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Low deck stroker build opinions #2737798
01/29/20 04:37 PM
01/29/20 04:37 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,260
Las Vegas NV
moparmanjames Offline OP
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moparmanjames  Offline OP
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,260
Las Vegas NV
I'm building a stroker low deck using a Kieth Black block with a bore of 4.53, and I need opinions on which would be a better combination of heads, stroke, rods, and compression.
I have a set of 440-1 heads fully ported with T&D 1.6 ratio rockers, and I have a set Original B-1's with Harland Sharp 1.7 ratio rockers.
Then I'm deciding whether to go with a 4.15 or a 4.25 crankshaft. I'm going to use 2 nitrous plates with a 250 shot on each for about 500hp using a tunnel ram and two dominators.
So basically I want to build an engine for street race competition in the 1/8th mile, leaving on the motor and then hitting it asap depending on wheel spin.
It will be a Dart with a glide a 4.56 gears and I'm shooting for a 5 second flattish 1/8th.

I'm thinking the shorter stroke might be better since Ill be able to use longer rods.

Thanks in advance for your plentiful wisdoms.

Re: Low deck stroker build opinions [Re: moparmanjames] #2737808
01/29/20 05:01 PM
01/29/20 05:01 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,866
Pattison Texas
CSK Offline
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Last edited by csk; 01/29/20 05:01 PM.

1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI
512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim
2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5

Re: Low deck stroker build opinions [Re: CSK] #2737819
01/29/20 06:00 PM
01/29/20 06:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,275
Morrow, OH
markz528 Offline
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I would go for as much stroke and cubic inches as you can.

Last edited by markz528; 01/29/20 06:02 PM.

67 Coronet 500 9.610 @ 139.20 mph
67 Coronet 500 (street car) 14.82 @ 94 mph
69 GTX (clone) - build in progress......
Re: Low deck stroker build opinions [Re: moparmanjames] #2737835
01/29/20 07:16 PM
01/29/20 07:16 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,050
Oregon
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AndyF Online content
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Oregon
Originally Posted by moparmanjames
I'm building a stroker low deck using a Kieth Black block with a bore of 4.53, and I need opinions on which would be a better combination of heads, stroke, rods, and compression.
I have a set of 440-1 heads fully ported with T&D 1.6 ratio rockers, and I have a set Original B-1's with Harland Sharp 1.7 ratio rockers.
Then I'm deciding whether to go with a 4.15 or a 4.25 crankshaft. I'm going to use 2 nitrous plates with a 250 shot on each for about 500hp using a tunnel ram and two dominators.
So basically I want to build an engine for street race competition in the 1/8th mile, leaving on the motor and then hitting it asap depending on wheel spin.
It will be a Dart with a glide a 4.56 gears and I'm shooting for a 5 second flattish 1/8th.

I'm thinking the shorter stroke might be better since Ill be able to use longer rods.

Thanks in advance for your plentiful wisdoms.


RB block I assume so you can use 7.100 long rods with a 4.25 crank and have plenty of room for the piston. So you don't need to use a 4.15 crank for that reason. Besides, there is usually a better selection of cranks at 4.25 than at 4.15. You'll want to use the 2.200 rod journals so be sure to pay attention to that when picking a crank. You're talking about upwards of 1500 hp from the engine so you'll want to be very careful with your choice of parts. Callies crank, Oliver rods, etc. No cheap chinese stuff in an engine like this.

Head choice is a bit tougher. The B1 heads might make a little more power than the 440-1 heads but parts are tougher to come by. If it was me I'd sell the B1 heads and use the money to buy the parts you still need. You can buy a tunnel ram that will bolt on to the 440-1 heads but you can't do that for the B1 heads. The B1 heads would probably need a sheet metal tunnel ram which would add several thousand to the bill.

The T&D rocker arms might be okay but you're getting close to the point where you would want paired rocker arms rather than one big long shaft. You might need to sell the 440-1 heads and use the money to buy a more serious head like the 572. Better talk to your engine builder about that. Good luck.

Re: Low deck stroker build opinions [Re: AndyF] #2737866
01/29/20 08:40 PM
01/29/20 08:40 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,866
Pattison Texas
CSK Offline
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CSK  Offline
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Pattison Texas
Originally Posted by AndyF
Originally Posted by moparmanjames
I'm building a stroker low deck using a Kieth Black block with a bore of 4.53, and I need opinions on which would be a better combination of heads, stroke, rods, and compression.
I have a set of 440-1 heads fully ported with T&D 1.6 ratio rockers, and I have a set Original B-1's with Harland Sharp 1.7 ratio rockers.
Then I'm deciding whether to go with a 4.15 or a 4.25 crankshaft. I'm going to use 2 nitrous plates with a 250 shot on each for about 500hp using a tunnel ram and two dominators.
So basically I want to build an engine for street race competition in the 1/8th mile, leaving on the motor and then hitting it asap depending on wheel spin.
It will be a Dart with a glide a 4.56 gears and I'm shooting for a 5 second flattish 1/8th.

I'm thinking the shorter stroke might be better since Ill be able to use longer rods.

Thanks in advance for your plentiful wisdoms.


RB block I assume so you can use 7.100 long rods with a 4.25 crank and have plenty of room for the piston. So you don't need to use a 4.15 crank for that reason. Besides, there is usually a better selection of cranks at 4.25 than at 4.15. You'll want to use the 2.200 rod journals so be sure to pay attention to that when picking a crank. You're talking about upwards of 1500 hp from the engine so you'll want to be very careful with your choice of parts. Callies crank, Oliver rods, etc. No cheap chinese stuff in an engine like this.

Head choice is a bit tougher. The B1 heads might make a little more power than the 440-1 heads but parts are tougher to come by. If it was me I'd sell the B1 heads and use the money to buy the parts you still need. You can buy a tunnel ram that will bolt on to the 440-1 heads but you can't do that for the B1 heads. The B1 heads would probably need a sheet metal tunnel ram which would add several thousand to the bill.

The T&D rocker arms might be okay but you're getting close to the point where you would want paired rocker arms rather than one big long shaft. You might need to sell the 440-1 heads and use the money to buy a more serious head like the 572. Better talk to your engine builder about that. Good luck.

He said a low deck


1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI
512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim
2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5

Re: Low deck stroker build opinions [Re: moparmanjames] #2737891
01/29/20 10:06 PM
01/29/20 10:06 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,232
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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Bend,OR USA
I've never built a motor like your wanting to do but I have built one B1 headed 4.495 bore World iron block that made 920 HP on race gas with a single Dominator carb that was not tuned to the most power in Boise ,ID at 2500 Ft on a new Super Flow engine dyno 3 to 4 yrs ago.
I used a Molnar 4.250 stroke crank and a set of his BB Chevy type 7.100 long Molnar H beam steel rods on that build along with a Comp Cams solid roller camshaft I bought from Koffels for that motor up
I have a 4.5 bore Koleno 440 type wedge iron block along with another set of B1 originals and a set of B1-MC heads, I'm going to use a old top fuel center counterweight 4.375 stroke crank with BB Chevy size rod journals with another set of the Molnar 7.100 long H beam steel rods on the B1-MC headed motor.
I've also built a bunch of 400 blocks for race and street and strip with 3.75 stroke with stock type 440 rods up to 4.300 stroke with 6.700 long H beam rods as well as one of my own pump gas motors with a 4.300 stroke crank with a set of Chinese imported CAT brand 7.800 long H beam rods that took a lot of abuse and live well with no problems, those pistons where really lightweight, 456 grams with no pin or rings with a 24. CC dish to lower the compression for pump gas when I first built it up
I have shifted that motor at 7800 RPM more than once before I found out the car would run the same number shifting it between 7000 rpm up to 7400 RPM shruggy
My bracket car weighs right at 2750 Lbs. with me in it, it runs 5.50 at 120. MPH in the 1/8 mile at 2500 ft. altitude and 8.86 at 150. MPH in the quarter at Woodburn, OR (180 Ft. altitude) in the summer on pump Oregon pump E 85 through a 1100 CFM Dominator converted to E 85 by AJ at Bob George racing. I'm still working on the tune up and chassis setting so it may end up running in the 5.40 in the 1/8 mile and maybe 8.70 in the 1/4 mile at 152+ MPH luck
That motor is a 518 C.I. (4.300 stroke with 4.375 bore)400 block with a set of aluminum main caps and a set of CNC ported 440-1 heads that had a set of Jesel paired shaft rocker with 1.55 ratio that came with top end package I bought from a member on here several years ago, 400-3 intake with a Wilson aluminum 1.5 inch tall reversion spacer on top of the manifold.
I do have two different tunnel rams for the B1 heads for a low deck, one sheet metal and one welded up cast plenum kit that Koffels use to sell, I've thought about putting NOS on one of them down the roads, not now though.
I have a bunch of NOS parts including several Dominator plates and one 440-3 intake with a set of spray bars plumbed into it, I will probably never try that intake though with out some one that knows a lot about plumbing NOS into a intake to see if it is worth using or not work
Good luck on your deal thumbs
Do you know what your car is going to weigh with the driver yet? If so how much?

Last edited by Cab_Burge; 01/29/20 10:13 PM.

Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Low deck stroker build opinions [Re: Cab_Burge] #2737936
01/30/20 12:03 AM
01/30/20 12:03 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,260
Las Vegas NV
moparmanjames Offline OP
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moparmanjames  Offline OP
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Posts: 1,260
Las Vegas NV
Thanks for the Info Cab, the car should weigh around 2700# with driver.

Re: Low deck stroker build opinions [Re: AndyF] #2737937
01/30/20 12:25 AM
01/30/20 12:25 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,260
Las Vegas NV
moparmanjames Offline OP
pro stock
moparmanjames  Offline OP
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,260
Las Vegas NV
Thanks Andy but as pointed out I'm going with a low deck Kieth Black block. I build my own engines since i'm on a tight budget but I think it's do-able with 1300hp.
How do I get there without a lot of stress? A 540 big block with nitrous is probably the least expensive way to go.
My 750hp 3200 # Duster runs 6.40 in the 1/8 with terrible air in Las Vegas with 4.10 gears so I figure with this Dart I'll make 850hp on the motor in a car that weighs 500# less plus a good little bit of nitrous and 4.56 gears should get me close to the goal,
I ran a sim program that had me running a 5.08 at 136 going through at around 7200 rpm, not too crazy.







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