Laying in the pan of my 46Re trans. What is it?
#2674595
07/05/19 08:33 PM
07/05/19 08:33 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,614 Freeport IL USA
poorboy
OP
I Live Here
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OP
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,614
Freeport IL USA
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The trans in my hot rod pickup has had a pretty rough life in its short time (about 500 miles spread out over a couple of months). It started off with water in the trans. We assume the water got into the torque converter between the time it was pulled from my son's car and got installed in my truck. 2 power flushes, and two rounds of dropping the pan, changing the filter, and adding Trans X after a 30 minute run and finally the fluid was (and is) clean. Then I had an issue with seals leaking, which have been solved. Then I can't feel it shift so I had my buddy put the truck on his scan tool. Governor pressure was at 106 lbs. I just dropped the pan to install the new governor pressure switch and the transducer. The fluid looked great, the bottom of the pan is pretty clean, except for the pieces in the pictures. The material looks to me like it is clutch material, but the edges show no curve, both edges are parallel and the pieces are about a 1/2" wide between the straight edges. It appears to have originally been straight line pieces, nothing like I've never seen in an auto trans before. Laid out in one line, it could have been 12" long, or more then one piece at least 2 1/2" long (the longest piece is 2"), none of the pieces have a straight edge on either end. From a side view the pieces are about 1/16" thick. The longest piece has a slight curve when viewed from the side. One surface is shinny smooth and the other surface is slightly rough (like one would expect from an auto trans clutch disc).
The last picture shows the back side (smooth side) of the biggest piece. You can see the imprint of something round in bedded in the material. Three of the other smaller pieces also show this round mark, but it is not as pronounced.
The "O" ring is from the trans dipstick, ignore it a new seal has been installed.
I'm not expecting any good news, but I would like to have an idea what this material is and where it may have come from. Thanks Gene
Last edited by poorboy; 07/05/19 08:34 PM.
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Re: Laying in the pan of my 46Re trans. What is it?
[Re: A727Tflite]
#2674656
07/06/19 12:15 AM
07/06/19 12:15 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,614 Freeport IL USA
poorboy
OP
I Live Here
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OP
I Live Here
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Posts: 10,614
Freeport IL USA
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The magnet is pretty clean, as was the bottom of the pan. This stuff stood out really well against the relatively shiny steel pan bottom. I wiped both the magnet and the bottom of the pan off with one of those blue disposable shop towels. The trans fluid was very clean. There is probably only 200-300 miles on this fluid change, and only about 30 miles on it since we put it on the scanner. Probably hasn't had enough use to turn everything into a Chia pet yet.
This stuff is definitely not metal, it crumbles like clutch lining material. Wed night when I drove the truck to my shop, when you left a red light, it felt like it was in 3rd. It slipped a bit (about 1/2 way across an intersection) then felt like the clutch quit slipping and would pull pretty good up to 30 mph. Could not feel it shift at all, but if you manually pulled it into low and shifted, you could feel it shift one time before you reached 30 mph.
I suppose it would be a waste of ATF+4 to fill it and try to get another couple of months out of the trans, right? Gene
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Re: Laying in the pan of my 46Re trans. What is it?
[Re: poorboy]
#2674676
07/06/19 04:21 AM
07/06/19 04:21 AM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,647 in a cattle trailer down by th...
Guitar Jones
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
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Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,647
in a cattle trailer down by th...
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That is front band lining. Water will dissolve the adhesive.
"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion. '74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost conversion. 2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
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Re: Laying in the pan of my 46Re trans. What is it?
[Re: Guitar Jones]
#2674679
07/06/19 06:12 AM
07/06/19 06:12 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421 Balt. Md
383man
Too Many Posts
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Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
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That is front band lining. Water will dissolve the adhesive. That's what I thought also as to me it looks like a band lining came off ? Ron
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Re: Laying in the pan of my 46Re trans. What is it?
[Re: 383man]
#2674690
07/06/19 07:52 AM
07/06/19 07:52 AM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,089 Michigan
A727Tflite
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,089
Michigan
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So what you show crumbles? Sorry, didn’t catch that.
If that’s the case I would agree - band lining failed.
Last edited by Transman; 07/06/19 08:15 PM.
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Re: Laying in the pan of my 46Re trans. What is it?
[Re: A727Tflite]
#2675127
07/07/19 10:48 AM
07/07/19 10:48 AM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,647 in a cattle trailer down by th...
Guitar Jones
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
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Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,647
in a cattle trailer down by th...
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I’d pull the pan and see how it looks inside.
If the front band is the one that debonded and the drum is ok you could pull the valve body, replace the band and replace the governor solenoid and transducer.
You may get lucky and get you through the summer until you can do a rebuild.
If the water damaged the front band no telling how long the discs and other band will last. How do you replace the band without pulling the pump? Because I've tried before and never could do it.
"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion. '74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost conversion. 2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
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Re: Laying in the pan of my 46Re trans. What is it?
[Re: dart4forte]
#2675185
07/07/19 01:21 PM
07/07/19 01:21 PM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,089 Michigan
A727Tflite
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,089
Michigan
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Interesting.
Never had an occasion to replace one in a vehicle but was told that they could be.
Guess I was told wrong.
Maybe try searching PATC for “slip in front band”.
Last edited by Transman; 07/07/19 03:46 PM.
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Re: Laying in the pan of my 46Re trans. What is it?
[Re: A727Tflite]
#2675278
07/07/19 05:50 PM
07/07/19 05:50 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,647 in a cattle trailer down by th...
Guitar Jones
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
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Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,647
in a cattle trailer down by th...
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I have seen them for the Ford C6 because it was a pretty common problem but I've not seen one for a 727. I guess they make them now but since this trans has already delaminated the band I would say cut the losses and overhaul it now.
"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion. '74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost conversion. 2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
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Re: Laying in the pan of my 46Re trans. What is it?
[Re: Guitar Jones]
#2675342
07/07/19 09:02 PM
07/07/19 09:02 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421 Balt. Md
383man
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
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I’d pull the pan and see how it looks inside.
If the front band is the one that debonded and the drum is ok you could pull the valve body, replace the band and replace the governor solenoid and transducer.
You may get lucky and get you through the summer until you can do a rebuild.
If the water damaged the front band no telling how long the discs and other band will last. How do you replace the band without pulling the pump? Because I've tried before and never could do it. I did it years ago in a GM or Ford auto trans as it was long ago. At that time I worked at an independent shop and they wanted me to just pop a band in it which I normally would not do as I would want to tear the trans down and check it all out. But the shop I worked at got a two-piece slip-in band. I had to cut the old band with metal cutters and then slip the new band in which had a removable end so it would fit in and then the one end could be put on and installed. I did not care for that type of band but that's what they wanted. Never tried one on a Mopar but I guess it could be done with the two piece slip-in band. Course you would have to drop the valve body. Ron
Last edited by 383man; 07/07/19 09:05 PM.
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