383 Build Options - Roadrunner
#2731980
01/10/20 09:53 PM
01/10/20 09:53 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,930 Tri-Cities, Washington
VITC_GTX
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I know there are a ton of posts on the web about recipes for rebuilding engines and unfortunately I'm introducing another one, hopefully you can help.
I have a '69 Roadrunner with the stock 383/4-spd with 93K original miles and manual brakes/steering. The engine/tranny have never been opened before. It has stock exhaust manifolds, intake/carb, dizzy, etc. I've been driving it but the power is down and the plugs get oil fouled fairly quickly so I want to rebuild the engine. I want to use this car for a daily driver (drive it to work 3/4 days a week) so my first priority is a drive-able, reliable, turn-key engine. I'm looking for a stock-ish build (335-350 hp). I would like to hop in the car and drive it as if it was 1974 (just another car that runs fine).
Here are my must haves: -No timing issues (pre-detonation/pinging) -No over heating -No vapor lock, or heat-soak issues -Stock power (~335 hp)
I am NOT willing to: -Stroke it -Do head porting -Replace heads -Do a lot of machine work (squaring the block, align hone, porting, etc) -Use race gas (must be pump friendly)
I am willing to: -Do a valve job w/hardened seats -Use aluminum intake (dual plane) -Use new carb -Use electronic ignition -Use headers if necessary
I guess looking back at what I wrote it really boils down to what pistons/cam should I use, and what intake/carb and exhaust do you suggest with them?
Can you please provide thoughts?
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Re: 383 Build Options - Roadrunner
[Re: BSB67]
#2732056
01/11/20 08:31 AM
01/11/20 08:31 AM
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Joined: Jun 2008
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lewtot184
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a few years ago I put together a 383 for a friend. this wasn't a low budget build;,,,,,,it was a no budget build! anyhow, he bought a sealed power engine rebuild kit from summit that had the 2315 pistons, bearings, and some gaskets. I had some fairly stock '906 heads that were in good shape (mild pocket port, ferrea stock size valves, unleaded exhaust seat, crane springs) I gave him to use along with some fel-pro 8519 head gaskets. we used a summit 6400 cam with a used cloyes 3104 timing set. I rebuilt the stock point distributor (a little timing curve change) and stock carb (used stock intake) with stock jetting. this thing runs like a top, pump gas friendly. it exceeded my expectations without throwing a ton of money at it. oh, and it's a '69 383 4spd 3.23 rear super bee.
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Re: 383 Build Options - Roadrunner
[Re: lewtot184]
#2732147
01/11/20 01:38 PM
01/11/20 01:38 PM
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 257 Alberta
440_Offroader
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20 years ago I rebuilt the 383 in my Challenger. I spent $500 on the 906's for the valve job and new valve springs,retainers, and keepers. Didn't put in hardened exhaust seats, but would recommend you do for frequent use. I cleaned up the ports, but by no means did any real porting. I used. 039 fel pro head gaskets, but looking back should have used. 020 shim gaskets to keep some compression. The cylinders were pretty good, so I did a quick touch up with a Ridge reamer, and gave it a quick hone. I cleaned and decarboned the pistons, threw new rings on and threw them in with new bearings. Used an old cam my dad had laying around from the early 80's. It was a Comp cam High Energy. 454/.454, 216 @ . 050. I didn't have a clue about cams then, but it seemed to work pretty good with the engine. Added a high volume oil pump, some hooker headers, and an Edelbrock 750. Ran 2.5" exhaust to the mufflers and 2.25" to the exhaust tips. Later I put on an RPM intake. I built this on the cheap as I didn't have much cash back then. Knowing what I know now, I would have built it better, but it still runs awesome for what it is, and I have had no problems with it. Oh, and it easily runs on 87 gasoline, since the compression is probably only 8.5:1.
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Re: 383 Build Options - Roadrunner
[Re: AndyF]
#2732215
01/11/20 06:44 PM
01/11/20 06:44 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,514 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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Step one - determine the budget for the complete engine build..... air filter to oil pan.
That will usually dictate the direction things go.
A 93k original can have several things that aren’t causing issues now, but you wouldn’t want to put them back into a fresh build.
Rods might need work, crank might need grinding, rockers could be toast, etc.
Pretty easy to drop a G note on old iron heads........ although “fundamentally” I like stock sized heads with stock sized valves over aftermarket aluminum on mild 361/383 sized builds. Although sometimes it’s not always economically appealing to use them.
Sounds like Lew’s build would suit your needs.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: 383 Build Options - Roadrunner
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2732224
01/11/20 06:55 PM
01/11/20 06:55 PM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,916 usa
lewtot184
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the last set of '906's I had done was $800. this was bronze guides, ferrea stock size stainless valves, unleaded exhaust seats and had some bad intake seats, mill work, cleaning , etc. $200 of the $800 was there "bracket/pocket port" work. could've done it myself and saved the $200 and not necessary for something to drive. there's pro's and con's to the alum head thing and I wouldn't consider that direction for a stock or near stock build. once you start down that path then the money will start stacking up because it leads to other "wants/needs". i'd keep it simple and enjoy the ride.
at 93,000 miles your going to find a whole lotta places to put money. i'll bet there's enough taper in the cylinders to measure with a yard stick. heads will be wore out but as long as there's no cracks fixable. bet the babbit is gone off the rod bearings they're eating the crank up. can't imagine what that silent timing chain looks like. one real issue is stock main bearings can't be bought anymore. all I could find was the full groove truck mains. i'm not opposed to full groove but they are noticeably looser than stock. they didn't seem to have an adverse effect on the 383 I did, but i'd preferred stock half grooves and a little tighter clearance. the only thing hard about picking a camshaft is the many choices. anything with .480" lift or greater on iron needs to be looked at for retainer to seal clearance; especially with aftermarket retainers.
Last edited by lewtot184; 01/11/20 07:06 PM.
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Re: 383 Build Options - Roadrunner
[Re: lewtot184]
#2732248
01/11/20 08:26 PM
01/11/20 08:26 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,514 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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For sure, where you’re located, and what the cost of living in your area is will have an impact of what you’ll pay for local machine shop services.
In my area...... to disassemble, oven clean, magaflux, install bronze guides, hardened ex seats, flat mill, and then supply new stainless valves, springs, seals, shims(along with the 16 bronze guides and 8 exhaust seats)...... plus the final cleaning and assembly of the heads, setting the spring heights, etc, will cost quite a bit more than $600.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: 383 Build Options - Roadrunner
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2732278
01/11/20 09:49 PM
01/11/20 09:49 PM
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 177 Norfolk County , Ontario
WORKER_BEE
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For the ``No vapor lock, or heat-soak issues`` I would use a intake valley pan gasket with the blocked heat crossover. LinkyThe bimetallic spring choke mechanism isn`t going to work anymore though. A carb with an electric choke would be needed for easier cold starts. I use the newest Edelbrock AVS2 650 on my Crown Coupe......I love it! A half inch wood or plastic carb spacer wouldn`t hurt either.
1969 Super Bee Six Pack 1969 Charger R/T SE 1968 Crown Coupe
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Re: 383 Build Options - Roadrunner
[Re: lewtot184]
#2732292
01/11/20 10:59 PM
01/11/20 10:59 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 259 Khemi, Stygia
Mebsuta
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a few years ago I put together a 383 for a friend. this wasn't a low budget build;,,,,,,it was a no budget build! anyhow, he bought a sealed power engine rebuild kit from summit that had the 2315 pistons, bearings, and some gaskets. I had some fairly stock '906 heads that were in good shape (mild pocket port, ferrea stock size valves, unleaded exhaust seat, crane springs) I gave him to use along with some fel-pro 8519 head gaskets. we used a summit 6400 cam with a used cloyes 3104 timing set. I rebuilt the stock point distributor (a little timing curve change) and stock carb (used stock intake) with stock jetting. this thing runs like a top, pump gas friendly. it exceeded my expectations without throwing a ton of money at it. oh, and it's a '69 383 4spd 3.23 rear super bee. That's what I would do, except maybe use 452 heads and not worry about the hardened seats.
68 Roadrunner. 383 4-spd. Beat up.
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Re: 383 Build Options - Roadrunner
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2732316
01/12/20 12:09 AM
01/12/20 12:09 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,074 Oregon
AndyF
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I Win
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For sure, where you’re located, and what the cost of living in your area is will have an impact of what you’ll pay for local machine shop services.
In my area...... to disassemble, oven clean, magaflux, install bronze guides, hardened ex seats, flat mill, and then supply new stainless valves, springs, seals, shims(along with the 16 bronze guides and 8 exhaust seats)...... plus the final cleaning and assembly of the heads, setting the spring heights, etc, will cost quite a bit more than $600. Last time I had a set of 906 heads fully rebuilt with hard seats and all new parts it cost me over $1500. That was 20 years ago and I haven't used a set of cast iron heads since. The 50 lb weight savings off the nose of the car is also a plus.
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Re: 383 Build Options - Roadrunner
[Re: VITC_GTX]
#2732330
01/12/20 12:58 AM
01/12/20 12:58 AM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 259 Khemi, Stygia
Mebsuta
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Kind of remarkable how these are worn out at 93k, and at 100k now on something like a Honda you change the spark plugs.
68 Roadrunner. 383 4-spd. Beat up.
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Re: 383 Build Options - Roadrunner
[Re: Mebsuta]
#2732389
01/12/20 09:49 AM
01/12/20 09:49 AM
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lewtot184
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Kind of remarkable how these are worn out at 93k, and at 100k now on something like a Honda you change the spark plugs. back in the day my 383 was totally shot at 50,000 miles but I beat on it a lot. to me 93k is a miracle for a muscle car engine.
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Re: 383 Build Options - Roadrunner
[Re: lewtot184]
#2732393
01/12/20 10:39 AM
01/12/20 10:39 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,318 Prospect, PA
BSB67
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Lew, what gear was in your Roadrunner? 3.91?
My 440 Charger with a 3.23 gear was consuming a quart of oil every 500 miles. It had about 100,000 miles on it, and the previous (original) owner was a retired female school teacher. My 68 383 Charger I bought in 1976 had 60,000 on it at the time. It was burning some oil then too. It had a 3.23. Realistically, 383 and 318 cars with 2.76 gears were probably 125,000 mile cars. I'm not saying they wouldn't go longer, but they were pretty wore out.
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Re: 383 Build Options - Roadrunner
[Re: BSB67]
#2732398
01/12/20 10:58 AM
01/12/20 10:58 AM
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Joined: Jun 2008
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lewtot184
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Lew, what gear was in your Roadrunner? 3.91?
My 440 Charger with a 3.23 gear was consuming a quart of oil every 500 miles. It had about 100,000 miles on it, and the previous (original) owner was a retired female school teacher. My 68 383 Charger I bought in 1976 had 60,000 on it at the time. It was burning some oil then too. It had a 3.23. Realistically, 383 and 318 cars with 2.76 gears were probably 125,000 mile cars. I'm not saying they wouldn't go longer, but they were pretty wore out. my car came with a 3.55. later on I ran a 4.10 gear. I beat the holy snot out of it. if I remember correctly the engine had .008" taper in the cylinders around 50,000 miles and a couple of cracked pistons. the babbit was gone off the rod bearings so it was copper overlay on the crank. one thing I can say about 383's, they are tough. if I remember correctly the engine had cast iron rings and a rear rope seal.
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Re: 383 Build Options - Roadrunner
[Re: lewtot184]
#2732402
01/12/20 11:11 AM
01/12/20 11:11 AM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,922 Calgary, Alberta Canada
a12rag
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Lots of engine rebuild shops in Spokane . . . give them a call and see what they would charge for a complete rebuild (long block|) - might be surprised, maybe $1800 at the most ???.. . . and they will look after the heads, seats, pistons, crank, cam, etc . . . . S&J Engines did my 360 . . . they will work with you . . . I had a bit higher compression piston, and 340 type cam, in my 360 . . . was $1,450.00 about 10yrs ago . . . and they give you a warranty . . .
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Re: 383 Build Options - Roadrunner
[Re: Mebsuta]
#2732407
01/12/20 11:36 AM
01/12/20 11:36 AM
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Joined: Mar 2011
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A727Tflite
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Kind of remarkable how these are worn out at 93k, and at 100k now on something like a Honda you change the spark plugs. Comparing a 60’s engine design (from any manufacturer) to a later design is like comparing a B-17 to an F-16. Materials, processes, designs have all improved. Bore taper is a function of ring radial load and surface area, Design and material changes for valve seals, rear main, head gasket, valve cover are light years apart. Manufacturing process play a part in engine durability as well. I wonder how long these older engines actually lasted when properly maintained. Hundreds of stores I have heard about the slant six in taxi service in NY running pretty much non-stop for hundreds of thousands of miles. And local law enforcement here saying the B engines were bullet proof (no pun intended).
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Re: 383 Build Options - Roadrunner
[Re: VITC_GTX]
#2732414
01/12/20 12:03 PM
01/12/20 12:03 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 16,161 Mesa, Arizona
dart4forte
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I know there are a ton of posts on the web about recipes for rebuilding engines and unfortunately I'm introducing another one, hopefully you can help.
I have a '69 Roadrunner with the stock 383/4-spd with 93K original miles and manual brakes/steering. The engine/tranny have never been opened before. It has stock exhaust manifolds, intake/carb, dizzy, etc. I've been driving it but the power is down and the plugs get oil fouled fairly quickly so I want to rebuild the engine. I want to use this car for a daily driver (drive it to work 3/4 days a week) so my first priority is a drive-able, reliable, turn-key engine. I'm looking for a stock-ish build (335-350 hp). I would like to hop in the car and drive it as if it was 1974 (just another car that runs fine).
Here are my must haves: -No timing issues (pre-detonation/pinging) -No over heating -No vapor lock, or heat-soak issues -Stock power (~335 hp)
I am NOT willing to: -Stroke it -Do head porting -Replace heads -Do a lot of machine work (squaring the block, align hone, porting, etc) -Use race gas (must be pump friendly)
I am willing to: -Do a valve job w/hardened seats -Use aluminum intake (dual plane) -Use new carb -Use electronic ignition -Use headers if necessary
I guess looking back at what I wrote it really boils down to what pistons/cam should I use, and what intake/carb and exhaust do you suggest with them?
Can you please provide thoughts?
Hey shoot me a pm. Guy in Yakima May be able to give you some sound advice. I’ll give you his number. He builds a lot Of good reliable motors.
“So if it’s on the internet it must be true”
Abe Lincoln
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Re: 383 Build Options - Roadrunner
[Re: dart4forte]
#2732455
01/12/20 02:08 PM
01/12/20 02:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,894 A collage of whims
topside
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I'll preface this with saying I've had a couple 383s last well into 140K without problems, but they were well-maintained. One I pounded on a fair bit and the other wasn't. That said, of the dozen or so 383s I've owned, each one's been a bit different, whether it had 20K or 120K on it, some stronger than others. One had a low-PSI hole and was surprisingly among the stronger of them; after a blueprint rebuild, even more so. Here's the deal: the engine will tell you what you need to do, not the other way around. I'm big on doing things once and enjoying them a long time. Setting up the short-block - checking/correcting machining, tolerances - and the heads - valve job, likely valves, definitely springs/retainers/keepers - critical. I always end up going through Eddys & Stealths with a better valve job & springs, so if the OEM heads are OK, I'd run them. I rarely have hardened seats in old street cars, unless the old seats are beat. Depends on usage. If it's a #s car, you'd be wise to keep it as stock-appearing as possible & avoid the hot-rod temptation. That said, a good ignition (corrected MP electronic, GM or Pertronix drop-in, whatever) and an Eddy AVS2 650 are 2 worthwhile updates. I generally run 'em pretty stock, 10-12* initial, 36* total, vac advance, on 91-93 just fine.
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