Rocker ratio questions
#2592761
12/16/18 02:07 PM
12/16/18 02:07 PM
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fourgearsavoy
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What are the benefits of going to a 1.6 or 1.7 rocker ratio versus just getting the correct cam to start with. Is there some sort of mechanical advantage with a higher ratio rocker? It seems that hardly anyone runs a 1.5 rocker anymore judging from some of the builds I've seen here. Gus
64 Plymouth Savoy 493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow 5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box Dana 60
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Re: Rocker ratio questions
[Re: fourgearsavoy]
#2592829
12/16/18 04:19 PM
12/16/18 04:19 PM
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MR_P_BODY
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The only way to know for sure if you could use a bigger ratio is to test it by tightening the intake lash some.. I run a tighter lash on my engines.. thats cheaper than buying new intake rockers.. I have never seen the engine make more power changing the exhaust ratio unless its WAY off
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Re: Rocker ratio questions
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#2592843
12/16/18 04:39 PM
12/16/18 04:39 PM
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StealthWedge67
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I have never seen the engine make more power changing the exhaust ratio unless its WAY off I see this consistently from guys that have a lot of experience, so I trust it to be true. But it begs the question: why does every split pattern cam I’ve ever looked at feature more lift and duration on the exhaust side of the equation? I’m planning on going from my current 1.5 to 1.6 rockers this winter for the following reason: last year I had my heads ported and prepped, and the flow sheet says they continue offering more flow well past .650 lift while my current cam offers net .555 lift. My theory is that in my case more lift and effective ramp speed should benefit me (??). The rest of the combo (carb/intake/exhaust) should also adequately support more flow. Hopefully we’ll see if I’m correct.
LemonWedge - Street heavy / Strip ready - 11.07 @ 120
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Re: Rocker ratio questions
[Re: StealthWedge67]
#2592850
12/16/18 04:50 PM
12/16/18 04:50 PM
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MR_P_BODY
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I have never seen the engine make more power changing the exhaust ratio unless its WAY off I see this consistently from guys that have a lot of experience, so I trust it to be true. But it begs the question: why does every split pattern cam I’ve ever looked at feature more lift and duration on the exhaust side of the equation? I’m planning on going from my current 1.5 to 1.6 rockers this winter for the following reason: last year I had my heads ported and prepped, and the flow sheet says they continue offering more flow well past .650 lift while my current cam offers net .555 lift. My theory is that in my case more lift and effective ramp speed should benefit me (??). The rest of the combo (carb/intake/exhaust) should also adequately support more flow. Hopefully we’ll see if I’m correct. My W-9 heads were known for having good exhaust flow and I had the rockers to change over so I did.. the car didnt show any change with just the exhaust.. all I can say is test it and see
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Re: Rocker ratio questions
[Re: fourgearsavoy]
#2592853
12/16/18 04:56 PM
12/16/18 04:56 PM
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sgcuda
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First, most split pattern cams I have used may have more exhaust duration than intake, but always have less lift. Second, if your heads can handle more flow than what you are creating now, than a 1.6 rocker will help. Higher ratio rockers not only give you more lift, they also give you more duration at valve, without creating more motion from lifter or pushrod. Most "Other" brand engines, and even later Magnum engines all use ratios higher than 1.5 these days on production engines. So there is something to be said for higher ratios. My last 500 cid build had Indy -1's with Jesel 1.7 rockers. The cam I chose was based on a BBC grind, that also used factory 1.7 rocker ratio.
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Re: Rocker ratio questions
[Re: fourgearsavoy]
#2592870
12/16/18 05:55 PM
12/16/18 05:55 PM
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AndyF
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I spent a bunch of time and money last year testing rocker arm ratios. The answer is that your engine only needs what it needs. Adding more rocker arm ratio or more duration to the cam doesn't add any power if the engine doesn't need it. Based on my testing I'm pretty confident that a person can build a 700 or 800 hp BB Mopar with 1.50 shaft mount rocker arms and cam lobes right out of the catalog. https://www.hotrod.com/articles/trying-find-extra-power-rocker-arm-testing/
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Re: Rocker ratio questions
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2592910
12/16/18 07:54 PM
12/16/18 07:54 PM
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fourgearsavoy
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This is definitely one of those “ it depends” items. My flat tappet cam lobes are worn and I'm replacing the cam with a hydraulic roller. There aren't many off the shelf grinds available and before I either get one custom ground or buy off the shelf I wan't to know if I should add new rockers to the build. My current rockers are some good old 1.5 Isky's with the premium service from RAS. They are working perfect on my old cam but will they be good with my new cam? My combo 493 10.9 compression Wiseco Pro-Tru flattops Indy EZ heads std. port with some clean-up and valve job by Nick Wilson. They flow 319 at 600. My car is a street/strip deal that runs 10.91 124.6 at 3640# I wouldn't mind a 10.50 time slip in my glovebox. I think I can get more out of my combo with just a valvetrain change. My old cam was a Comp XTQ series 292-312 grind. Thanks Gus
64 Plymouth Savoy 493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow 5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box Dana 60
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Re: Rocker ratio questions
[Re: fourgearsavoy]
#2592996
12/16/18 11:39 PM
12/16/18 11:39 PM
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fast68plymouth
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IMO, your rockers are fine for what you’re looking to do.
Hyd roller vs solid flat tappet for an ET improvement? I guess we’ll see how that works out for you.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Rocker ratio questions
[Re: fourgearsavoy]
#2592999
12/16/18 11:52 PM
12/16/18 11:52 PM
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CSK
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I am not saying to run a hydro roller, BUT, I went from a solid FT to one in my 512, used one from Hughes, 9.7to one, 4050lb street car, solid cam was 248@.050 116 mph 12.03 2200 DA Hyd roller 255,258 @ .050 121 11.33 mph 1750 DA Short shifting 5500, easy pass but I used the expensive High RPM Morel. Still need to do some track tuning. also had better rear tires for the faster pass
Last edited by csk; 12/17/18 12:15 AM.
1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI 512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim 2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5
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Re: Rocker ratio questions
[Re: fourgearsavoy]
#2593006
12/17/18 12:14 AM
12/17/18 12:14 AM
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CSK
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Your Rockers are great, BUT I also went from 1.5, to 1.6, not saying it had anything to do with more power
1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI 512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim 2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5
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Re: Rocker ratio questions
[Re: CSK]
#2593009
12/17/18 12:26 AM
12/17/18 12:26 AM
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fourgearsavoy
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Well I wish I didn't have to do this deal at all but my old cam gave up after about 5 years and I don't want to go flat again. I checked on Morel rollers and they were over a grand and that's just a little much for my build budget. I'm probably going with a Howards cam and lifters they have better reviews than Comp Cams do. Gus
64 Plymouth Savoy 493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow 5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box Dana 60
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Re: Rocker ratio questions
[Re: fourgearsavoy]
#2593012
12/17/18 12:29 AM
12/17/18 12:29 AM
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CSK
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Morel has 2 versions, I think the Howards are the less cost Morel from what I have been told
1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI 512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim 2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5
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Re: Rocker ratio questions
[Re: fourgearsavoy]
#2593096
12/17/18 12:01 PM
12/17/18 12:01 PM
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polyspheric
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Considering the RT weight, it would be nice to fit a 3/4" pushrod in there for the extra spring load...
Boffin Emeritus
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Re: Rocker ratio questions
[Re: fourgearsavoy]
#2593143
12/17/18 02:16 PM
12/17/18 02:16 PM
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gregsdart
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Maybe I am just too old school, but I don't see the advantage of going HR versus FT solid cam. A solid cam may be a tic noiser, but a few thou tighter on lash helps. plus they are cheaper by a bunch, and allow you to see any problem early on in the valvetrain. Valve lash changed a bit? OK, what caused that? Something is wearing. Easy to find. HR adds two areas for failure; the roller wheels, and the hydraulics.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: Rocker ratio questions
[Re: gregsdart]
#2593153
12/17/18 02:39 PM
12/17/18 02:39 PM
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Maybe I am just too old school, but I don't see the advantage of going HR versus FT solid cam. A solid cam may be a tic noiser, but a few thou tighter on lash helps. plus they are cheaper by a bunch, and allow you to see any problem early on in the valvetrain. Valve lash changed a bit? OK, what caused that? Something is wearing. Easy to find. HR adds two areas for failure; the roller wheels, and the hydraulics. I agreed with everything you just said, until the tool steel solid FT lifters started eating up my camshaft lobes & I had to go back through the engine, I just hope the hydro roller holds up, so far over 2k miles & all is good.
1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI 512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim 2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5
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Re: Rocker ratio questions
[Re: gregsdart]
#2593292
12/17/18 06:49 PM
12/17/18 06:49 PM
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fourgearsavoy
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Maybe I am just too old school, but I don't see the advantage of going HR versus FT solid cam. A solid cam may be a tic noiser, but a few thou tighter on lash helps. plus they are cheaper by a bunch, and allow you to see any problem early on in the valvetrain. Valve lash changed a bit? OK, what caused that? Something is wearing. Easy to find. HR adds two areas for failure; the roller wheels, and the hydraulics. Thats exactly how I found two of my lobes were going round as my lash went wide after the engine got pretty hot. People tried telling me to go roller when I built this engine but I wanted to keep it simple. Roller technology has come a long way in the last 5 years with so many people putting them in street cars now. Going back to a flat tappet cam would really save me a TON of money and work and it's not completely off the table yet. I have considered getting a nitrided cam and EDM lifters then I could keep my oil pump drive,timing chain and cover,pushrods,springs,and retainers. Those are the ancillary costs of switching to a roller. So still trying to talk myself into it or out of it Gus
64 Plymouth Savoy 493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow 5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box Dana 60
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Re: Rocker ratio questions
[Re: fourgearsavoy]
#2593305
12/17/18 07:14 PM
12/17/18 07:14 PM
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fast68plymouth
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Gus, Just curious...... what are the springs pressures you were running with that cam, and what kind of oil?
Any idea of how many miles you put on those parts during those 5 years they were in the motor?
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Rocker ratio questions
[Re: AndyF]
#2593307
12/17/18 07:16 PM
12/17/18 07:16 PM
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fourgearsavoy
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What RPM do you turn the engine? If you aren't spinning it past 6200 or so then the hyd roller should work just fine. If you have deep gears and are running it thru the lights at 6800 or higher then you might want to stay with a flat tappet cam. The EDM lifters might solve your problem and/or add the nitrided cam. I just got off the phone with Bill Gaterman and he answered a lot of my questions about his lifters. They are making a new run of improved lifters that should be done by the end of next month. He also confirmed Howard's Cams uses their lifters under the Howard's name. I shift the car at 6000 and usually trap at 6500. I still use the Edelbrock Performer RPM so I really don't feel it pulling much over 6500. The thing I still don't understand is why do roller lifters with a bronze bushing cost more than roller bearings. Gus
64 Plymouth Savoy 493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow 5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box Dana 60
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Re: Rocker ratio questions
[Re: fourgearsavoy]
#2593312
12/17/18 07:20 PM
12/17/18 07:20 PM
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fast68plymouth
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Did he tell you which part number Howard’s lifter for a BB Mopar application are made by him?
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Rocker ratio questions
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2593316
12/17/18 07:26 PM
12/17/18 07:26 PM
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fourgearsavoy
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Gus, Just curious...... what are the springs pressures you were running with that cam, and what kind of oil? I am running a set of Crower springs 177-486 and I have been running Brad Penn since I broke it in about 5 years ago. I was hot lapping the car trying to dial in an Edelbrock carb to run in NSS and it went over 260 degrees and thats when I noticed the clattering from the valvetrain. Pulled the valve covers off and confirmed #4 intake and #8 ex lobes going flat with a dial indicator. Maybe the oil got thin when it got hot Gus
64 Plymouth Savoy 493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow 5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box Dana 60
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Re: Rocker ratio questions
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2593317
12/17/18 07:28 PM
12/17/18 07:28 PM
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fourgearsavoy
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Did he tell you which part number Howard’s lifter for a BB Mopar application are made by him? No but he did say they were the same as the AMC lifters. Gus
64 Plymouth Savoy 493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow 5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box Dana 60
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Re: Rocker ratio questions
[Re: fourgearsavoy]
#2593326
12/17/18 07:41 PM
12/17/18 07:41 PM
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fast68plymouth
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Sooo, 177lbs on the seat, 486lbs open? That’s way too much for a street strip car if you’re trying to make the cam live...... especially if you’re only turning it 6500. Those are mid-level street roller pressures. And, that’s more than what most of the street/strip type hyd roller lifters are rated for.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Rocker ratio questions
[Re: polyspheric]
#2593410
12/17/18 10:36 PM
12/17/18 10:36 PM
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fourgearsavoy
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WOW that was a lot to process The engines I deal with at work with VVTI have a high volume oil pump with large galleys and that 0-20 synthetic oil really does the job. Still have to sleep on this flat versus hyd.roller cam debate in my head. Gus
64 Plymouth Savoy 493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow 5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box Dana 60
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Re: Rocker ratio questions
[Re: fourgearsavoy]
#2593443
12/17/18 11:07 PM
12/17/18 11:07 PM
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CSK
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These are the lifters I have, note the spring pressure
Return to Parts List
Category : D- Big Block (Low Deck) : Lifters
HUG 6074
BB RACE HYDRAULIC ROLLER LIFTER SET
GOOD FOR UP TO 225# SEAT PRESSURE & 550# OPEN
$919.47
Set of 16 Big Block Hydraulic Race Roller Lifters. These are oil thru lifters and will oil through the pushrods if you need them to.
Suggested maximum spring pressure: 225# on the seat 550# full lift
DO NOT RUN OIL THICKER THAN 5W40 WITH THESE LIFTERS.
.810" roller
* The lifter bores do not need to be bushed to run these lifters. * DO NOT use these lifters with a flat tappet cam!
Note: These lifters also fit the AMC V8 engines.
1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI 512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim 2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5
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Re: Rocker ratio questions
[Re: fourgearsavoy]
#2593444
12/17/18 11:08 PM
12/17/18 11:08 PM
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CSK
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These are the less money ones
HUG 5319
BIG BLOCK HYD ROLLER LIFTER SET
GOOD FOR UP TO 160# SEAT PRESSURE & 380# OPEN
$449.95
Set of 16 Big Block Hydraulic STREET Roller Lifters. These are oil thru lifters and will oil through the pushrods if you need them to.
Suggested maximum spring pressure: 160# on the seat 380# full lift.
For race applications with heavier spring pressures use part # 6074
10W30 oil recommended.
.700" roller
* The lifter bores do not need to be bushed to run these lifters. * DO NOT use these lifters with a flat tappet cam!
Note: These lifters also fit the AMC V8 engines.
Last edited by csk; 12/18/18 12:11 AM.
1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI 512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim 2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5
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Re: Rocker ratio questions
[Re: fourgearsavoy]
#2593492
12/18/18 12:06 AM
12/18/18 12:06 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
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fast68plymouth
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Still have to sleep on this flat versus hyd.roller cam debate in my head. If you stay with a solid, and stick with spring loads like you posted....... expect cam life to not be all that great.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Rocker ratio questions
[Re: polyspheric]
#2593493
12/18/18 12:07 AM
12/18/18 12:07 AM
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madscientist
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I read a very scary article about how oil viscosity affects engine life at start-up: 20W50 takes about a week to reach that last tappet... http://tinyurl.com/ycbdktsg I read that article. Love the fact the author pointed out oil doesn't have a "weight" but has a "grade". One thing I read that I'm not sure of is the author said that synthetic oils don't have VI improvers. I'm not sure that is correct. If I have time tomorrow I may make some phone calls and ask around about that. Other than that, that was a great article.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: Rocker ratio questions
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2593544
12/18/18 01:11 AM
12/18/18 01:11 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
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Cab_Burge
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Still have to sleep on this flat versus hyd.roller cam debate in my head. If you stay with a solid, and stick with spring loads like you posted....... expect cam life to not be all that great. On your deal I would of look for between 140 to 170 lbs. on the seats sand from 325 to 375 Lbs. open
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 12/19/18 04:53 AM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Rocker ratio questions
[Re: fourgearsavoy]
#2593572
12/18/18 02:59 AM
12/18/18 02:59 AM
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Joined: Mar 2009
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tex013
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Maybe I am just too old school, but I don't see the advantage of going HR versus FT solid cam. A solid cam may be a tic noiser, but a few thou tighter on lash helps. plus they are cheaper by a bunch, and allow you to see any problem early on in the valvetrain. Valve lash changed a bit? OK, what caused that? Something is wearing. Easy to find. HR adds two areas for failure; the roller wheels, and the hydraulics. Thats exactly how I found two of my lobes were going round as my lash went wide after the engine got pretty hot. People tried telling me to go roller when I built this engine but I wanted to keep it simple. Roller technology has come a long way in the last 5 years with so many people putting them in street cars now. Going back to a flat tappet cam would really save me a TON of money and work and it's not completely off the table yet. I have considered getting a nitrided cam and EDM lifters then I could keep my oil pump drive,timing chain and cover,pushrods,springs,and retainers. Those are the ancillary costs of switching to a roller. So still trying to talk myself into it or out of it Gus Avoid nitriding your cam . I had mine nitrided brand new at start of 2017 , block split May 2018 . When I pulled cam I was going to reuse it . BUPBOW , surface failed . This was with about 3-5000 street miles and a lot of racing . I was told the heat process softened the core so the surface was hard but brittle. It started to breakup . got a new cam last week ,not nitrided will post a pic off my phone if possible Tex
New best ET 10.259@129.65 . New best MPH 130.32 Finally fitted a solid cam, stepped it up a bit more 3690lbs through the mufflers New World block 3780lbs 10.278@130.80 . Wowser 10.253@130.24 footbraking from 1500rpm Power by Tex's Automotive
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Re: Rocker ratio questions
[Re: tex013]
#2593575
12/18/18 03:04 AM
12/18/18 03:04 AM
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Joined: Mar 2009
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tex013
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By the way the lifters were still like new , Howards EDM
Tex
Last edited by tex013; 12/18/18 03:07 AM.
New best ET 10.259@129.65 . New best MPH 130.32 Finally fitted a solid cam, stepped it up a bit more 3690lbs through the mufflers New World block 3780lbs 10.278@130.80 . Wowser 10.253@130.24 footbraking from 1500rpm Power by Tex's Automotive
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Re: Rocker ratio questions
[Re: fourgearsavoy]
#2593603
12/18/18 04:54 AM
12/18/18 04:54 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421 Balt. Md
383man
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
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Dwayne had my FT cam nitrided and I use the Comp EDM lifters he sent me with it. Its been flawless as the cam and lifters are still working great after almost 8 years. Ron
Last edited by 383man; 12/18/18 05:02 AM.
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Re: Rocker ratio questions
[Re: fourgearsavoy]
#2593610
12/18/18 05:36 AM
12/18/18 05:36 AM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457 Washington
madscientist
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2014
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Washington
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Mike Jones posted some stuff about nitriding cams and IIRC he wasn't much for it because as was mentioned it cause the core to soften.
I don't have issues and I don't even run lifters with holes in them. I think idle speed and oil flow have a lot to do with cams going bad after surviving break in.
I see guys letting their stuff idle down to 700-750 and that's just too slow for fast ramp cams IMHO. My cam will most easily idle at 750 but I cringe if it drops below 900. There is just no reason to let the lifter drag over the lobe.
That's what kills the lobes when new if not started correctly. That slow lifter rotation (or none at all) kills them. Prolonged slow idle is not good for them.
Also, the oil pressure and flow is way down at those engine speeds, even if you use a HV pump.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: Rocker ratio questions
[Re: fourgearsavoy]
#2593616
12/18/18 05:55 AM
12/18/18 05:55 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421 Balt. Md
383man
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
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I have my idle about 1000 in gear because with my converter it drops to much if I lower it much more. I had Dwayne nitride my cam because he did recommend it and I felt the EDM lifters with the oil hole on the bottom sounded like a good idea. And so far its worked great since I first fired her up in June 2011 . Dwayne also recommended I stay with the flat tappet since I told him I plan to drive it a lot on the street and did not want to pull my lifters at 3000 or more miles to have them checked over if I had gone with a solid roller. And of course I don't have to run all that spring pressure and change my springs as often as a solid roller as my springs are about 140 on the seat and around 350 open. I admit as I get older I like having to do less maintenance on my car. In my younger years I enjoyed it more. Now my mind enjoys it as much but my body not as much. Its a bummer getting older. LoL. Ron
Last edited by 383man; 12/18/18 05:56 AM.
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Re: Rocker ratio questions
[Re: 383man]
#2593728
12/18/18 01:31 PM
12/18/18 01:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,376
dogdays
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,376
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https://www.bizol.com/company/education/lubricant-knowledge-base/why-synthetic-motor-oil/If the synthetic oil has a viscosity index that is high enough, VI improvers need not be added. In any case, synthetic oils need much less VI improver than mineral oils. The problem with VI improvers is they tend to shear down with use and lose viscosity at high temperatures. Years and years ago GM had a problem with people using 10W-40 with subsequent engine failure. That was late '70s early '80s. They determined that the VI improvers were coming apart under high stress loads, like in the 350 Diesel, and the oil would lose viscosity and allow metal-to-metal contact. I believe there was even a warning put in owners manuals that if using 10W-40 oil, the warranty was void. R.
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Re: Rocker ratio questions
[Re: dogdays]
#2593733
12/18/18 01:41 PM
12/18/18 01:41 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457 Washington
madscientist
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
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https://www.bizol.com/company/education/lubricant-knowledge-base/why-synthetic-motor-oil/If the synthetic oil has a viscosity index that is high enough, VI improvers need not be added. In any case, synthetic oils need much less VI improver than mineral oils. The problem with VI improvers is they tend to shear down with use and lose viscosity at high temperatures. Years and years ago GM had a problem with people using 10W-40 with subsequent engine failure. That was late '70s early '80s. They determined that the VI improvers were coming apart under high stress loads, like in the 350 Diesel, and the oil would lose viscosity and allow metal-to-metal contact. I believe there was even a warning put in owners manuals that if using 10W-40 oil, the warranty was void. R. I just read the first bit as I don't have time to read it all right now. The curious thing is in Germany it's agains the law to palm off as synthetic oil stuff that is NOT synthetic. I've never seen a real Group IV synthetic oil work with alcohol fuels, but the group III oils will. That's because they are not really synthetic oils. It also stated that Group IV oils (PAO's) are gasoline based. I thought they were natural gas based or alcohol based. Again, I have to check my sources. I may be confusing the Ester based stuff with PAO's. The reason why it's legal in the US to call an oil synthetic when it isn't can be traced to a lawsuit that went to SCOTUS and a bunch of moron judges who've never lifted a hood let alone looked at a can of oil for purchase decided that refined hydrocarbons are indeed synthetic!!! That literally makes all oil a synthetic of sorts. The courts should have stayed the hell out of it, but there was money to be made (I should say money to made by the snooker) and in the end, the big money paid enough to grease the skid and make what is not, real.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: Rocker ratio questions
[Re: fourgearsavoy]
#2593896
12/18/18 06:26 PM
12/18/18 06:26 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,207 New York
polyspheric
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,207
New York
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Judgments that cost an industry (Dow Corning) billions, no proof offered as to causation: silicone breast implants.
Boffin Emeritus
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Re: Rocker ratio questions
[Re: fourgearsavoy]
#2594106
12/19/18 03:02 AM
12/19/18 03:02 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319 Puyallup, WA
StealthWedge67
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319
Puyallup, WA
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My Engle flat tappet cam is going on 10 years now with no issues. I use the matching springs from Engle, they are doubles and offer 150 & 350 lbs respectively. I’ve been using Lucas “HotRod” 10w-30 along with a zinc additive for years, after breaking it in on JoeGibs BR-30. I used to see a lot of posts about cams going flat, but not so much anymore. I think for a while the oils were not up to the task, and many of us were uneducated about it. Now most of us understand the differences in oils needed to run a flat tappet cam.
LemonWedge - Street heavy / Strip ready - 11.07 @ 120
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Re: Rocker ratio questions
[Re: fourgearsavoy]
#2594129
12/19/18 06:44 AM
12/19/18 06:44 AM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,785 Utah and Alaska
astjp2
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,785
Utah and Alaska
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Why not a solid roller, less weight and you can still do pushrod oiling...and the cost is not through the roof. Tim
1941 Taylorcraft 1968 Charger 1994 Wrangler 1998 Wrangler 2008 Kia Rio 2017 Jetta
I didn't do 4 years and 9 months of Graduate School to be called Mister!
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Re: Rocker ratio questions
[Re: fourgearsavoy]
#2594202
12/19/18 12:49 PM
12/19/18 12:49 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,207 New York
polyspheric
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,207
New York
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An auxiliary spring does most of what a hydraulic does: take the slack out of the valve train so the roller needles don't come crashing down constantly at idle. Getting the roller up to speed every time it touches down is a bad thing. Don't thank me, the idea is pre-WW2. Why not now? It costs $8.00 on a production line that the stockholders don't get.
Boffin Emeritus
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Re: Rocker ratio questions
[Re: StealthWedge67]
#2594373
12/19/18 06:42 PM
12/19/18 06:42 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,214 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,214
Bend,OR USA
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I seem to remember all the cam company having to buy imported solid flat tappet and flat tappet hydraulic lifters as the real reason for all the cam failures back then. I heard the cam companies blaming the removal of Zinc from the oils as causing all those problem I also seem to remember hearing that those issues ended up with Jonhsion (SP?) Controls getting back into making all of those better quality type lifter back here in the U.S.A Maybe I'm mistaken again
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 12/19/18 07:05 PM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Rocker ratio questions
[Re: astjp2]
#2594454
12/19/18 10:04 PM
12/19/18 10:04 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,555 Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy
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Why not a solid roller, less weight and you can still do pushrod oiling...and the cost is not through the roof. Tim A solid roller doesn't like to idle,I guess not enough oil to the roller from what I've read. I was on the fence when I built this engine years ago roller or solid. From what I have researched the Hydraulic roller keeps constant pressure on the lobe instead of banging the roller every time the ramp comes with a solid roller. I could be wrong but this issue has been beat to death on many many forums. I think I may be going back to a flat solid just for the simple fact I have other uses for $1000 and I like the way a flat solid revs with a stick car. Now I have to pick a grind or have one custom ground Gus
64 Plymouth Savoy 493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow 5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box Dana 60
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Re: Rocker ratio questions
[Re: fourgearsavoy]
#2594455
12/19/18 10:09 PM
12/19/18 10:09 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,504 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,504
So. Burlington, Vt.
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Now I have to pick a grind or have one custom ground And........ buy new springs.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Rocker ratio questions
[Re: fourgearsavoy]
#2594491
12/19/18 11:42 PM
12/19/18 11:42 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,207 New York
polyspheric
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,207
New York
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Hydraulic roller keeps constant pressure on the lobe That's the idea. Is there ever a point where the lobe shape is so violent that, at idle, oil pressure cannot keep the tappet inflated and it develops lash anyway? Who knows.
Boffin Emeritus
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Re: Rocker ratio questions
[Re: polyspheric]
#2594515
12/20/18 12:30 AM
12/20/18 12:30 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421 Balt. Md
383man
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
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An auxiliary spring does most of what a hydraulic does: take the slack out of the valve train so the roller needles don't come crashing down constantly at idle. Getting the roller up to speed every time it touches down is a bad thing. Don't thank me, the idea is pre-WW2. Why not now? It costs $8.00 on a production line that the stockholders don't get. I forgot what they were called (brain dead today)…...rev kit ?? Where a spring is on top of the lifter to help hold it against the cam. I saw that setup on a Pontiac Super Stock eng back around 1970. I saw one on a solid roller car some years back also. But I don't seem to see or hear much about people using them kits today as they seem like a good idea. Ron
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Re: Rocker ratio questions
[Re: fourgearsavoy]
#2594552
12/20/18 02:21 AM
12/20/18 02:21 AM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,207 New York
polyspheric
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,207
New York
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Yes, rev kit, Comp sells a weak spring specifically for this but you need a fixture to position the spring against the bottom of the head surface. It only adds about 30 lbs. to the tappet (but adds nothing to the valve side). OEM on the Chevy L6 pre-WW2.
Boffin Emeritus
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Re: Rocker ratio questions
[Re: mopardamo]
#2594581
12/20/18 04:41 AM
12/20/18 04:41 AM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,464 Sydney,Australia
tex013
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,464
Sydney,Australia
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Tex013 from what I see that is a metallurgical issue with the foundry. Yes the lifters would be like new. Maybe even help their life in certain situations. Oil pocket holes in the casting to provide some backup supply. Tex
New best ET 10.259@129.65 . New best MPH 130.32 Finally fitted a solid cam, stepped it up a bit more 3690lbs through the mufflers New World block 3780lbs 10.278@130.80 . Wowser 10.253@130.24 footbraking from 1500rpm Power by Tex's Automotive
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Re: Rocker ratio questions
[Re: fourgearsavoy]
#2594647
12/20/18 12:51 PM
12/20/18 12:51 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,013 South Park, Pa.
68LAR
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,013
South Park, Pa.
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Why not a solid roller, less weight and you can still do pushrod oiling...and the cost is not through the roof. Tim A solid roller doesn't like to idle,I guess not enough oil to the roller from what I've read. I was on the fence when I built this engine years ago roller or solid. From what I have researched the Hydraulic roller keeps constant pressure on the lobe instead of banging the roller every time the ramp comes with a solid roller. I could be wrong but this issue has been beat to death on many many forums. I think I may be going back to a flat solid just for the simple fact I have other uses for $1000 and I like the way a flat solid revs with a stick car. Now I have to pick a grind or have one custom ground Gus Gus, I wish I was smart enough to know how to post a picture of my cam card, but I'm not. Here are the specs of my cam. It is a Scott Brown custom grind that has worked and is still working for me after almost 9 years. SFT cam. LOBE .398/.395 LIFT .597/.593 with 1.5 rockers .633/.626 with 1.6 rockers DURATION 259/266 C/L 109 INSTALLED AT 105 SPRING PRESSURE 145/350 I use 1.6 stainless rockers I use Comp Cams spring 928. They have a seat of 135 and open at 375. Double spring with damper. This combo works very well for a street/strip heavy stick car. I also use Rotilla 15w40 oil, with STP.
4 speed street legal. Best time 10.99 @ 124 mph on 93 octane pump gas @ 3926# total weight
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Re: Rocker ratio questions
[Re: 68LAR]
#2594723
12/20/18 04:20 PM
12/20/18 04:20 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457 Washington
madscientist
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
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Why not a solid roller, less weight and you can still do pushrod oiling...and the cost is not through the roof. Tim A solid roller doesn't like to idle,I guess not enough oil to the roller from what I've read. I was on the fence when I built this engine years ago roller or solid. From what I have researched the Hydraulic roller keeps constant pressure on the lobe instead of banging the roller every time the ramp comes with a solid roller. I could be wrong but this issue has been beat to death on many many forums. I think I may be going back to a flat solid just for the simple fact I have other uses for $1000 and I like the way a flat solid revs with a stick car. Now I have to pick a grind or have one custom ground Gus Gus, I wish I was smart enough to know how to post a picture of my cam card, but I'm not. Here are the specs of my cam. It is a Scott Brown custom grind that has worked and is still working for me after almost 9 years. SFT cam. LOBE .398/.395 LIFT .597/.593 with 1.5 rockers .633/.626 with 1.6 rockers DURATION 259/266 C/L 109 INSTALLED AT 105 SPRING PRESSURE 145/350 I use 1.6 stainless rockers I use Comp Cams spring 928. They have a seat of 135 and open at 375. Double spring with damper. This combo works very well for a street/strip heavy stick car. I also use Rotilla 15w40 oil, with STP. That is almost my exact combination. Except I'm 105 on a 105 and my springs cam from Doug Herbert and mine don't have the dampener. What is your seat to seat timing if you don't mind????
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: Rocker ratio questions
[Re: madscientist]
#2594726
12/20/18 04:25 PM
12/20/18 04:25 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,013 South Park, Pa.
68LAR
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,013
South Park, Pa.
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Why not a solid roller, less weight and you can still do pushrod oiling...and the cost is not through the roof. Tim A solid roller doesn't like to idle,I guess not enough oil to the roller from what I've read. I was on the fence when I built this engine years ago roller or solid. From what I have researched the Hydraulic roller keeps constant pressure on the lobe instead of banging the roller every time the ramp comes with a solid roller. I could be wrong but this issue has been beat to death on many many forums. I think I may be going back to a flat solid just for the simple fact I have other uses for $1000 and I like the way a flat solid revs with a stick car. Now I have to pick a grind or have one custom ground Gus Gus, I wish I was smart enough to know how to post a picture of my cam card, but I'm not. Here are the specs of my cam. It is a Scott Brown custom grind that has worked and is still working for me after almost 9 years. SFT cam. LOBE .398/.395 LIFT .597/.593 with 1.5 rockers .633/.626 with 1.6 rockers DURATION 259/266 C/L 109 INSTALLED AT 105 SPRING PRESSURE 145/350 I use 1.6 stainless rockers I use Comp Cams spring 928. They have a seat of 135 and open at 375. Double spring with damper. This combo works very well for a street/strip heavy stick car. I also use Rotilla 15w40 oil, with STP. That is almost my exact combination. Except I'm 105 on a 105 and my springs cam from Doug Herbert and mine don't have the dampener. What is your seat to seat timing if you don't mind???? I really don't know. I do know that this combo is working fine for the way I drive my car.
4 speed street legal. Best time 10.99 @ 124 mph on 93 octane pump gas @ 3926# total weight
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Re: Rocker ratio questions
[Re: fourgearsavoy]
#2594831
12/20/18 10:11 PM
12/20/18 10:11 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,504 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,504
So. Burlington, Vt.
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His current cam is 264/270-108....... so he should be used to how that’s going to behave by now.
That Howard’s cam uses faster lobes, so it might be a touch rowdier.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Rocker ratio questions
[Re: fourgearsavoy]
#2594912
12/21/18 01:51 AM
12/21/18 01:51 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,013 South Park, Pa.
68LAR
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,013
South Park, Pa.
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Gus, With your car being a good 300 pounds lighter than mine, that cam may work well. I personally would look for a cam that has a power band around 3500-7000 or so. But that's just me. We all have our preferences. Like my post about 10 second street/strip cars. Lot's of different combos that seem to be working. Why have a cam that will go to 7600 rpm that your engine will never see? Combo, combo.. If I can offer any suggestions, please feel free to PM me.
Last edited by 68LAR; 12/21/18 01:55 AM.
4 speed street legal. Best time 10.99 @ 124 mph on 93 octane pump gas @ 3926# total weight
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Re: Rocker ratio questions
[Re: 68LAR]
#2594950
12/21/18 07:05 AM
12/21/18 07:05 AM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,464 Sydney,Australia
tex013
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,464
Sydney,Australia
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Gus, With your car being a good 300 pounds lighter than mine, that cam may work well. I personally would look for a cam that has a power band around 3500-7000 or so. But that's just me. We all have our preferences. Like my post about 10 second street/strip cars. Lot's of different combos that seem to be working. Why have a cam that will go to 7600 rpm that your engine will never see? Combo, combo.. If I can offer any suggestions, please feel free to PM me. I remember when choosing the cam for my 505 i think Hughes noted go about 2 cam sizes over what you would choose for a 440 . I have 258@050 in the 440 i went 272@050 in the 505 . Both have a softer/slower ramp , definately softer than a Howards grind Cam choice is like choosing beer , each to their own . But to initial question i like stock ratio with appropriate cam speced Tex
New best ET 10.259@129.65 . New best MPH 130.32 Finally fitted a solid cam, stepped it up a bit more 3690lbs through the mufflers New World block 3780lbs 10.278@130.80 . Wowser 10.253@130.24 footbraking from 1500rpm Power by Tex's Automotive
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Re: Rocker ratio questions
[Re: fourgearsavoy]
#2595021
12/21/18 12:48 PM
12/21/18 12:48 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,504 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,504
So. Burlington, Vt.
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From what I’ve seen..... with stick cars in particular....... is that “usually”a cam that’s a bit too small will run quicker than one that’s a bit too big.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Rocker ratio questions
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2595029
12/21/18 01:04 PM
12/21/18 01:04 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,013 South Park, Pa.
68LAR
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,013
South Park, Pa.
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From what I’ve seen..... with stick cars in particular....... is that “usually”a cam that’s a bit too small will run quicker than one that’s a bit too big. This is what Scott Brown told me. I was running a MP590 prior. My car picked up a bunch after the Scotty cam was installed. Heavy stick cars are a different breed from auto cars. No insult intended. Just stating what I've heard and learned. Also, with my combo, I went to the 1.6 rockers and picked up a bit more. I run the 1.6's on both valves.
4 speed street legal. Best time 10.99 @ 124 mph on 93 octane pump gas @ 3926# total weight
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Re: Rocker ratio questions
[Re: 68LAR]
#2595250
12/21/18 10:21 PM
12/21/18 10:21 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,555 Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy
OP
I Live Here
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OP
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Rittman Ohio
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This is the hydraulic roller I was looking at With Comp's Hydraulic Roller Retrofit camshafts, you can get all the benefits of the increased power which comes from a roller cam with the low maintenance of a regular hydraulic. Plus, there's no worries of the cam going flat, having to do the correct "break in" process, etc. After helping customers through dozens and dozens of builds, we found that Comp's largest off the shelf Hydraulic Roller just wasn't big enough for the 500 inch and larger engines running a good flowing (325+ CFM) head such as our CNC Stealth heads. We had many customers who had Comp custom grind them this particular cam, and it worked so well that we decided to offer it as an "off the shelf custom," keeping them in stock at all times for our customers. The .571" lift and 252 intake and 258 exhaust duration at .050" really lets the more serious builds reach their potential, while still having enough low end for some street use. These are ground on a 110 degree lobe separation angle. We'd use about a 3500 stall, and some decent rear end gears (3.55-4.10 for the street,) and a minimum of 10:1 compression. With this setup, we recommend our 145-1008 Hydraulic roller lifters, our 145-1014 springs, our 145-1003 retainers, and our 145-1002 locks (if you are using valves with 11/32" stems.) Also, this cam uses three bolt timing chain sets. We carry them (along with the required bolts, etc.) on our timing chains page. And, since this is Comp we're talking about, you can be assured of two things: The product is 100% made in the USA, and the quality is second to none. If you're planning on using this cam, give us a quick call so we can go over your build and make sure everything sounds correct before you pull the trigger. It's a custom deal ground for 440 Source and it looks like a decent cam. Gus
64 Plymouth Savoy 493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow 5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box Dana 60
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Re: Rocker ratio questions
[Re: AndyF]
#2595260
12/21/18 10:45 PM
12/21/18 10:45 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421 Balt. Md
383man
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
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264/272 at 050 is going to be pretty rowdy on the street in a pump gas 500 inch engine. You can make it work with a low restriction exhaust and careful carb/ignition tuning but you'll definitely hear it coming. My cam from Dwayne is 264 & 270 @ .050 with .585 & .592 lift on a 110 LSA. I have it in the eng on the recommended 106 ICL. If you watch the video when they go to the back of my car you can hear how it idles pretty good but I did have it idling a bit high in the video. But the cam works great in my 493 driving on the street. It actually sounds a bit milder to me then I thought it would but I love it. Ron https://www.facebook.com/moparmusclemag/videos/10155914655157792/
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Re: Rocker ratio questions
[Re: fourgearsavoy]
#2595265
12/21/18 10:52 PM
12/21/18 10:52 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,504 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,504
So. Burlington, Vt.
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when they go to the back of my car you can hear how it idles pretty good Baddest cam at the drive in Love the sound of that motor.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Rocker ratio questions
[Re: fourgearsavoy]
#2595266
12/21/18 10:54 PM
12/21/18 10:54 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,207 New York
polyspheric
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,207
New York
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Comp's largest off the shelf Hydraulic Roller just wasn't big enough for the 500 inch and larger engines? Tighten the LSA to 104.
Boffin Emeritus
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Re: Rocker ratio questions
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2595269
12/21/18 11:00 PM
12/21/18 11:00 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421 Balt. Md
383man
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
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when they go to the back of my car you can hear how it idles pretty good Baddest cam at the drive in Love the sound of that motor. Me too thanks to you. Thanks Dwayne , Ron
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Re: Rocker ratio questions
[Re: fourgearsavoy]
#2595284
12/21/18 11:25 PM
12/21/18 11:25 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,864 Pattison Texas
CSK
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,864
Pattison Texas
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My cam is very close to that comp cam [video:youtube] https://youtu.be/c4jgbv98adY[/video]
1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI 512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim 2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5
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Re: Rocker ratio questions
[Re: GY3]
#2595714
12/23/18 09:20 AM
12/23/18 09:20 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421 Balt. Md
383man
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
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Since we are doing videos... This was before mufflers, drag radials and I had the rev limiter set way low at 5500(?) as I recall. https://youtu.be/FcKEEDBRwno I only posted mine because my cams duration at .050 is very close to the 264 & 272 Andy was talking about. But I enjoyed yours and csk's video's also. Thnaks for posting them, Ron
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Re: Rocker ratio questions
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2595715
12/23/18 09:23 AM
12/23/18 09:23 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421 Balt. Md
383man
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
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when they go to the back of my car you can hear how it idles pretty good Baddest cam at the drive in Love the sound of that motor. I knew the 'Drive In" reminded me of something as it was the GTO commercial around 1970 about the GTO called the "Humbler". I now remember the commercial with the Humbler GTO cruising through the drive-in and hearing the exh right at the exh tips. You have a good memory Dwayne. Ron
Last edited by 383man; 12/23/18 09:23 AM.
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Re: Rocker ratio questions
[Re: 383man]
#2597789
12/27/18 10:50 PM
12/27/18 10:50 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,555 Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy
OP
I Live Here
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OP
I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,555
Rittman Ohio
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Well I'm looking at another Howards cam 260/268 duration and 555/574 lift with 108 separation. The lift seems a little low but the duration is where I think would work with my car. Gus
64 Plymouth Savoy 493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow 5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box Dana 60
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Re: Rocker ratio questions
[Re: fourgearsavoy]
#2597881
12/28/18 03:59 AM
12/28/18 03:59 AM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,464 Sydney,Australia
tex013
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,464
Sydney,Australia
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Gus , no thought on getting a custom grind ?
Tex
New best ET 10.259@129.65 . New best MPH 130.32 Finally fitted a solid cam, stepped it up a bit more 3690lbs through the mufflers New World block 3780lbs 10.278@130.80 . Wowser 10.253@130.24 footbraking from 1500rpm Power by Tex's Automotive
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Re: Rocker ratio questions
[Re: fourgearsavoy]
#2597979
12/28/18 02:22 PM
12/28/18 02:22 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,013 South Park, Pa.
68LAR
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,013
South Park, Pa.
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Well I'm looking at another Howards cam 260/268 duration and 555/574 lift with 108 separation. The lift seems a little low but the duration is where I think would work with my car. Gus Close to the 259/266 that mine is, but with less lift and 1* less C/L. open -------- close int.24.5 BTDC 54.5 ABDC ext.66 BTDC 20 ATDC These are the valve events of my cam. With this, my power band is 3200-7200. Torq comes in around 4300. My 2 step is usually set between 4600-5200.
Last edited by 68LAR; 12/28/18 02:27 PM.
4 speed street legal. Best time 10.99 @ 124 mph on 93 octane pump gas @ 3926# total weight
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Re: Rocker ratio questions
[Re: 68LAR]
#2597994
12/28/18 02:52 PM
12/28/18 02:52 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,013 South Park, Pa.
68LAR
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,013
South Park, Pa.
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Well I'm looking at another Howards cam 260/268 duration and 555/574 lift with 108 separation. The lift seems a little low but the duration is where I think would work with my car. Gus Close to the 259/266 that mine is, but with less lift and 1* less C/L. open -------- close int.24.5 BTDC 54.5 ABDC ext.66 BTDC 20 ATDC These are the valve events of my cam. With this, my power band is 3200-7200. Torq comes in around 4300. My 2 step is usually set between 4600-5200. Gus, It seems you are liking Howards cams. See if this one fits? part number 721602-08. 260/260 .616/.616 lift on a 108 c/l. power 35-7200 rpm.
Last edited by 68LAR; 12/28/18 02:52 PM.
4 speed street legal. Best time 10.99 @ 124 mph on 93 octane pump gas @ 3926# total weight
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Re: Rocker ratio questions
[Re: 68LAR]
#2598163
12/28/18 10:07 PM
12/28/18 10:07 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,555 Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy
OP
I Live Here
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OP
I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,555
Rittman Ohio
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Well I pulled the trigger and ordered Howard's flat cam 260/264 616/620 108 LS and I think I will like it. Also ordered the Direct Lube lifters and some Max ZPM break in lube. All in for $323.48 Still looking at springs,bee-hive maybe Gus
64 Plymouth Savoy 493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow 5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box Dana 60
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Re: Rocker ratio questions
[Re: fourgearsavoy]
#2598167
12/28/18 10:18 PM
12/28/18 10:18 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,464 Sydney,Australia
tex013
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,464
Sydney,Australia
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Well I pulled the trigger and ordered Howard's flat cam 260/264 616/620 108 LS and I think I will like it. Also ordered the Direct Lube lifters and some Max ZPM break in lube. All in for $323.48 Still looking at springs,bee-hive maybe Gus Tex
New best ET 10.259@129.65 . New best MPH 130.32 Finally fitted a solid cam, stepped it up a bit more 3690lbs through the mufflers New World block 3780lbs 10.278@130.80 . Wowser 10.253@130.24 footbraking from 1500rpm Power by Tex's Automotive
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Re: Rocker ratio questions
[Re: fourgearsavoy]
#2598168
12/28/18 10:31 PM
12/28/18 10:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
Taking time off to work on my car
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Taking time off to work on my car
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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Well I pulled the trigger and ordered Howard's flat cam 260/264 616/620 108 LS and I think I will like it. Also ordered the Direct Lube lifters and some Max ZPM break in lube. All in for $323.48 Still looking at springs,bee-hive maybe Gus Why so small? I run bigger in my 440.
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Re: Rocker ratio questions
[Re: fourgearsavoy]
#2598231
12/29/18 02:11 AM
12/29/18 02:11 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,214 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,214
Bend,OR USA
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Well I pulled the trigger and ordered Howard's flat cam 260/264 616/620 108 LS and I think I will like it. Also ordered the Direct Lube lifters and some Max ZPM break in lube. All in for $323.48 Gus I like your choice on that cam Where will you install the intake lobes?
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Rocker ratio questions
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2598355
12/29/18 01:38 PM
12/29/18 01:38 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,013 South Park, Pa.
68LAR
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,013
South Park, Pa.
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Well I pulled the trigger and ordered Howard's flat cam 260/264 616/620 108 LS and I think I will like it. Also ordered the Direct Lube lifters and some Max ZPM break in lube. All in for $323.48 Gus I like your choice on that cam Where will you install the intake lobes? I like that choice also. I think it will work out real well for you.
4 speed street legal. Best time 10.99 @ 124 mph on 93 octane pump gas @ 3926# total weight
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