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Re: Roll Cage requirements
[Re: Biginchmopar]
#2590417
12/11/18 03:34 PM
12/11/18 03:34 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,530
Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
Mr. Helpful
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Mr. Helpful
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,530
Fulton County, PA
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8.50 to 7.50 unibody with stock floor/firewall goes from a simple sportsman cert to the SFI 25.5D for 3600# max. Funny car cage, additional tubing in the floor and some things installed differently. Depending on how they were built, I've seen 8.50 cars that needed to be torn apart and redone to get them right for the 25.5. Wasn't as simple as adding bars. On a car going into the 8s, I would go on and make it legal for 25.5.
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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Re: Roll Cage requirements
[Re: Biginchmopar]
#2590984
12/12/18 07:01 PM
12/12/18 07:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,563
Motor City
6PKRTSE
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,563
Motor City
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We went with a C.M. 25.5 cage in my Challenger the first time we did the cage in it. Better safe than sorry. Easier to do all at once then go back over & over & keep adding to it.
1963 Belvedere 440 Max Wedge Tribute
1970 Charger R/T S.E. 440 Six Pack
1970 Challenger R/T, 528 Hemi
1970 Charger 500 S.E. 440 4 BBL
1970 Plymouth Road Runner 383
1974 Chrysler New Yorker 440
1996 2500 RAM 488 V-10 4X4
2004 3500 Dually Cummins 4x4
2012 Challenger R/T Classic.
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Re: Roll Cage requirements
[Re: merpar]
#2591299
12/13/18 01:51 PM
12/13/18 01:51 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,042
Shelby Twp. Mi
HardcoreB
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,042
Shelby Twp. Mi
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Hey, Big Inch. Just put as much crome moly tubing in there as you can. Then get a gallon of Goriila glue to hold it together. Then you're good to go! Some more sound advice from your uncle. Not to go against the grain of what you're saying but professionals like Bill Lutz are using RTV now-a-days.
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Re: Roll Cage requirements
[Re: HardcoreB]
#2591303
12/13/18 02:01 PM
12/13/18 02:01 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,159
PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,159
PA.
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Hey, Big Inch. Just put as much crome moly tubing in there as you can. Then get a gallon of Goriila glue to hold it together. Then you're good to go! Some more sound advice from your uncle. Not to go against the grain of what you're saying but professionals like Bill Lutz are using RTV now-a-days. I see what you did there. LOL
1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: Roll Cage requirements
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#2591305
12/13/18 02:05 PM
12/13/18 02:05 PM
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,036
bean town ....Ca
WHITEDART
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,036
bean town ....Ca
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Hey, Big Inch. Just put as much crome moly tubing in there as you can. Then get a gallon of Goriila glue to hold it together. Then you're good to go! Some more sound advice from your uncle. Not to go against the grain of what you're saying but professionals like Bill Lutz are using RTV now-a-days. I see what you did there. LOL obviously none of you guys have a clue to what you were talking about all the high in chassis shops now are gluing the cage together with Flex Seal. I guess the benefit is you do not need a grinder to touch up the glue
In the 8s N/A.with Brett miller W8's
5.07 at 133 at 2700lb
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Re: Roll Cage requirements
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2591307
12/13/18 02:07 PM
12/13/18 02:07 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,159
PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,159
PA.
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Funny car type cage is required to go from the 8.50 certs to 7.50. My C.M. tube chassis Cuda needs that done to go faster next year, hopefully  It was built a lot of years ago and the funny car cage wasn't required back then, it is now  I'm betting that your car will need more updating than you think IF and I said IF the inspector checks under your car. A lot of inspectors don't but my car was on a rack at the time and it needed 6 bars added because of rule changes over the years when I updated my mild steel Daytona from 8.50 to 7.50. And my Daytona already had a funny car type of cage.
1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: Roll Cage requirements
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#2591321
12/13/18 02:43 PM
12/13/18 02:43 PM
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,036
bean town ....Ca
WHITEDART
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,036
bean town ....Ca
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Actually I have been watching this post closely I have been avoiding the chassis update on my car for multiple reasons.. I have been lucky most of the racing that we do is 1/8th mile racing on quarter mile tracks.. usually we don't draw too much attention that way
In the 8s N/A.with Brett miller W8's
5.07 at 133 at 2700lb
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Re: Roll Cage requirements
[Re: WHITEDART]
#2591326
12/13/18 02:54 PM
12/13/18 02:54 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,159
PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,159
PA.
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Actually I have been watching this post closely I have been avoiding the chassis update on my car for multiple reasons.. I have been lucky most of the racing that we do is 1/8th mile racing on quarter mile tracks.. usually we don't draw too much attention that way I write my racing off as a business so licencing, physicals, spot rentals, chassis tech, etc, etc, just kinda plays into it.
1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: Roll Cage requirements
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#2591365
12/13/18 04:22 PM
12/13/18 04:22 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,126
Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,126
Bend,OR USA
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Funny car type cage is required to go from the 8.50 certs to 7.50. My C.M. tube chassis Cuda needs that done to go faster next year, hopefully It was built a lot of years ago and the funny car cage wasn't required back then, it is now I'm betting that your car will need more updating than you think IF and I said IF the inspector checks under your car. A lot of inspectors don't but my car was on a rack at the time and it needed 6 bars added because of rule changes over the years when I updated my mild steel Daytona from 8.50 to 7.50. And my Daytona already had a funny car type of cage. According to the first NHRA inspector that looked at my car when I had it certified the first time for me here in division 6 said it all it needed was the funny car cage to be certed to 7.50 due to the amount of bars in the chassis under the floorboards, 6 from the rear suspension to the foot bar  This car has gone 6.80s at around 184 MPH before I bought it less engine, it had a blown B1 KB motor on Methanol back then. It sat for 6 yrs. before I got it 5 yrs ago Hopefully the new, better bigger C.I., better headed motor will run 8.80 or quicker at 150+ MPH
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 12/13/18 04:23 PM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Roll Cage requirements
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2591375
12/13/18 04:29 PM
12/13/18 04:29 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,159
PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,159
PA.
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My blue Duster was built for 6.50 cert but being they are only good for two years instead of three I will have it stickered for 7.50 cert. that will easily cover my ET.
1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: Roll Cage requirements
[Re: Biginchmopar]
#2591409
12/13/18 05:31 PM
12/13/18 05:31 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,397
Carson City, Nevada
Biginchmopar
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,397
Carson City, Nevada
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I have a Duster with a 6.0 cert and I don't want that many bars in a car that is uncut. I understand if that's what it takes, that's what it takes. The cage would add enough weight that I wouldn't have to worry about low 8's unless I spray some juice to it. I was told just add a funny car cage and if that was all that was needed I could do that without adding a lot of weight. Anyways thanks for the input! I'm off to buy Gorilla Glue, RTV and Flex Seal.  
Last edited by Biginchmopar; 12/14/18 02:47 PM.
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Re: Roll Cage requirements
[Re: Biginchmopar]
#2591410
12/13/18 05:33 PM
12/13/18 05:33 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,361
Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,361
Las Vegas
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FC cage and a few bars on/under/above floor will cover it generally.
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: Roll Cage requirements
[Re: Al_Alguire]
#2591809
12/14/18 01:47 PM
12/14/18 01:47 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,563
Motor City
6PKRTSE
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,563
Motor City
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FC cage and a few bars on/under/above floor will cover it generally. I was surprised each time i have re-certed my car how the NHRA inspector go/no go gages each bar, sonic checks each bar even the under car bars. I was a little nervous when he stood up aftwer inspecting underneath & asked what chassis shop built this car? I said "my buddies & I did, it's home built" & he said "it is one bad ass m.f'er & I am a Chevy guy". Made me feel pretty good for a guy that inspects thousands of cars a year to compliment mine.
1963 Belvedere 440 Max Wedge Tribute
1970 Charger R/T S.E. 440 Six Pack
1970 Challenger R/T, 528 Hemi
1970 Charger 500 S.E. 440 4 BBL
1970 Plymouth Road Runner 383
1974 Chrysler New Yorker 440
1996 2500 RAM 488 V-10 4X4
2004 3500 Dually Cummins 4x4
2012 Challenger R/T Classic.
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Re: Roll Cage requirements
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#2591819
12/14/18 01:54 PM
12/14/18 01:54 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,563
Motor City
6PKRTSE
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,563
Motor City
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Hey, Big Inch. Just put as much crome moly tubing in there as you can. Then get a gallon of Goriila glue to hold it together. Then you're good to go! Some more sound advice from your uncle. Not to go against the grain of what you're saying but professionals like Bill Lutz are using RTV now-a-days. I see what you did there. LOL You guys joke but I know of one of our local No E.T./Grudge cars that the track officials finally told our buddy with a sleeper 10.5" tire Mustang with no cage & factory lap bet, we know how fast you are going & we would appreciate it if you put a cage in the car. He did, it is all glued together plastic PVC with some roll bar padding on the door bar & head bars to look the part. The officials never said anything again. It is funny watching him climb over the door bar & it flexes as he gets in & out. Not for me though. I would rather be safe.
1963 Belvedere 440 Max Wedge Tribute
1970 Charger R/T S.E. 440 Six Pack
1970 Challenger R/T, 528 Hemi
1970 Charger 500 S.E. 440 4 BBL
1970 Plymouth Road Runner 383
1974 Chrysler New Yorker 440
1996 2500 RAM 488 V-10 4X4
2004 3500 Dually Cummins 4x4
2012 Challenger R/T Classic.
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Re: Roll Cage requirements
[Re: 6PKRTSE]
#2591859
12/14/18 02:41 PM
12/14/18 02:41 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,021
MN
JERICOGTX
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,021
MN
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Hey, Big Inch. Just put as much crome moly tubing in there as you can. Then get a gallon of Goriila glue to hold it together. Then you're good to go! Some more sound advice from your uncle. Not to go against the grain of what you're saying but professionals like Bill Lutz are using RTV now-a-days. I see what you did there. LOL You guys joke but I know of one of our local No E.T./Grudge cars that the track officials finally told our buddy with a sleeper 10.5" tire Mustang with no cage & factory lap bet, we know how fast you are going & we would appreciate it if you put a cage in the car. He did, it is all glued together plastic PVC with some roll bar padding on the door bar & head bars to look the part. The officials never said anything again. It is funny watching him climb over the door bar & it flexes as he gets in & out. Not for me though. I would rather be safe. Not sure why people skimp on safety.
69 GTX
68 Road Runner
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Re: Roll Cage requirements
[Re: 6PKRTSE]
#2591930
12/14/18 05:01 PM
12/14/18 05:01 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,530
Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
Mr. Helpful
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Mr. Helpful
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,530
Fulton County, PA
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You guys joke but I know of one of our local No E.T./Grudge cars that the track officials finally told our buddy with a sleeper 10.5" tire Mustang with no cage & factory lap bet, we know how fast you are going & we would appreciate it if you put a cage in the car. He did, it is all glued together plastic PVC with some roll bar padding on the door bar & head bars to look the part. The officials never said anything again. It is funny watching him climb over the door bar & it flexes as he gets in & out. Not for me though. I would rather be safe.
B1^@h about NHRA all you like, seat belt rules, chassis certs, all of it. But this kind of stupid s#1^ doesn't happen at divisionals or national events. If a guy is that stupid to go down the track in junk like that, I don't want to be beside him. I've seen too many junk cars wadded up and too many people hurt.
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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Re: Roll Cage requirements
[Re: Al_Alguire]
#2591939
12/14/18 05:11 PM
12/14/18 05:11 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,397
Carson City, Nevada
Biginchmopar
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,397
Carson City, Nevada
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FC cage and a few bars on/under/above floor will cover it generally. Al, do you know what SFI spec it would be? Stock firewall, stock floor, ect...
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Re: Roll Cage requirements
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2591949
12/14/18 05:34 PM
12/14/18 05:34 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,563
Motor City
6PKRTSE
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,563
Motor City
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[quote=pittsburghracer][quote=HardcoreB][quote=merpar]
You guys joke but I know of one of our local No E.T./Grudge cars that the track officials finally told our buddy with a sleeper 10.5" tire Mustang with no cage & factory lap bet, we know how fast you are going & we would appreciate it if you put a cage in the car. He did, it is all glued together plastic PVC with some roll bar padding on the door bar & head bars to look the part. The officials never said anything again. It is funny watching him climb over the door bar & it flexes as he gets in & out.
Not for me though. I would rather be safe.
  You can talk to people, that doesn't mean they will listen  As far as that racer I hope he doesn't crash that car and die from the plastic tube breaking and penetrating his body I agree. Like I said not for me. He has lost his brakes before & went off the end of the track into the sand. Doesn't seem to bother him at all. I went all out for safety & this is still a street car.
1963 Belvedere 440 Max Wedge Tribute
1970 Charger R/T S.E. 440 Six Pack
1970 Challenger R/T, 528 Hemi
1970 Charger 500 S.E. 440 4 BBL
1970 Plymouth Road Runner 383
1974 Chrysler New Yorker 440
1996 2500 RAM 488 V-10 4X4
2004 3500 Dually Cummins 4x4
2012 Challenger R/T Classic.
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Re: Roll Cage requirements
[Re: Biginchmopar]
#2591953
12/14/18 05:38 PM
12/14/18 05:38 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,206
New York
polyspheric
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,206
New York
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The officials never said anything again.
Personal injury lawyers get rich on that sort of thing.
My question: how many rich & famous are getting a pass, and everyone was smart enough NOT to tell? See, if someone can go to jail for what they allowed, the chances of them erasing a tape or losing a test report go from zero to 100 in no seconds.
Corruption and privilege always found together.
Boffin Emeritus
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Re: Roll Cage requirements
[Re: polyspheric]
#2591963
12/14/18 05:56 PM
12/14/18 05:56 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,563
Motor City
6PKRTSE
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,563
Motor City
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The officials never said anything again.
Personal injury lawyers get rich on that sort of thing.
My question: how many rich & famous are getting a pass, and everyone was smart enough NOT to tell? See, if someone can go to jail for what they allowed, the chances of them erasing a tape or losing a test report go from zero to 100 in no seconds.
Corruption and privilege always found together. It's on No E.T./Grudge nights. There is no tech what-so-ever. Whatever you show up in you can race. As always racer sign the waiver upon entering the track so they are on there own. Every car there is faster than it looks. At least it is only 1/8 mile these days so not as bad as it was a few years ago but even with that I know of a few sub 1.0 sec 60' 10.5" tire cars going up to & over 200+ in the 1/8.(at least these guys have cages).
1963 Belvedere 440 Max Wedge Tribute
1970 Charger R/T S.E. 440 Six Pack
1970 Challenger R/T, 528 Hemi
1970 Charger 500 S.E. 440 4 BBL
1970 Plymouth Road Runner 383
1974 Chrysler New Yorker 440
1996 2500 RAM 488 V-10 4X4
2004 3500 Dually Cummins 4x4
2012 Challenger R/T Classic.
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Re: Roll Cage requirements
[Re: Biginchmopar]
#2591987
12/14/18 07:02 PM
12/14/18 07:02 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 916
SE Washington
Forest
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 916
SE Washington
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FC cage and a few bars on/under/above floor will cover it generally. Al, do you know what SFI spec it would be? Stock firewall, stock floor, ect... 25.5 is 7.50 and slower with stock floors and firewall...
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Re: Roll Cage requirements
[Re: Biginchmopar]
#2592053
12/14/18 08:49 PM
12/14/18 08:49 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,361
Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,361
Las Vegas
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Yep 25.5 for Moly or 25.4 for Mild..I think .4 is up to C and .5 is up to the D version these days.
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: Roll Cage requirements
[Re: Biginchmopar]
#2592307
12/15/18 01:45 PM
12/15/18 01:45 PM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,257
gulfport, ms, west mi
rowin4
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,257
gulfport, ms, west mi
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I know a guy that made his roll bar set up out of exhaust pipe. He did a real good job, tig welded also. From just looking at it you couldn't tell it wasn't legal. Well he lost control and rolled it . What a surprise that he put in a legal cage in the next car. By trying to fool the tech guy , your only signing your death certificate.
it's ok to butt heads, just don't do it with a butthead
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Re: Roll Cage requirements
[Re: rowin4]
#2592314
12/15/18 02:05 PM
12/15/18 02:05 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,355
north of coder
moparx
"Butt Crack Bob"
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"Butt Crack Bob"
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,355
north of coder
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around 62-63 there was a section of the interstate here that wasn't finished, so many "used" that section, "wink,wink". one local guy had a slingshot style dragster made entirely of "muffler moly" he ran there. was fairly fast, although the exact times and speeds at legitimate tracks has been lost to father time. you're mention of exhaust tubing cages reminded me of that car.
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