Re: Hughes engines camshafts
[Re: mopar dave]
#2729610
01/03/20 10:54 AM
01/03/20 10:54 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,237 North Central, Indiana
Roughbird72
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,237
North Central, Indiana
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From their 2003 catalog HEH = hydraulic flat tappet HER = Hydraulic roller LA and Magnum engines HTL = Max Vel Solid flat tappet
I'm running one of their HEV series, which was replaced by the HTL series
Hope this helps
72 Plymouth Roadrunner 11.08@123.25
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Re: Hughes engines camshafts
[Re: mopar dave]
#2729626
01/03/20 11:58 AM
01/03/20 11:58 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,237 North Central, Indiana
Roughbird72
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,237
North Central, Indiana
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I've been running mine 19 years and no issues to date. HEV5663 The cam I have was ground by Engle for Hughes, I believe Howards makes the cams for Hughes now My current build will use a Howards that's the same specs as the Hughes STL6064
Last edited by Roughbird72; 01/03/20 12:02 PM.
72 Plymouth Roadrunner 11.08@123.25
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Re: Hughes engines camshafts
[Re: mopar dave]
#2729647
01/03/20 01:27 PM
01/03/20 01:27 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,635 Oakland, MI
dizuster
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,635
Oakland, MI
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I ran an HEV in a small block years ago.
1st cam wiped out in 200 miles. Although I insisted we used the correct pressure springs, they told me the reason it wiped a lobe was because I hadn't purchased the springs from them.
After I dug all of the metal out of the pistons, I built another motor and had a 2nd cam wipe out in about 1500 miles. Although I had used their cam, lifter, and spring combo... they told me my block had poor lifter bore geometry, and would not cover any costs of the repair.
Then I bought new pistons, new bearings, rings, etc...bored the motor .010" over, BUSHED the lifter bores as instructed, and broke the motor in on the dyno with the outer springs only as instructed. It wiped out ANOTHER cam of the same HEV profile.
I'll let you decide if you want to buy or use anything from them...but I put a roller in it, and never looked back.
You don't need a killer attack roller lifter profile. Every production car on the planet has a roller cam in it...so the durability is fine if you use the right parts.
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Re: Hughes engines camshafts
[Re: dizuster]
#2729656
01/03/20 02:14 PM
01/03/20 02:14 PM
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Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 884 Missouri
jwb123
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 884
Missouri
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I ran an HEV in a small block years ago.
1st cam wiped out in 200 miles. Although I insisted we used the correct pressure springs, they told me the reason it wiped a lobe was because I hadn't purchased the springs from them.
After I dug all of the metal out of the pistons, I built another motor and had a 2nd cam wipe out in about 1500 miles. Although I had used their cam, lifter, and spring combo... they told me my block had poor lifter bore geometry, and would not cover any costs of the repair.
Then I bought new pistons, new bearings, rings, etc...bored the motor .010" over, BUSHED the lifter bores as instructed, and broke the motor in on the dyno with the outer springs only as instructed. It wiped out ANOTHER cam of the same HEV profile.
I'll let you decide if you want to buy or use anything from them...but I put a roller in it, and never looked back.
You don't need a killer attack roller lifter profile. Every production car on the planet has a roller cam in it...so the durability is fine if you use the right parts. Just to be curious how much spring pressure did they recommend? I lost one of their camshafts several years ago, using their lifters and springs. When I saw the specs, I called and told them there is no way this cam will live at those pressures. They talked me into it, and to make a long story short it did not live, I sent them cam and lifters back for inspection, and they said that my break-in pattern looked fine on the lobes that did not go flat. basically shrugged their shoulders and said Oh well. Did not even offer to replace the camshaft. I went with a roller and never looked back. I personally never use a flat tappet cam that calls for more than 130 lbs on the seat, I have pushed that with EDM lifters, but if it's over 130 lbs on the seat, and much over .650 lift, I just buy a roller.
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Re: Hughes engines camshafts
[Re: jwb123]
#2729666
01/03/20 02:34 PM
01/03/20 02:34 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,514 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,514
So. Burlington, Vt.
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Fear of spring loads?
Go back and read through the whole camshaft/valvetrain sections of the MP engine books. Read what is said about the spring loads....... then look at the recommended spring part numbers...... and the specs for those springs. Especially the springs for the bigger flat tappet cams.
Then consider how everyone talks about how old school they are, and that newer, faster rate cams would make more power.
Well, generally........ the faster rate profiles need more load to maintain control of the valvetrain.
Look again at the recommended springs and loads for those old school lobes...... and let it sink in that the newer designs should use more load than that to achieve similar RPM’s before the onset of instability or float.
It doesn’t point towards loads in the 130/330 range being able to get it done.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Hughes engines camshafts
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2729684
01/03/20 03:06 PM
01/03/20 03:06 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,811 North Dakota
Azzkikrcuda
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,811
North Dakota
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My buddy tried one of their HTL series cams along with there lifters and springs in his big block a few years back. Cam died shortly after break-in. I checked the spring pressures after, Was way higher then necessary. There cams are probably Ok, But I would watch their recommended spring pressures.
The only Carbs I care about are under the hood!
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Re: Hughes engines camshafts
[Re: lewtot184]
#2729700
01/03/20 04:04 PM
01/03/20 04:04 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,760 Moved to N.E. Tennessee
GomangoCuda
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,760
Moved to N.E. Tennessee
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Call Dave and talk to him. After he explains to you how stupid you are you will probably never buy anything from him. Big hint:. Don't mention Moparts to him unless you really want the conversation to go off the rails.
If you decide that you just have to have one of his cams, bypass him and get it from the source.
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.
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Re: Hughes engines camshafts
[Re: mopar dave]
#2729752
01/03/20 06:27 PM
01/03/20 06:27 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,686 W. Kentucky
justinp61
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,686
W. Kentucky
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I ran two of Daves cams in small blocks, a hydraulic and a flat solid, both made good power. Both engines were ran five years, when the engines were tore down both cams were worn on the nose of the lobe and had porosity on several lobes. I used good oil with eos added, and Hughes recommended springs. For what it's worth Ryan Johnson told me later that he didn't like their springs, said they didn't hold up well. I now run a solid roller.
Last edited by justinp61; 01/03/20 06:28 PM.
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Re: Hughes engines camshafts
[Re: GomangoCuda]
#2729757
01/03/20 06:58 PM
01/03/20 06:58 PM
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,704 Wichita
GY3
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,704
Wichita
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Call Dave and talk to him. After he explains to you how stupid you are you will probably never buy anything from him. Big hint:. Don't mention Moparts to him unless you really want the conversation to go off the rails.
If you decide that you just have to have one of his cams, bypass him and get it from the source. I recall him posting a little diatribe against Moparts years ago when some of the members built an engine for some contest. Calling them amateurs and looking down his nose. Decided right then and there he was a vendor I chose not to support.
'63 Dodge 330 11.19 @ 121 mph Pump gas, n/a, through the mufflers on street tires with 3.54's. 3,600 lbs. 10.01 @ 133mph with a 250 shot of nitrous an a splash of race gas. 1.36 60 ft. 3,700 lbs.
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Re: Hughes engines camshafts
[Re: GY3]
#2729772
01/03/20 07:46 PM
01/03/20 07:46 PM
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Joined: May 2017
Posts: 1,269 Denver, CO
BigBlockGTS
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 1,269
Denver, CO
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Call Dave and talk to him. After he explains to you how stupid you are you will probably never buy anything from him. Big hint:. Don't mention Moparts to him unless you really want the conversation to go off the rails.
If you decide that you just have to have one of his cams, bypass him and get it from the source. I recall him posting a little diatribe against Moparts years ago when some of the members built an engine for some contest. Calling them amateurs and looking down his nose. Decided right then and there he was a vendor I chose not to support. I wasn't going to bring it up- It was in the early 2000's and it was for Engine Masters. His response to an innocent group of guys running down the checklist of "what could have caused this" was way over the top. It is easily in the top three Moparts meltdown threads of all time (along with the 70 purple Daytona and anything posted by Eddie/Elvis with the Duster). His response convinced me to never use their products, and I am typically not like that. They have some of the highest rates of lift for duration out there in the flat tappet world but by the time you can control the valvetrain, you are on the absolute ragged edge of what can be accomplished with a flat tappet cam. If anything is off, even by a hair, you are in trouble. I just went to Engle who ground for them at the time and got something with slightly slower ramps. Hats off to fast68plymouth for being so professional in his response. He knows the deal- you sir, are a gentleman.
Last edited by BigBlockGTS; 01/03/20 07:47 PM.
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Re: Hughes engines camshafts
[Re: justinp61]
#2729799
01/03/20 08:45 PM
01/03/20 08:45 PM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,916 usa
lewtot184
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,916
usa
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I ran two of Daves cams in small blocks, a hydraulic and a flat solid, both made good power. Both engines were ran five years, when the engines were tore down both cams were worn on the nose of the lobe and had porosity on several lobes. I used good oil with eos added, and Hughes recommended springs. For what it's worth Ryan Johnson told me later that he didn't like their springs, said they didn't hold up well. I now run a solid roller. the engles don't have as much nose radius as something like comp cams. I think the "peakier" noses aren't as comfortable with big pressures and can be more susceptible to wear. I've used several engles without any issue but don't use big springs. the engles aren't as fast off the seat as something like a comp extreme which I think helps with break in. I've got about 20,000 miles on a engle solid. may go away tomorrow; may be good for a few more years but I sure got my moneys worth out of it. in fact I had an extra one made for a spare because I like the one I have.
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Re: Hughes engines camshafts
[Re: lewtot184]
#2729823
01/03/20 09:22 PM
01/03/20 09:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,922 A collage of whims
topside
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,922
A collage of whims
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FWIW, I've run a couple Engle FT cams, and my engine-builder/crew-chief/guru has used them a lot. We've had excellent results, easy, reasonable, & quick guys to deal with. I did get a Hughes cam once, and rather than supplying the one I wanted, the dude said they were out of stock on that one and insisted a wilder one was the better choice for street/strip use. It did make power, but wasn't very streetable. And yes, I'd described the car & combo in detail.
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