it even worth it then?you said before with my 318 combo i could get 9 to 1 compression?




I said IF YOU could get 9:1 compression. To me the 360 is a better starting point, especially with stock heads because the 360 heads will flow better than your 318 heads (theyre basically 340 heads). If it were my engine Id open it up, if it doesnt have much ridge Id knock the ridge off, put in some KB Hyper pistons to get 9.5:1 compression, and slide in an XE268, RPM intake, 600 or 650 carb, and headers, and you will have more power than a 340 would with the same mods.




well i plan on keeping the stock bore.and would you have a link to the pistons?
Posted By: sharpie

Re: NEW DIRECTION IN THE 318 BUILD!Getting a 360 - 04/08/09 01:01 AM

believe me, the stock magnum seats aren't hard enough. Having seen an entire set of heads wiped, and having done more research than most on magnum combos, I know that new valve seats are necessary. If you already have the heads, great, just be forewarned.

As for compression, you can easily get 9.5:1, which is where I'm at, with new pistons, rings, and a thin head gasket. Just watch out for piston to valve clearance onceyou get close to zero deck.
Posted By: erick72

Re: NEW DIRECTION IN THE 318 BUILD!Getting a 360 - 04/08/09 02:14 AM

Quote:

believe me, the stock magnum seats aren't hard enough. Having seen an entire set of heads wiped, and having done more research than most on magnum combos, I know that new valve seats are necessary. If you already have the heads, great, just be forewarned.

As for compression, you can easily get 9.5:1, which is where I'm at, with new pistons, rings, and a thin head gasket. Just watch out for piston to valve clearance onceyou get close to zero deck.





i think i can get at least 350 horse with the combo im doing

1.360 engine all the smog bullsit off.

2.magnum heads,non cracked,milled 30 over ported slightly also.thin head gasket.

3.headers

4.holley street dominator sigle plane alumnium intake,4 barrel 650 cfm carb

5.comp cams 270 magnum cam

6.gm V6 valve springs



thats it.

anything else you guys think would help?
Posted By: 340duster340

Re: NEW DIRECTION IN THE 318 BUILD!Getting a 360 - 04/08/09 02:23 AM

nice score.

keep it simple, good cam, pistons, and factory "J" heads, you'll have more than enough power.
Posted By: Dos Snails

Re: NEW DIRECTION IN THE 318 BUILD!Getting a 360 - 04/08/09 02:29 AM

Don't forget a B&M 360 flex plate , Or weld some weights on your converter
Posted By: myidwastook

Re: NEW DIRECTION IN THE 318 BUILD!Getting a 360 - 04/08/09 02:33 AM

go wild. throw you a 150 horse bottle on there, your mom will be proud
Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: NEW DIRECTION IN THE 318 BUILD!Getting a 360 - 04/08/09 02:41 AM

I'd suggest starting w 360 eng: magnum heads/the right kb pistons/head gaskets to get .035-.040 quench(measure carefully each piston) & your MEASURED CR in the low 10's(preferred CR will need adjusting depending on your cam/fuel selection.
Posted By: Jerry

Re: NEW DIRECTION IN THE 318 BUILD!Getting a 360 - 04/08/09 02:50 AM

ok there are a few problems i noticed with your list.

1.360 engine all the smog bullsit off.
ok no big deal.

2.magnum heads,non cracked,milled 30 over ported slightly also.thin head gasket.
i wouldn't spend the money here just yet. get the pistons first and use the stock heads. like mentioned before the stock magnums are pretty good flow wise but the seats tend to develop cracks. i would really wait and put aluminum heads on it anyway.

3.headers
yes good cheap headers will be fine for a budget build.

4.holley street dominator sigle plane alumnium intake,4 barrel 650 cfm carb
no single plane intake. this is a bad move for a 360 you definitely want to stick with a dual plane. the 650 is a good carb, but i think a vacuum secondary would be perfect.

5.comp cams 270 magnum cam
this cam maybe a little big with stock pistons and may bleed off too much cylinder pressure.


6.gm V6 valve springs
don't need these if you run the stock heads. i don't know what the lift is on the 270 cam but it probably has a set of springs that are recommended and i'd get those.
Posted By: myidwastook

Re: NEW DIRECTION IN THE 318 BUILD!Getting a 360 - 04/08/09 03:10 AM

wouldnt the j heads be a better bet here? simpler and you can still score the 2.02 valve sized ones for decent prices. just me, but i admittedly havent used the magnum heads on an older engine so i have no basis of comparison.
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo

Re: NEW DIRECTION IN THE 318 BUILD!Getting a 360 - 04/08/09 03:11 AM

Quote:


i think i can get at least 350 horse with the combo im doing




I don't know about that. I know of a few magnum headed 360's that dynoed 375hp but they had more compression than you and more cam. With the combo you have, if you are trying to do this to an old tired smogger engine I'm thinking more like 300-330hp tops.
Posted By: sharpie

Re: NEW DIRECTION IN THE 318 BUILD!Getting a 360 - 04/08/09 03:53 AM

I think if you bumped compression to 9.5, put in a solidly agressive cam, and went with a dual plane, you'd have something real nice and a ton of torque to boot. I know mine's a full roller, but the numbers are showing 410hp or so with .030 over hyper pistons, a mildly aggressive .052 lift cam, and RHS heads. With your combo, I don't think 375hp is out of the question.
Posted By: erick72

Re: NEW DIRECTION IN THE 318 BUILD!Getting a 360 - 04/08/09 03:55 AM

Quote:

Quote:


i think i can get at least 350 horse with the combo im doing




I don't know about that. I know of a few magnum headed 360's that dynoed 375hp but they had more compression than you and more cam. With the combo you have, if you are trying to do this to an old tired smogger engine I'm thinking more like 300-330hp tops.




well now im getting an engine with 85,000 miles off an awesome moparts member with a 727 trans


im really excited now!i cant wait!
Posted By: MonGoo$e

Re: NEW DIRECTION IN THE 318 BUILD!Getting a 360 - 04/08/09 04:09 AM

I had a '72 360 with 915 J heads 1.88 intakes and 1.60 valves, I simply had the heads rebuilt and a valve job..no porting..etc. I out a double roller chain in it and a mild cam. Had it degreed in. I had stock Dished pistons installed..came out to like 8 something compression.
LD340 Edelbrock intake (long discontinued you can use an Edelbrock airgap RPM though.

But I had an 850 cfm street/strip Thermoquad and the LD340 manifold was modified to fit this, as would an AirGap would need.

I had headers, H pipe, glasspipes and it was all in a Challenger. Car had screaming mid range with a 2.94 gear.

I suspect if I atleast 9 in the compression range and atleast a 3.23 it would have really been fun.

I'd do something similar to what I did..and try a different piston. maybe even upgrade to 2.02 intake etc.
Posted By: GTX MATT

Re: NEW DIRECTION IN THE 318 BUILD!Getting a 360 - 04/08/09 06:54 AM

On a side note as a question for Eric, will the Magnum heads even flow better than the 360 heads? I thought they were kind of restrictive and more suited for a 318.
Posted By: MoparforLife

Re: NEW DIRECTION IN THE 318 BUILD!Getting a 360 - 04/08/09 11:07 AM

Quote:

nice score.

keep it simple, good cam, pistons, and factory "J" heads, you'll have more than enough power.



Amen.
You can make good power with nothing but a cam switch and using the right valve springs for the cam. Even using stock pistons you can make that 360 really wake up. A good intake like and LD340 or Airgap and 650 or 700 Carb and it will come alive. Believe me.
Posted By: patrick

Re: NEW DIRECTION IN THE 318 BUILD!Getting a 360 - 04/08/09 02:06 PM

remember guys, erik is 16 and not made of money....I guess I don't see doing a piston swap without a bore job, and you're probably looking at $700+ for some KB107's, rings, getting the new pistons pressed on the rods, & bore & hone....


$175 is a very good deal if the shortblock is a good, running engine, and a fair deal if it needs to be rebuilt. I'd probably tear it down at least checking the conditions of the bearings, and maybe replacing them and the rings...

sounds like you already have the mag heads, so I'd use those. they flow a little better than stock 360 heads with smaller ports (better velocity) and smaller chambers (more compression). with the .028" thick MP or MR. gasket head gaskets and a 63ish cc mag chamber, you're looking at about 8.7-8.9:1 compression with stock 360 pistons. if you didn't have them, the stock 360 heads aren't bad, either. definitely use the GM3100 springs/retainers and the mag locks--comp doesn't have a recommendation for springs for mag heads, because they don't make any retainers for them....but the GM springs are a good generic performance spring, in the regards that they're 330-365 lb/in rate, will have 90-100lbs seat pressure at they're typical install height on a mag head (~1.6-1.62" or so), and coil bind at 1.06", so you're looking at about .480-.490 max lift, so they're very comparable to a comp 901 on an LA head.

definitely use some headers, I'd probably get the summit or flowtech ones based on price (flowtech ones are $280 ceramic coated from summit).

intake, IIRC the street dominator is a single plane, longish runners, and 318 port size. should be an OK intake, if you already have it, but a better intake for your combo would be a dual plane, I'd probably look to the stock 360 manifold (on the cheap) or an eddie performer (next cheapest, will gain you a little low end torque, but cost you a little peak HP over a stock 360 intake) or a eddie RPM/LD340/air gap (most expensive).

cam. remember, magnums use 1.6 ratio rockers, so to stay "safe" on the lift with the GM springs (without knowing the exact installed height of the springs on YOUR heads), you're looking at a cam with a lobe lift of about .303" max (ends up being .485" lift with 1.6's, or .455" lift with 1.5's.

here's the cams I'd look at:


summit k6901

cheapest, $100 for cam/lifters is 276/286 adv. dur, .441" lift with 1.5 rockers, .470 with mag rockers, 218/228 .050 dur, 114 LSA, 53 degrees overlap. with that much overlap, should give a pretty lopey idle, but the .050 duration numbers being rather tame, should give good drivability and street manners.

MP .450/.455" lift cam
268/272 adv. dur, .45/.455 lift with 1.5 rockers, .480/.485 lift with mag rockers, 228/231 .050 duration, 110 LSA 50 degrees overlap. similar idle to above cam, more .050 duration will give more peak power potential, and provide it higher in the rev range, the narrower LSA will boost some of the midrange torque loss due to the increased .050 duration. should behave very similarly to a comp XE268 in a 9:1 LA 360.

comp XE256 256/268 adv, 212/218 .050, .447/.455 lift w/1.5 rockers, .477/.485" lift with 1.6's, 42 degrees overlap. should have a near stock idle, and make very good torque. should have stronger idle-3500RPM power/torque than the above, and probably won't sacrifice much in the upper RPM regions either. for a heavy B body, and my preference for being stealthy, this is the cam I'd use, especially if you plan on keeping highway friendly (2.76-2.94) gearing.

comp 268H 268/268 adv, 218/218 .050, .454/.454" lift with 1.5's, .484/.484" lift with 1.6's, 110 LSA, 48 degrees overlap. would probably fall somewhere between the summit cam and the XE256 in idle quality and performance.


for reference, I have a stock long block 360, some home bowl ported 360 heads, headers, eddie air gap, 600 eddie carb, and a comp XE262 in my 3900lb 5th ave. I used the head gaskets out of the standard felpro gasket kit (.054" compressed), my calculated compression based on my pistons depth-in-hole is about 7.8:1. my car idles with about 13" vaccuum in gear at 750 RPM (17" in park at about 900 RPM) so it has a very slight lope. my 3900 lb 5th ave, with an A500 tranny, 3.55's and 27" tires moves very good, and can keep up with a LX 300C hemi from a roll, so I'm guessing it's a low 14 second car, maybe nipping high 13's. the XE262 has too much lift on the exhaust lobe for your springs, but the 268H should perform nearly identical (if not better) with the mag 1.6 rockers as an XE262 with the LA 1.5's
Posted By: jackel440

Re: NEW DIRECTION IN THE 318 BUILD!Getting a 360 - 04/08/09 04:22 PM

there is some very good info in this thread.I am also going to do a cheap 360 if i can swing it.gonna keep my eye on this
Posted By: erick72

Re: NEW DIRECTION IN THE 318 BUILD!Getting a 360 - 04/08/09 08:16 PM

Quote:

remember guys, erik is 16 and not made of money....I guess I don't see doing a piston swap without a bore job, and you're probably looking at $700+ for some KB107's, rings, getting the new pistons pressed on the rods, & bore & hone....


$175 is a very good deal if the shortblock is a good, running engine, and a fair deal if it needs to be rebuilt. I'd probably tear it down at least checking the conditions of the bearings, and maybe replacing them and the rings...

sounds like you already have the mag heads, so I'd use those. they flow a little better than stock 360 heads with smaller ports (better velocity) and smaller chambers (more compression). with the .028" thick MP or MR. gasket head gaskets and a 63ish cc mag chamber, you're looking at about 8.7-8.9:1 compression with stock 360 pistons. if you didn't have them, the stock 360 heads aren't bad, either. definitely use the GM3100 springs/retainers and the mag locks--comp doesn't have a recommendation for springs for mag heads, because they don't make any retainers for them....but the GM springs are a good generic performance spring, in the regards that they're 330-365 lb/in rate, will have 90-100lbs seat pressure at they're typical install height on a mag head (~1.6-1.62" or so), and coil bind at 1.06", so you're looking at about .480-.490 max lift, so they're very comparable to a comp 901 on an LA head.

definitely use some headers, I'd probably get the summit or flowtech ones based on price (flowtech ones are $280 ceramic coated from summit).

intake, IIRC the street dominator is a single plane, longish runners, and 318 port size. should be an OK intake, if you already have it, but a better intake for your combo would be a dual plane, I'd probably look to the stock 360 manifold (on the cheap) or an eddie performer (next cheapest, will gain you a little low end torque, but cost you a little peak HP over a stock 360 intake) or a eddie RPM/LD340/air gap (most expensive).

cam. remember, magnums use 1.6 ratio rockers, so to stay "safe" on the lift with the GM springs (without knowing the exact installed height of the springs on YOUR heads), you're looking at a cam with a lobe lift of about .303" max (ends up being .485" lift with 1.6's, or .455" lift with 1.5's.

here's the cams I'd look at:


summit k6901

cheapest, $100 for cam/lifters is 276/286 adv. dur, .441" lift with 1.5 rockers, .470 with mag rockers, 218/228 .050 dur, 114 LSA, 53 degrees overlap. with that much overlap, should give a pretty lopey idle, but the .050 duration numbers being rather tame, should give good drivability and street manners.

MP .450/.455" lift cam
268/272 adv. dur, .45/.455 lift with 1.5 rockers, .480/.485 lift with mag rockers, 228/231 .050 duration, 110 LSA 50 degrees overlap. similar idle to above cam, more .050 duration will give more peak power potential, and provide it higher in the rev range, the narrower LSA will boost some of the midrange torque loss due to the increased .050 duration. should behave very similarly to a comp XE268 in a 9:1 LA 360.

comp XE256 256/268 adv, 212/218 .050, .447/.455 lift w/1.5 rockers, .477/.485" lift with 1.6's, 42 degrees overlap. should have a near stock idle, and make very good torque. should have stronger idle-3500RPM power/torque than the above, and probably won't sacrifice much in the upper RPM regions either. for a heavy B body, and my preference for being stealthy, this is the cam I'd use, especially if you plan on keeping highway friendly (2.76-2.94) gearing.

comp 268H 268/268 adv, 218/218 .050, .454/.454" lift with 1.5's, .484/.484" lift with 1.6's, 110 LSA, 48 degrees overlap. would probably fall somewhere between the summit cam and the XE256 in idle quality and performance.


for reference, I have a stock long block 360, some home bowl ported 360 heads, headers, eddie air gap, 600 eddie carb, and a comp XE262 in my 3900lb 5th ave. I used the head gaskets out of the standard felpro gasket kit (.054" compressed), my calculated compression based on my pistons depth-in-hole is about 7.8:1. my car idles with about 13" vaccuum in gear at 750 RPM (17" in park at about 900 RPM) so it has a very slight lope. my 3900 lb 5th ave, with an A500 tranny, 3.55's and 27" tires moves very good, and can keep up with a LX 300C hemi from a roll, so I'm guessing it's a low 14 second car, maybe nipping high 13's. the XE262 has too much lift on the exhaust lobe for your springs, but the 268H should perform nearly identical (if not better) with the mag 1.6 rockers as an XE262 with the LA 1.5's





patrick is very good for info.

you dont even understand how much this helps me out.id be lost if i didnt have moparts!

Posted By: erick72

Re: NEW DIRECTION IN THE 318 BUILD!Getting a 360 - 04/08/09 10:32 PM

Quote:

Quote:

remember guys, erik is 16 and not made of money....I guess I don't see doing a piston swap without a bore job, and you're probably looking at $700+ for some KB107's, rings, getting the new pistons pressed on the rods, & bore & hone....


$175 is a very good deal if the shortblock is a good, running engine, and a fair deal if it needs to be rebuilt. I'd probably tear it down at least checking the conditions of the bearings, and maybe replacing them and the rings...

sounds like you already have the mag heads, so I'd use those. they flow a little better than stock 360 heads with smaller ports (better velocity) and smaller chambers (more compression). with the .028" thick MP or MR. gasket head gaskets and a 63ish cc mag chamber, you're looking at about 8.7-8.9:1 compression with stock 360 pistons. if you didn't have them, the stock 360 heads aren't bad, either. definitely use the GM3100 springs/retainers and the mag locks--comp doesn't have a recommendation for springs for mag heads, because they don't make any retainers for them....but the GM springs are a good generic performance spring, in the regards that they're 330-365 lb/in rate, will have 90-100lbs seat pressure at they're typical install height on a mag head (~1.6-1.62" or so), and coil bind at 1.06", so you're looking at about .480-.490 max lift, so they're very comparable to a comp 901 on an LA head.

definitely use some headers, I'd probably get the summit or flowtech ones based on price (flowtech ones are $280 ceramic coated from summit).

intake, IIRC the street dominator is a single plane, longish runners, and 318 port size. should be an OK intake, if you already have it, but a better intake for your combo would be a dual plane, I'd probably look to the stock 360 manifold (on the cheap) or an eddie performer (next cheapest, will gain you a little low end torque, but cost you a little peak HP over a stock 360 intake) or a eddie RPM/LD340/air gap (most expensive).

cam. remember, magnums use 1.6 ratio rockers, so to stay "safe" on the lift with the GM springs (without knowing the exact installed height of the springs on YOUR heads), you're looking at a cam with a lobe lift of about .303" max (ends up being .485" lift with 1.6's, or .455" lift with 1.5's.

here's the cams I'd look at:


summit k6901

cheapest, $100 for cam/lifters is 276/286 adv. dur, .441" lift with 1.5 rockers, .470 with mag rockers, 218/228 .050 dur, 114 LSA, 53 degrees overlap. with that much overlap, should give a pretty lopey idle, but the .050 duration numbers being rather tame, should give good drivability and street manners.

MP .450/.455" lift cam
268/272 adv. dur, .45/.455 lift with 1.5 rockers, .480/.485 lift with mag rockers, 228/231 .050 duration, 110 LSA 50 degrees overlap. similar idle to above cam, more .050 duration will give more peak power potential, and provide it higher in the rev range, the narrower LSA will boost some of the midrange torque loss due to the increased .050 duration. should behave very similarly to a comp XE268 in a 9:1 LA 360.

comp XE256 256/268 adv, 212/218 .050, .447/.455 lift w/1.5 rockers, .477/.485" lift with 1.6's, 42 degrees overlap. should have a near stock idle, and make very good torque. should have stronger idle-3500RPM power/torque than the above, and probably won't sacrifice much in the upper RPM regions either. for a heavy B body, and my preference for being stealthy, this is the cam I'd use, especially if you plan on keeping highway friendly (2.76-2.94) gearing.

comp 268H 268/268 adv, 218/218 .050, .454/.454" lift with 1.5's, .484/.484" lift with 1.6's, 110 LSA, 48 degrees overlap. would probably fall somewhere between the summit cam and the XE256 in idle quality and performance.


for reference, I have a stock long block 360, some home bowl ported 360 heads, headers, eddie air gap, 600 eddie carb, and a comp XE262 in my 3900lb 5th ave. I used the head gaskets out of the standard felpro gasket kit (.054" compressed), my calculated compression based on my pistons depth-in-hole is about 7.8:1. my car idles with about 13" vaccuum in gear at 750 RPM (17" in park at about 900 RPM) so it has a very slight lope. my 3900 lb 5th ave, with an A500 tranny, 3.55's and 27" tires moves very good, and can keep up with a LX 300C hemi from a roll, so I'm guessing it's a low 14 second car, maybe nipping high 13's. the XE262 has too much lift on the exhaust lobe for your springs, but the 268H should perform nearly identical (if not better) with the mag 1.6 rockers as an XE262 with the LA 1.5's





patrick is very good for info.

you dont even understand how much this helps me out.id be lost if i didnt have moparts!


oh yeah.

im getting this 360 that runs but its a truck engine and trans.

besides the oil pan and oil pump what else do i have to change.

someone told me the trans is too short?




Posted By: Jerry

Re: NEW DIRECTION IN THE 318 BUILD!Getting a 360 - 04/09/09 01:38 AM

its a two wheel drive truck so the trans is the same as the car one.
Posted By: erick72

Re: NEW DIRECTION IN THE 318 BUILD!Getting a 360 - 04/09/09 02:33 AM

Quote:

its a two wheel drive truck so the trans is the same as the car one.




so its not a short tail one?good!
Posted By: patrick

Re: NEW DIRECTION IN THE 318 BUILD!Getting a 360 - 04/09/09 12:41 PM

if your old tranny is a 904, it may be shorter than the 727, so you may need to shorten your driveshaft.
Posted By: erick72

Re: NEW DIRECTION IN THE 318 BUILD!Getting a 360 - 04/09/09 08:02 PM

yeah well thats no prob.theres a driveshaft shop down the road.they could cut it for like 50 bucks.
Posted By: erick72

Re: NEW DIRECTION IN THE 318 BUILD!Getting a 360 - 04/10/09 04:59 AM

oh yeah.

would zero decking it or taking a bit off the block help at all?

maybe thats a better alternative than new pistons.

and prob cheaper
Posted By: erick72

Re: NEW DIRECTION IN THE 318 BUILD!Getting a 360 - 04/12/09 03:23 AM

Quote:

oh yeah.

would zero decking it or taking a bit off the block help at all?

maybe thats a better alternative than new pistons.

and prob cheaper


Posted By: DaytonaTurbo

Re: NEW DIRECTION IN THE 318 BUILD!Getting a 360 - 04/12/09 04:28 AM

Quote:

oh yeah.

would zero decking it or taking a bit off the block help at all?

maybe thats a better alternative than new pistons.

and prob cheaper




That would involve completely disassembeling the motor and sending it to your machine shop. Somehow I don't think that's exactly where you want to spend your money. You are better off spending your money elsewhere. I'd only ever deck a block if I was doing a full rebuild to it.
Posted By: erick72

Re: NEW DIRECTION IN THE 318 BUILD!Getting a 360 - 04/13/09 04:11 AM

yeah thats true.i thought they could just do it with the pistons still in it.

so the milling of the magnum heads,the biggest cam i can get with the oil through setup lifters and pushrods,stock 360 intake,new edelbrock carb?

what do you think i would be at compression wise?

i think this is the biggest cam i can get with the stock magnum valve springs from what hotroddave was telling me.do you also think this setup has the oil through setup lifters?

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=SUM%2DK6901&autoview=sku
Posted By: patrick

Re: NEW DIRECTION IN THE 318 BUILD!Getting a 360 - 04/13/09 12:26 PM

any aftermarket cam will have the pushrod oiling lifters except maybe mopar performance ones. everyone else (comp, crane, summit, lunati) lists the same lifters for AMC and chrysler.

w/o decking or new pistons, with the mag heads and stock LA shortblock, if you use the think Mr. gasket/MP head gaskets (.028" thick) and your mag heads are stock 63ccish chambers, you'll be at about 8.6-8.7:1 compression.

decking will most likely be more expensive than the cost of the pistons, but then, you probably would want to actually get the block bored if you're buying new slugs.

I'd be leery of even that much lift on stock mag valve springs. remember, on the magnum engine that will be .470/.470 lift. I'd use the GM 3100 springs/retainers with that cam.
Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: NEW DIRECTION IN THE 318 BUILD!Getting a 360 - 04/13/09 01:11 PM

Quote:

what do you think i would be at compression wise?


when you mock everything up & find your deck height/head cc's this is an easy to use CR calculator. http://kb-silvolite.com/calc.php?
Posted By: erick72

Re: NEW DIRECTION IN THE 318 BUILD!Getting a 360 - 04/13/09 05:48 PM

Quote:

any aftermarket cam will have the pushrod oiling lifters except maybe mopar performance ones. everyone else (comp, crane, summit, lunati) lists the same lifters for AMC and chrysler.

w/o decking or new pistons, with the mag heads and stock LA shortblock, if you use the think Mr. gasket/MP head gaskets (.028" thick) and your mag heads are stock 63ccish chambers, you'll be at about 8.6-8.7:1 compression.

decking will most likely be more expensive than the cost of the pistons, but then, you probably would want to actually get the block bored if you're buying new slugs.

I'd be leery of even that much lift on stock mag valve springs. remember, on the magnum engine that will be .470/.470 lift. I'd use the GM 3100 springs/retainers with that cam.




how mch horse you think i can get?
Posted By: patrick

Re: NEW DIRECTION IN THE 318 BUILD!Getting a 360 - 04/13/09 05:57 PM

that cam w/1.6 rockers will end up having specs in .050 duration and lift similar to a comp XE262.

dulcich made 335hp/400tq with a stock long block 360 from the early 80's, hooker headers, and a comp XE262.

see article:
http://compcams.com/Community/Articles/Details.asp?ID=-409383413

with the mag heads giving slightly better flow, more velocity, and 3/4 of a point higher compression, I'd probably put the motor in the 350-355HP/410-420tq range as long as the bottom end is in good shape with good ring seal.
Posted By: erick72

Re: NEW DIRECTION IN THE 318 BUILD!Getting a 360 - 04/13/09 06:36 PM

Quote:

that cam w/1.6 rockers will end up having specs in .050 duration and lift similar to a comp XE262.

dulcich made 335hp/400tq with a stock long block 360 from the early 80's, hooker headers, and a comp XE262.

see article:
http://compcams.com/Community/Articles/Details.asp?ID=-409383413

with the mag heads giving slightly better flow, more velocity, and 3/4 of a point higher compression, I'd probably put the motor in the 350-355HP/410-420tq range as long as the bottom end is in good shape with good ring seal.





you think my cam the summit k6901 is good enough?like identical to that one in that article you gave me?
Posted By: HotRodDave

Re: NEW DIRECTION IN THE 318 BUILD!Getting a 360 - 04/13/09 06:47 PM

Patrick I had the heads milled here for him .030 but I was getting ready to CC them after that and dropped my beaker(glass).

I just did a tad bit of a bowl clean up and opened the PR pinch a few thou on either side.

I would think he would be OK with the stock springs and that small of a cam becasue the liftes are so much lighter than the stock rollers. Mabey I am wrong
Posted By: erick72

Re: NEW DIRECTION IN THE 318 BUILD!Getting a 360 - 04/13/09 06:55 PM

maybe it would be better to explain what i want lol.

i would like that lumpy muscle car tone,enough cam to get 350 hp,but small enough of a cam to accept the magnum valve springs.

does this help at all?from the sound of it the summit k6901 would fit two of the three the one idk bou tis it working with the gm valve springs.
Posted By: patrick

Re: NEW DIRECTION IN THE 318 BUILD!Getting a 360 - 04/13/09 07:04 PM

comp XE262 is 262/270 adv, 218/224 .050, .462/.470 lift, 110 LSA, 46 degrees overlap.

the summit K6901 (with magnum 1.6 ratio rockers) is 276/286 adv, 218/228 .050 duration, .470/.470 lift, 114 LSA, 53 degrees overlap

since .050 duration is near identical, these cams should have similar RPM ranges. the 114 LSA of the summit cam might sacrafice a little low end/midrange torque and carry the powerband slightly higher. the additional 7 degrees of overlap should make the idle lumpier. similar .050 duration and lift numbers mean they should make similar power, if head flow is similar.
Posted By: erick72

Re: NEW DIRECTION IN THE 318 BUILD!Getting a 360 - 04/13/09 07:11 PM

Quote:

comp XE262 is 262/270 adv, 218/224 .050, .462/.470 lift, 110 LSA, 46 degrees overlap.

the summit K6901 (with magnum 1.6 ratio rockers) is 276/286 adv, 218/228 .050 duration, .470/.470 lift, 114 LSA, 53 degrees overlap

since .050 duration is near identical, these cams should have similar RPM ranges. the 114 LSA of the summit cam might sacrafice a little low end/midrange torque and carry the powerband slightly higher. the additional 7 degrees of overlap should make the idle lumpier. similar .050 duration and lift numbers mean they should make similar power, if head flow is similar.





so in ther words the cam is fine then?

thanks patrick in advance for your help.

and you too hotroddave!
Posted By: erick72

Re: NEW DIRECTION IN THE 318 BUILD!Getting a 360 - 04/13/09 07:24 PM

Quote:

that cam w/1.6 rockers will end up having specs in .050 duration and lift similar to a comp XE262.

dulcich made 335hp/400tq with a stock long block 360 from the early 80's, hooker headers, and a comp XE262.

see article:
http://compcams.com/Community/Articles/Details.asp?ID=-409383413

with the mag heads giving slightly better flow, more velocity, and 3/4 of a point higher compression, I'd probably put the motor in the 350-355HP/410-420tq range as long as the bottom end is in good shape with good ring seal.




oh yeah idk if you noticed but you know they made 335 horse with a block bored 40 over.

Posted By: patrick

Re: NEW DIRECTION IN THE 318 BUILD!Getting a 360 - 04/13/09 07:46 PM

the overbore will add 7 cubic inches. it won't really affect power at all, maybe 1-2% at most over a similarly built standard bore engine

condition of the bores (are they round? tapered?), and ring seal quality will have a larger effect on power than .040" more bore will
Posted By: erick72

Re: NEW DIRECTION IN THE 318 BUILD!Getting a 360 - 04/14/09 03:49 AM

Quote:

the overbore will add 7 cubic inches. it won't really affect power at all, maybe 1-2% at most over a similarly built standard bore engine

condition of the bores (are they round? tapered?), and ring seal quality will have a larger effect on power than .040" more bore will




idk yet.waiting till friday to look.
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