rear sway bar for inboard leaf spings ??
#2682014
07/28/19 12:27 PM
07/28/19 12:27 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 342 dracut mass usa
sparcy
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Posts: 342
dracut mass usa
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Moved the rear leaf springs in on my 1969 charger and looking for sway bar Ideas one person told me a circle track , you can cut it to length . I put a 345 rear tire on a 20x12 rim with 6 inch back space . and kept the inner factory wheel well . has over a inch of clearance on the inside tire to tub . I want to put a sway bar in and any shock recommendations ?? I put ESOP rear 2 inch lower leaf springs . wish I went with the EATON . car is now in front end shop getting dialed in I put all QA1 front control arms in. thanks
IF YOU ARE NOT WRECKING STUFF YOU ARE NOT LEARNING !
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Re: rear sway bar for inboard leaf spings ??
[Re: sparcy]
#2692922
08/30/19 02:17 PM
08/30/19 02:17 PM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 46 raleigh, NC
mcmopar1
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raleigh, NC
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Moved the rear leaf springs in on my 1969 charger and looking for sway bar Ideas one person told me a circle track , you can cut it to length . I put a 345 rear tire on a 20x12 rim with 6 inch back space . and kept the inner factory wheel well . has over a inch of clearance on the inside tire to tub . I want to put a sway bar in and any shock recommendations ?? I put ESOP rear 2 inch lower leaf springs . wish I went with the EATON . car is now in front end shop getting dialed in I put all QA1 front control arms in. thanks Pictures please, how was the handling affected?
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Re: rear sway bar for inboard leaf spings ??
[Re: mcmopar1]
#2693010
08/30/19 08:51 PM
08/30/19 08:51 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696 Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
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Moved the rear leaf springs in on my 1969 charger and looking for sway bar Ideas one person told me a circle track , you can cut it to length . I put a 345 rear tire on a 20x12 rim with 6 inch back space . and kept the inner factory wheel well . has over a inch of clearance on the inside tire to tub . I want to put a sway bar in and any shock recommendations ?? I put ESOP rear 2 inch lower leaf springs . wish I went with the EATON . car is now in front end shop getting dialed in I put all QA1 front control arms in. thanks Pictures please, how was the handling affected? Sounds like we are not yet at the driving/testing phase. My question was going to be, how does one know they even need a rear sway bar at this point, based on info shared so far?
Last edited by jcc; 09/03/19 02:20 PM.
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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Re: rear sway bar for inboard leaf spings ??
[Re: Sniper]
#2693131
08/31/19 11:49 AM
08/31/19 11:49 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,394 Pikes Peak Country
TC@HP2
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that's 3 inches per side, ~60# change in rate, that's pretty substantial. No, IMO, it is not. 30# per spring, 60# total for the axle. As a percentage of rear roll couple, its even less. I'd bet that are maybe 10-12 guys on this entire site that can feel that slight of change. Coil springs are only available down to 50# difference per side, which is only 10# less, on a single side, than the 60# total we're talking about. To change the entire axle spring rate would be 100# difference, 40# MORE than we're talking about. Lets put it this way, if you are a good enough driver to feel the difference in under/over steer between a full tank of gas and a half tank of gas, then you are good enough driver to feel a 60# spring rate change. The rest of us are simply mathematically masturbating.
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Re: rear sway bar for inboard leaf spings ??
[Re: TC@HP2]
#2693560
09/02/19 12:22 AM
09/02/19 12:22 AM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 46 raleigh, NC
mcmopar1
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raleigh, NC
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that's 3 inches per side, ~60# change in rate, that's pretty substantial. No, IMO, it is not. 30# per spring, 60# total for the axle. As a percentage of rear roll couple, its even less. I'd bet that are maybe 10-12 guys on this entire site that can feel that slight of change. Coil springs are only available down to 50# difference per side, which is only 10# less, on a single side, than the 60# total we're talking about. To change the entire axle spring rate would be 100# difference, 40# MORE than we're talking about. Lets put it this way, if you are a good enough driver to feel the difference in under/over steer between a full tank of gas and a half tank of gas, then you are good enough driver to feel a 60# spring rate change. The rest of us are simply mathematically masturbating. Thank you!
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Re: rear sway bar for inboard leaf spings ??
[Re: Sniper]
#2693902
09/03/19 11:04 AM
09/03/19 11:04 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,394 Pikes Peak Country
TC@HP2
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This segment of the discussion was all about how relocation of springs impacts handling. My answer is its a minor change. You average mopar leaf spring is around 140-160# spring rate, more if you have SS springs. Moving it inboard removes 10# or 30# of rate, depending on which kit you use. While we both agree that softens it slightly, we disagree on the magnitude of that change and now you are now including roll resistance into that discussion. Okay, fine. Part of the roll resistance of a mopar leaf spring is imparted by its 2.5" width. This is not directly related to its spring rate and is more difficult to quantify, but, moving the leaf inboard does not change the width of the leaf pack, nor this resistance to leaf twist, or body roll. If you are talking about post 71 B Bodies, E bodies, or F bodies, the mounting angles of the leaf also are part of the roll resistance formula. So we are still left with a relatively minor change in the applied spring rate. Changing springs is pressure on the tires, similar to adding or subtracting gas to the tank. A 30# change in spring rate is like adding or subtracting half a tank of gas. Simple spring rate change. Can you feel it? A few can, most cannot.
Regarding anti-sway bars; Stock bars do not have adjustable mounting points. They also are no bigger around than your small finger. Don't mix those in with adjustable sway bars nearing or exceeding 1" in diameter or of tubular construction. The aftermarket bars that are much larger or offer adjustable points tend to have rates well over 220#. If you know much at all about roll resistance, than it goes without saying that small changes in sway bars have a much bigger impact that similar small changes in spring rate. The same applies to torsion bar diameter changes vs coil springs suspensions. For example; a .125" change in sway bar diameter could have the same impact as a 150# change in spring rate when it comes to roll resistance. So the incremental changes in sway bar mounting locations have a much bigger impact on the feel of roll resistance than a similar change in spring rate. In other words, each one of those holes in the adjustable bar is like adding or subtracting another whole tank of gas to the car whereas just changing spring rates is like changing half a tank of gas. Which do you think is more noticeable?
To summarize; 1 - moving leafs inboard creates changes to applied wheel rates 2 - leaf width and mounting angles are factors in roll resistance 3 - Anti-sway bar diameters and connecting points may have a bigger impact on handling than spring rates
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