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Re: Paint job on a budget!?
#27078
03/11/07 08:53 PM
03/11/07 08:53 PM
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A couple of thoughts....Thin means thin. Yeah, thin paint and thin coats. My first coat I measure by feel and thinned till I thought I had the consistency of milk. When I did 2 and 3 I actually poured the paint into a marked can and added 30% mineral spirits, not milky yet. Added a dash more to about 40% by volume it was milky.
The tendency I think is to thin the paint too little unless you really measure it as you thin it. Then still apply in thin coats.
If you just have a week in the evenings, I don't think you'd have time to do this right. It does take some time mostly due to the drying process.
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Re: Paint job on a budget!?
#27079
03/11/07 09:05 PM
03/11/07 09:05 PM
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Kinda what I thought, too. Those results look so good that it makes you want to jump right in. But...I also have a 66 Mustang waiting in the wings, so the truck would be good practice for it. Better to do it right. Plus, i just checked the weather and it's supposed to rain all week...go figure. Practically never rains in Dallas- but now it's going to!
I bought some supplies ( no brightside yet, just rustoleum), so maybe I'll practice on an old hood I've got while I'm waiting.
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Re: Paint job on a budget!?
[Re: 1BAD68]
#27080
03/11/07 09:15 PM
03/11/07 09:15 PM
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I did the exact same thing. My old paint was so dead & flat that the shine of the first coat revealed dings I had missed. Back on pg 59 is a picture of my hood after I put on 1 coat too thick, sanded it back, did some more bondo work, & did 2 THINLY APPLIED coats. The bondo is still visible but you can see the shine coming on. It's easy to get all excited & try to rush it. I had to learn the hard way myself & 69charger gives good advice when he suggests doing a test/learning experience on a scrap panel or whatever is available.
So BAD68, whatcha got under the hood of that thing?
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Re: Paint job on a budget!?
#27081
03/11/07 11:05 PM
03/11/07 11:05 PM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 30
Ohio
pdqvsix
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Ohio
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Quote:
A couple of thoughts....Thin means thin. Yeah, thin paint and thin coats. My first coat I measure by feel and thinned till I thought I had the consistency of milk. When I did 2 and 3 I actually poured the paint into a marked can and added 30% mineral spirits, not milky yet. Added a dash more to about 40% by volume it was milky.
That's what i did also, i went to Biglots and bought one of those clear plastic measuring cups to get close to the same mixture of paint and MS everytime i was ready to roll. There is no bad results from rolling the paint on to thin but will be if you do it to thick,less is better and you won't have to wet sand as much. Thin paint and thin coats.  
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Re: Paint job on a budget!?
[Re: pdqvsix]
#27082
03/12/07 12:28 AM
03/12/07 12:28 AM
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Quote:
I am only using a cheap $20 buffer and no special pads but the finish is very good for what i'm using,
Where did you get the $20 buffer? Is it a random action orbital or simple orbital? What's the brand name? Can you link to it online?
Thanks!
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Re: Paint job on a budget!?
#27083
03/12/07 01:13 AM
03/12/07 01:13 AM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 30
Ohio
pdqvsix
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Posts: 30
Ohio
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Quote:
Quote:
I am only using a cheap $20 buffer and no special pads but the finish is very good for what i'm using,
Where did you get the $20 buffer? Is it a random action orbital or simple orbital? What's the brand name? Can you link to it online?
Thanks!
I bought it on ebay. It's a Motorist brand and it is a simple orbital 2500 rpm
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Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
#27084
03/12/07 05:15 PM
03/12/07 05:15 PM
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It contains "hexamethylene di-isocyanates." I looked up the info on that chemical and found this: http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/tfacts120.htmlI also found the MSDS for the Van Sickle enamel hardener: http://www.vansicklepaint.com/7019X.PDFThe number one ingredient by weight is the Isocyanate. I also called the local OSHA office, and they said that the primary danger of isocyanates is in spraying -- breathing the fine droplets. They recommended good ventilation and wearing a respirator. So ... I'm thinking maybe you are right about this. Perhaps the primary danger for isocyanates is for spraying. Rolling should be fine IF YOU USE A PROPER ORGANIC VAPOR RESPIRATOR.
After the results I've had with the hardener, I'm convinced it's the way to make this process work. When I do have more time (whenever that is) I'm going to do some more work with it. Safety shouldn't be an issue, as long as (like you said) you wear the proper respirator.
The hardeners look kinda scary, especially with "cyanide" part of isocyanates. Boat sites mention the use of Japan Dryers to speed up the drying time. Although not completely safe, wouldn't the use of a Japan Dryer be less scary?
http://www.clcboats.com/forum/bbs.pl/cart_id=/?read=76556
http://www.go2marine.com/product.do?no=32695F
http://www.wmbarr.com/msds/QJD40.pdf
http://www.packserv.com/Data/Products/Data-Sheets/1585826406.pdf
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Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
#27085
03/12/07 05:55 PM
03/12/07 05:55 PM
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Last edited by 69DartGT; 03/12/07 06:24 PM.
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Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
#27086
03/12/07 05:58 PM
03/12/07 05:58 PM
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Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
#27087
03/12/07 07:03 PM
03/12/07 07:03 PM
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That's looking good Tomarse! Bugs are great way to learn how to paint with this method. In addition to flat areas, bugs have so many other frustrating surfaces to deal with(sharp edges and corners, convex and concave curves.) After painting a bug with this method, you'll find painting modern cars a breeze.
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Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
#27088
03/12/07 07:24 PM
03/12/07 07:24 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,220
toronto canada
69chargeryeehaa
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,220
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Quote:
That's looking good Tomarse! Bugs are great way to learn how to paint with this method. In addition to flat areas, bugs have so many other frustrating surfaces to deal with(sharp edges and corners, convex and concave curves.) After painting a bug with this method, you'll find painting modern cars a breeze.
true and not true, lots of curves and crevices to deal with, but looooong straight pannels show way more flaws!!! i guess it's a trade-off, deal with the curves or the long straight pannels!!!. But at least bugs are small!!.
awesome job on the bug!! 
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Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
[Re: 69chargeryeehaa]
#27089
03/12/07 09:01 PM
03/12/07 09:01 PM
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Where are you finding more colors of Rustoleum ?
Home depot only seems to have a couple colors in gallons,
my local Walmart did not have any gallons.
Also none of the places I went to today had the Sureline rollers,
I got something similiar at Lowes.
I would rather buy a gallon , even if I do not use it all so its the same color if I need to redo something later.
Dave
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Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
[Re: ONEBADBIRD]
#27091
03/12/07 10:15 PM
03/12/07 10:15 PM
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Agreed- I was back on my mustang forum today after spending time over here reading this thread, and lo and behold, what do I see but a thread about the famous "$50 paint job"....it is definitely catching on, although it is a new post over there with some nay-sayers. I found myself defending the process, and I haven't even done it yet!!
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Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
#27092
03/12/07 10:21 PM
03/12/07 10:21 PM
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Anonymous
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Quote:
The hardeners look kinda scary, especially with "cyanide" part of isocyanates. Boat sites mention the use of Japan Dryers to speed up the drying time. Although not completely safe, wouldn't the use of a Japan Dryer be less scary?
Looking at the MSDS for the Japan dryer, they mention "convulsions and death"  . Actually, it looks like they're just 80-95% solvent, and like any VOC help speed drying time by evaporation. It probably would help it dry faster, but then you wouldn't get the other benefits of using a hardener. It's probably no more harmful than a can of carb cleaner. Isocyonates on the other hand really are nasty, but no more dangerous than other things we do with cars working on them if you take the proper safety precautions. I wouldn't crawl under my car if it was only supported by a jack (no stands) and I wouldn't try welding without my helmet...and I wouldn't paint with this stuff without a respirator.
NIOSH and OSHA say it's fine...just use organic vapor carts and keep them fresh. If don't want to go out and spend $40 for a respirator, don't even think about using this stuff. I actually use mine all the time when working on my rigs...anytime I have to spray something high in VOCs, or generate a lot of dust (sanding/grinding). Be nice to your lungs, and they'll be nice to you  .
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Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
#27093
03/12/07 11:07 PM
03/12/07 11:07 PM
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Ok I am 5 coats in on the Galaxie roof and I don't know.... I painted 2x sanded with 800, 2 more and wet sanded with 800 and one more tonight.
I am measuring and have a milky consistency and squeeze the roller good before applying. I get lots of bubble and what sure looks like too much orange peel for my taste. I don't yet begin to see that smooth unbroken glossy paint coat you get with a spray?
I am putting it on thin....maybe so thin that it's not putting enough paint on? When the bubbles are blown or rolled out it seems to me that the paint isn't really covering the surface uniformly. It's almost like a stippling effect.
Am I too few coats in to still be getting the coverage and surface I'll see on the final coat or two? It's white on white.
Sheesh
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Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
#27094
03/13/07 01:00 AM
03/13/07 01:00 AM
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Anonymous
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Quote:
The hardeners look kinda scary, especially with "cyanide" part of isocyanates. Boat sites mention the use of Japan Dryers to speed up the drying time. Although not completely safe, wouldn't the use of a Japan Dryer be less scary?
http://www.wmbarr.com/msds/QJD40.pdf
The MSDS says that Japan dryers are 85% Stoddard Solvents. "Stoddard solvents" is just another name for mineral spirits. In addition to that, the # 3, 5, and 6 ingredients are salts, which we used in O-chem lab to absorb atmospheric water from a compound. The other two ingredients are solvents. So ... these japan dryers might dry the paint a little faster than mineral spirits, but not a whole lot. I think if you are looking simply for speed, you should use Acetone as a reducer. It will dry quite fast.
The primary benefit for the hardener is that it promotes a chemical reaction that makes the paint dry "harder," faster, and with better gloss.
Yes, the isocyanates can be scary if you don't understand them, but once you realize they don't evaporate into the air, you can see it is safe for rolling/brushing with a proper respirator and hand/body/eye protection.
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Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
[Re: Exit1965]
#27096
03/13/07 09:11 AM
03/13/07 09:11 AM
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Well something is definitely not right because what I have looks almost like a vinyl roof. It's glossy enough but nowhere near smooth. I really think I am using thin enough paint and thin applications but it doesn't want to lay right. Could this be a wrong roller issue? When I squeeze out the roller and press hard I get more bubbles than Lawrence Welk.
Do I need to go back with 150 and take all or most of this off to start over?
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WOW what a hot topic, I have been watching it since day one when the question was first asked looking for a cheap paint job. Now people around the world are joining the roller club. I plan on using this method myself soon as the metal work is done. Hey 69charger you have created one heck of an AWESOME epidemic 
