Re: Shipping damage, what say you?
[Re: ]
#2727923
12/29/19 08:59 AM
12/29/19 08:59 AM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,662 in a cattle trailer down by th...
Guitar Jones
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
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Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,662
in a cattle trailer down by th...
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This is why I always take things to a UPS store, packed but still open and then pay them to package it and insure it. This way when they claim improper packaging I can say, well you packaged it and were paid to do so. Happened to me before, took some arguing but I got the money for it and it was shipped overseas.
"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion. '74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost conversion. 2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
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Re: Shipping damage, what say you?
[Re: DrCharles]
#2727980
12/29/19 12:36 PM
12/29/19 12:36 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,662 in a cattle trailer down by th...
Guitar Jones
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
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Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,662
in a cattle trailer down by th...
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Yeah I'm pretty sure the store paid me. Whether he got his money back I don't know but it's not my concern. Actually this particular transaction wasn't for damage but rather theft. The buyer in England claimed when he opened the box there was just bricks. The product was in there when it left my hands at the UPS store as witnessed by the clerk/owner so...
"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion. '74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost conversion. 2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
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Re: Shipping damage, what say you?
[Re: Mr T2U]
#2728010
12/29/19 02:31 PM
12/29/19 02:31 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,474 Florida STAYcation
dOc !
The village idiot's idiot
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The village idiot's idiot
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,474
Florida STAYcation
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to reply to the people who say UPS always wins i will say not always. i will keep my story as short as possible to not hijack this thread.
about 8 years ago i bought a almost new full carbon fiber bicycle, including the wheels, at 80% off what it should have been worth. it was packed by a bike shop then it was put in a wooden crate. when it was shipped UPS opened the box inspected and approved of the pack job, charged me a fee for that and shipped it insured for $3K. at the end of the line UPS drove over the bike with a truck. there were tire tracks over the crate when it was delivered. the truck must have been fully loaded because the crank, part between the pedals was bent significantly. they initially claimed the usual bike was packed wrong. i informed them to be insured for anything over $500 THEY had to pack the item, this was the rule at the time to get insurance at the $$$ amount it was insured for. if they wanted to fight payment i would have no problem going to court. note...... i have a old HS classmate that works at a law firm that represents politicians. i didn't tell UPS this info. UPS said good luck so my friend filed a lawsuit asking for damages, and punitive damages to cover attorney fees. when i finally got my day in court. at the initial hearing UPS argued it wasn't packed properly. my attorney countered to insure item for the high $$$ it was insured at THEY had to pack the item. we produced a receipt with the additional fee i paid to do so and also showed the bent crank to the judge. after a few rounds of debates the judge held the bent crank up and asked the UPS attorneys what amount of packing would be required to prevent this damage. he also mentioned in his opinion you could drop the crank off a 20 story building and it wouldn't bend a crank like it was. he then gave a temporary recess for the attorneys to talk. after 20 min of discussion between attorneys, my attorney informed i would have my $$$ in a week. Holly chit .. through all this - what did you recover ?
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Re: Shipping damage, what say you?
[Re: dOc !]
#2728029
12/29/19 03:45 PM
12/29/19 03:45 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,923 new berlin wisconsin
Mr T2U
master
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master
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,923
new berlin wisconsin
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i got a check from UPS for $3k. this is what the bike was insured for and what the bicycle was really worth. i do believe, my friend never told me the exact amount, the law firm got $2K for legal fees.
perception is 90% of reality
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Re: Shipping damage, what say you?
[Re: Mr T2U]
#2728038
12/29/19 04:12 PM
12/29/19 04:12 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,474 Florida STAYcation
dOc !
The village idiot's idiot
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The village idiot's idiot
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,474
Florida STAYcation
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i got a check from UPS for $3k. this is what the bike was insured for and what the bicycle was really worth. i do believe, my friend never told me the exact amount, the law firm got $2K for legal fees. So that was a settlement and not a judgement? No punitive damages ?
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Re: Shipping damage, what say you?
[Re: dOc !]
#2728047
12/29/19 04:30 PM
12/29/19 04:30 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,405 Highland, MI.
Sunroofcuda
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,405
Highland, MI.
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i got a check from UPS for $3k. this is what the bike was insured for and what the bicycle was really worth. i do believe, my friend never told me the exact amount, the law firm got $2K for legal fees. So that was a settlement and not a judgement? No punitive damages ? I believe recovering the legal fees would be considered the "punitive" damages. Am I right?
No Man With A Good Car Needs To Be Justified
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Re: Shipping damage, what say you?
[Re: jcc]
#2728089
12/29/19 06:55 PM
12/29/19 06:55 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,498 Omaha Ne
TJP
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,498
Omaha Ne
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1. I just heard today about what the buyer is thinking as to resolution, meaning i'm assuming UPS is not reachable until Monday. 2. I understand the original box may not be the best container, but it looked fine, and was the original shipping box. 3. The items were two separately boxed and joined 12" speakers, package weight 54lbs 4. According to pics, there was obvious exterior box damage. 5. both speaker cones appeared to be almost completely destroyed, they are a plastic/carbon fiber material, but how exactly is not clear 6. I do have pics of perfect functional speakers pre shipping, but not sure that proves the way they went in the box. 7. The time delay seems to me to be buyers biggest unexplained hurdle. 8. I get UPS is not my friend in this matter.
What can I expect to be Paypals typical response before I start opening cans of worms here?
How bad was this box damage ??? Enough to cause the damage to the speaker cones??? and If so why would the buyer not open the boxes immediately for inspection?? I'm smelling horsesh-t or a scam here. As previously mentioned, anything could have happened during that time At this point I'd roll the dice and tell him to pound sand
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Re: Shipping damage, what say you?
[Re: TJP]
#2728144
12/29/19 09:08 PM
12/29/19 09:08 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,722 Bitopia
jcc
OP
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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OP
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,722
Bitopia
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The damage in the pic only showed a couple inch hole, and you can almost make out the backside of the speaker. It does not correspond to the the complete destruction in his other pics of both speakers cones. I'll see if I can attach a pic Mon. Thanks guys, all the viewpoints have been helpful.
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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Re: Shipping damage, what say you?
[Re: TJP]
#2728151
12/29/19 09:22 PM
12/29/19 09:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,634 Freeport IL USA
poorboy
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,634
Freeport IL USA
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Not to detail this thread but: There was a UPS truck that broke down in front of my house a few weeks ago while making a delivery (across the street from me). After sitting there for about 30 minutes, a Penski Rental truck showed up, and backed up to about 3' behind the now dead UPS truck. Both truck drivers proceeded to "move" the packages on the UPS truck to the rental truck. At more then a few points, my wife and I watched packages flying from the inside of one truck to the inside of the other truck (a distance of easily more then 6'), but both drivers were in the same truck. A few of the packages were picked up off the street and were placed into the truck they missed in the fly though process. I must admit, there were several packages that were handled pretty delicately, but probably less then 20% of what was on the original truck. The entire package swap took about a 1/2 hour, it was a smaller UPS truck, but it must have been pretty full. Upon completion of the package swap, the UPS driver got into the rental truck and drove away, presumably to make the day's deliveries. The guy that was driving the rental truck got into the UPS truck, and drove it away, with a trail of liquid following it up around the turn.
My wife commented on how the drivers just through the packages from the one truck to the other with little regard as to what may have been in the packages.
My shop used to be next door to our local UPS hub. I often repaired their aluminum 2 wheel dollies. Part of the repair was to make sure they were delivered to the hub, and I was to stop in the office with a receipt and get paid. Very prompt payment, always. On several occasions I witnessed the truck loading process. All I will say is when you ship packages, pack them like you would expect them to get thrown into the truck, especially if they are light weight, or small. At the time, our local hub had 43 trucks. The packages arrived on semis (often with pup trailers) from 3 different locations, and the packaged were unloaded from the semis, sorted, and loaded onto all 43 trucks in about 6 hours time with about 6 employees. Christmas time was worse (but at least there were extra people). How much care would you expect to see? Gene
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Re: Shipping damage, what say you?
[Re: poorboy]
#2728159
12/29/19 09:50 PM
12/29/19 09:50 PM
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,220 West Plains, MO
DrCharles
master
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master
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,220
West Plains, MO
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About 20 years ago I had the opportunity to observe the trucks being unloaded onto a belt and the packages picked off the belt... yes, they do throw them. No time or space to set them down gently. I'm sure the process is not slower than it was, too.
I also got to put on a set of "browns" and spend the morning with a driver in his package car (what UPS calls the delivery step vans). That driver was really earning his pay that day, and glad to have a helper. It's not an easy job physically, especially with the red tag (70+ lb) packages.
However, I would not expect to see a tire track printed on a box, or a forklift tine punched through it!
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Re: Shipping damage, what say you?
[Re: Sunroofcuda]
#2728210
12/30/19 08:20 AM
12/30/19 08:20 AM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,923 new berlin wisconsin
Mr T2U
master
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master
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,923
new berlin wisconsin
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i got a check from UPS for $3k. this is what the bike was insured for and what the bicycle was really worth. i do believe, my friend never told me the exact amount, the law firm got $2K for legal fees. So that was a settlement and not a judgement? No punitive damages ? I believe recovering the legal fees would be considered the "punitive" damages. Am I right? in my opinion you are correct. my case was SETTLED OUT OF COURT so terminology differences are irrelevant. the only thing i know 100% is i got a check for $3K. my lawyer friend told me the legal bill was taken care of, it was paid by UPS. i didn't have to worry about paying that. my friend told me there was about 15 billable hours mostly filing motions and phone calls between lawyers , he told me that while i bought him a expensive lunch after i got the check. i never got any exact details on what was required to handle the case and what exactly the legal firm got paid..
perception is 90% of reality
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Re: Shipping damage, what say you?
[Re: poorboy]
#2728212
12/30/19 08:29 AM
12/30/19 08:29 AM
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RWG75
Unregistered
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RWG75
Unregistered
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I've never been around an airport freight ramp but I'm thinking it's a way different thing from a truck loading dock. I'm thinking packages thrown and kicked in to those airplane shaped containers rather than thrown and kicked in to the plane like luggage. Some kinda effort made to balance the load because a nose heavy cargo plane is a way different thing than a nose heavy van trailer. There's also the FAA angle and the real cost of mishaps. Bump your cargo handling vehicle in to a trailer, not that big of a deal even if you put the forks through the wall. Bump in to an aircraft and it's a huge deal even if you don't scuff the paint. I had a FedEx call center as a customer for several years and heard some of the stories.
Having driven a forklift for a few years I'll just say that punching a fork in to a box happens more than you want to know. As for tire tracks, it's less common. Most generic freight trailers have barn doors and the driver needs to open them before backing in to the dock. If the pallets on the tail are light enough and not properly secured they can and do end up on the ground.
Remember the old Samsonite commercials with the suitcase in the gorilla cage? I try to keep that in mind when packing boxes.
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Re: Shipping damage, what say you?
[Re: ]
#2728334
12/30/19 03:41 PM
12/30/19 03:41 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,292 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,292
Bend,OR USA
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I've had two incidents of parts damage in shipping, first one was a pair of fibreglas doors I bought from Herb McCandless years ago, Roadway freight delivered them to my shop in SO CA. The package had a forklift tonque, probe, lift, size and shape hole on one side and it went through one of the doors I called Herb to let him know and Roadway ended up paying me for the total package price of both doors and they took the damaged door and I got to keep the other one The second claim was on a used crankshaft B motor 4.25 stroke crankshaft that I had bought from Ohio Crankshaft company a long time ago, I bought six now ones and the one used one, three new RB and 3 new B and the one used B one for me. I ended up using three of the new ones on customers builds before unpacking the used one I bought for myself. I didn't notice it was damaged on the rear flywheel mounting flange, it was bent a bunch , before taking it to the machine shop along with the rods, pistons and so on for balancing. The shop called me when they noticed it and I got it back and gave them one of then ew ones for my build. I called the freight company about filing a claim, I think it was UPS ground, and they told me that it was insured for $100.00 I called Ohio Crankshaft and told them about it being bent and ask why they had only insured them for $100.00 each, I sent it back to them and they replaced it with a new one and paid for shipping it to me for no out of pocket expenses to me I had ask them to send me another new one and insured it for $1300.00 but they no, ship it back and we will take care of it I had paid right around $400.00 each for the new ones and $200.00 for the used one I haven't been so lucky on new defective engine parts that had failed in the motor, which has been more than one
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 12/30/19 03:43 PM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Shipping damage, what say you?
[Re: ]
#2728381
12/30/19 07:41 PM
12/30/19 07:41 PM
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,220 West Plains, MO
DrCharles
master
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master
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,220
West Plains, MO
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Remember the old Samsonite commercials with the suitcase in the gorilla cage? I try to keep that in mind when packing boxes. I have had airline baggage handlers crack not one, but two Samsonite suitcases over the years. Nary a gorilla in sight
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Re: Shipping damage, what say you?
[Re: DrCharles]
#2728425
12/30/19 10:05 PM
12/30/19 10:05 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,722 Bitopia
jcc
OP
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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OP
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,722
Bitopia
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UPS has stated today a shipper has 90 Days to report a claim for damage, that seems strange to me. But from what I read here as to the UPS's track record of actually paying for a claim, they could make it 2 years, since they never pay anyway.
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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Re: Shipping damage, what say you?
[Re: DrCharles]
#2728518
12/31/19 12:32 PM
12/31/19 12:32 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,678 San Jose,CA
migsBIG
YouTube is my go-to news source
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YouTube is my go-to news source
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,678
San Jose,CA
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About 20 years ago I had the opportunity to observe the trucks being unloaded onto a belt and the packages picked off the belt... yes, they do throw them. No time or space to set them down gently. I'm sure the process is not slower than it was, too.
I also got to put on a set of "browns" and spend the morning with a driver in his package car (what UPS calls the delivery step vans). That driver was really earning his pay that day, and glad to have a helper. It's not an easy job physically, especially with the red tag (70+ lb) packages.
However, I would not expect to see a tire track printed on a box, or a forklift tine punched through it! About maybe 15-20 years ago I shipped a 1970 C-body dash pad to a guy through UPS bubble wrapped 3 layers, double hard foam cover and wrapped twice in cardboard and then boxed. Got a call from the guy that the box showed up bent into a 'V' shape with a forklift tire down the center. UPS said they would not over the claim as it was not properly packaged to prevent damage is shipment. How the heck do you package a product to survive a 4 ton forklift running over it!? After about 18 packages being lost, damaged, ruined or delivered late (one was 6 weeks late), I gave up on the and have been Using FedEx for the last 15 years and have had only one problem out of a couple hundred packages shipped. I have turn order down if the buyer insisted on using UPS. Plus FedEx is cheaper too.
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