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Re: bolt in sprag failure [Re: turbobitt] #272209 04/01/09 08:03 PM 04/01/09 08:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 681 Illinois 4 493_Scamp super gas
493_Scamp super gas 4 Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 681 Illinois	Correct me if I,m wrong but with LBA the sprag doesnt hold any force because the band holds instead,then in 2nd gear the sprag overruns(releases and freewheels).So with LBA the sprag only functions during the 1,2 shift overlap when the LB has to release to let 2nd work.So I'm thinking the LB isnt actually working to have that much failure of the sprag.

Re: bolt in sprag failure [Re: 493_Scamp] #272210 04/01/09 08:41 PM 04/01/09 08:41 PM
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 656 Kokomo, IN 540dust mopar
540dust mopar Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 656 Kokomo, IN	That doesn't look like the last Ultimate Sprag I installed, I think maybe someone was blowin' you smoke. The A&A Ultimate is a 16 element 6 bolt, not a 12 element like that one. It's a much better quality piece and would be much less susceptable to the roll over that you encounted. LBA, or the bolt in sprags still do not guarantee no failure but definitely help. That sprag looks like the old "striped out case" fix it, which used to be all that was availabe. Now the Coan Super sprag and the A&A 16 elements are superior to those old 12 elements.

Re: bolt in sprag failure [Re: 540dust] #272211 04/01/09 08:44 PM 04/01/09 08:44 PM
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 656 Kokomo, IN 540dust mopar
540dust mopar Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 656 Kokomo, IN	This is the A&A Ultimate Sprag.... 5135811-22961L.jpg (110 downloads)

Re: bolt in sprag failure [Re: 540dust] #272212 04/01/09 08:47 PM 04/01/09 08:47 PM
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 656 Kokomo, IN 540dust mopar
540dust mopar Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 656 Kokomo, IN	Ok, excuse me, I read more closely, and you did not have the 16 element sprag.... you had the ultimate LBA brake...pardon me.

Re: bolt in sprag failure [Re: 540dust] #272213 04/01/09 09:07 PM 04/01/09 09:07 PM
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 656 Kokomo, IN 540dust mopar
540dust mopar Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 656 Kokomo, IN	Quote: This makes me think other things got broke, and your disassembly confirms it. If only the sprage wasn't holding, shifting to 2nd should have been OK. Also the LBA What does the front planetary splines to the output shaft look like ?

Re: bolt in sprag failure [Re: 493_Scamp] #272214 04/02/09 03:22 PM 04/02/09 03:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,796 Rio Linda, CA John_Kunkel Too Many Posts
John_Kunkel Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,796 Rio Linda, CA	Quote: Correct me if I,m wrong but with LBA the sprag doesnt hold any force because the band holds instead, The sprag is in the "partial hold" mode when the rear band is applied, due to its smaller size the rear band has limited holding power. The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway

Re: bolt in sprag failure [Re: John_Kunkel] #272215 04/02/09 07:52 PM 04/02/09 07:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 681 Illinois 4 493_Scamp super gas
493_Scamp super gas 4 Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 681 Illinois	So the low band slips? I thought it would be capable to handle the load by itself without slippage. Am I correct in my thinking that the sprag only moves a fraction of an inch before it locks or does it slip a measurable amount.By hand they appear to lock instantly. Doesnt the THM 400 use no roller and a band only for first? I know my 727 needs an aftermarket front drum to be safe but I was thinking the LBA was going to make it bulletproof at least as far as sprag failure. I'm footbraking in the 10s with no LBA and factory drum,with factory sprag I drilled and bolted myself.

Re: bolt in sprag failure [Re: 493_Scamp] #272216 04/02/09 08:22 PM 04/02/09 08:22 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 11,179 Atco NJ DJVCuda I Live Here
DJVCuda I Live Here Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 11,179 Atco NJ	Quote: So the low band slips? I thought it would be capable to handle the load by itself without slippage. Am I correct in my thinking that the sprag only moves a fraction of an inch before it locks or does it slip a measurable amount.By hand they appear to lock instantly. Doesnt the THM 400 use no roller and a band only for first? I know my 727 needs an aftermarket front drum to be safe but I was thinking the LBA was going to make it bulletproof at least as far as sprag failure. I'm footbraking in the 10s with no LBA and factory drum,with factory sprag I drilled and bolted myself. and you are risking a drum explosion! www.moparenthusiast.com Read this months issue - it has a 727 article that will explain alot of this.

Re: bolt in sprag failure [Re: turbobitt] #272217 04/03/09 05:40 AM 04/03/09 05:40 AM
Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 4,647 aotearoa rebel OP master
rebel OP master Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 4,647 aotearoa	Quote: Is it just me or does this thing look like it got hot ? Maybe lack of oil lub somehow? Is there any galling on the mainshaft or governor support(or whatever they call it)? Allan G. HOT!!! oh yeah. went thru the traps had a quick scan of the guages & thought"damn, trans temp guage is f....." it was reading zero. on the return road i looked again & saw it reading 220* & dropping. the needle was held back from going around again by the zero pin. it was still full of fluid & the debris was two big chucks of alloy & the sprag springs ground up in the pan @ the back. cooler only had 3 specs of alloy after flushing. no damage to anything else except 1 band has a lil alloy in it too. i'm guessing the being low band was why i could still drive back to the pit?? Last edited by rebel; 04/03/09 05:21 PM.

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