Hi all, this is Brandon from 440 Source. Many people have probably seen some headlines about the tariffs, but so far maybe haven't been impacted by them. Here's the deal: The harmonized codes which cover all categories of imported engine parts which we carry fall under the new tariffs. As of Sept 24th (currently in force) everything is subject to a 10% tariff. We have already received increases of 10% from many of our suppliers (including rods from Scat, etc). As of Jan 1st 2019, that will increase to 25%.

Do the simple math, and a 25% increase on a $2,249 stroker kit brings it up to $2,811.

Unfortunately, this is not going to "push" people into American made components as it was possibly intended to do, because, as any experienced engine builder knows, true American made cranks are $3,000+ (Bryant, etc) just for the crank, and $1,800+ for the rods (Crower, Carillo, etc) making a stroker kit with "truly" US made parts in the 5K range. So people arent' going to switch to a $5,000 US made kit because of the tariffs, they are just going to have a pay quite a bit more for the same "affordable" parts we've been able to buy for decades without paying an additional 25% to the government.

And, keep in mind, every company pays these tariffs. Scat, Eagle, K1, whatever. If it's imported, (and if it's at these lower price levels we are talking about, no matter what someone tells you, it IS imported), you are about to see HUGE increases across the board from EVERY manufacturer.

So you might want to think about doing that build sooner rather than later.

I admit I did factor this disaster into decisions made on recent purchases.

Brandon, can you explain how the tariffs impact your stuff?

There was a thread recently about this and people seem to think it works like this.
There is X amount of cost of metals in a crankshaft, therefore the tariff increase is X times 25% (starting Jan 2019). Is that how it works?
or will it be your full cost of the crankshaft times 25% ???

Thanks!!

It's on the full cost of the items. However, we have been dealing with huge increases in all of our USA made items over the last year or so also, since the tariffs on steel and aluminum came out. About 50% of the parts we offer on our web store are made in the USA.

When the metal tariffs came out, there was a mad run on all the stock left at the raw material houses, since everyone knew huge increases were coming. Many sizes of steel you couldn't even get, and others saw increases of 50% or more if you were even able to buy them. So, many of our US made parts have had huge increases as well. We've offset some of these price increases by trying to order as much quantity as possible, but even this has hardly helped.

US made parts (even though they are made in the US) are almost always made with imported steel, because steel that is actually still made in US foundries is much more expensive. Generally that is reserved for government and military projects that specify the steel used must be of US origin and also where cost is a secondary consideration. So again, the tariffs did not push anyone into "switching" to US made products, they just diverted huge additional amounts of money from individuals and private industry to the government.

Tick tock... tick tock...

This wasn’t meant to be political. The big increases coming are a real thing and people should be aware of it.

well, i'll keep my tax break.
But there is the law of supply and demand. People stop buying for a bit, the price will come down. Its interesting to note that we received a note from a supplier that they will be eating the tariff rather than passing it along.

Should be interesting to see what happens to
Reproduction/Restoration sheetmetal...

Try your best EVERYONE to NOT let this become a political discussion..

That being said I buy American whenever its possible, all of my engines are full of American made products, yep its costs more but I prefer to support the USA over....

Those tarrifs are extremely unlikely to remain in effect forever. At some point China will come to the table. They sell us way more stuff than we sell them.
I see already soy beans are way up in value( they are paying more) because South American suppliers are unable to meet Chinese demands.
This stuff was punted and should have been dealt with 30-40 years ago

Thanks for trying to warn us about upcoming price increases. Some will believe you others will blame you.

I know a manager at a large US international equipment co that says the quotes for steel are coming in at way over the 25% tariff. Pure price gouging and blaming it on the tariff.

Surprise anyone really?

Hind sight has always been better, especially in government and in some business decisions

I'm more concerned that the price of Beer might go up.

Guess you'll just have to switch from Tsing Tao beer then

Actually that's good beer.

I agree. Twisting chinese arms to get them back to the table. I understand the chinese are in a 1927 us economy right now. Their not happy right now and will be back to deal imo. I just hope that all these businesses that are raising prices because of higher tariffs also lower their prices accordingly after china comes back and a better deal is made.

Thanks for the heads up, Brandon. Racing has never been cheap. Mopars have never been cheap. But us, faithful dogs, will still keep building what we can, when we can.

Our hobby, even the cheap Chinese kits are still a luxury item, not a necessity in life.

Many can still make old junk run well.

So its hard to feel for anyone who cant make the gap on a luxury item.

Look how much we already get bent over on prices vs the bowtie boys, it is what it is.

Many places are eating the tariff. The margin on the Chinese stuff is huge. A close friend does just that kind of sourcing.
But regardless of the business decisions of the marketer - if $550 is going to derail the build you shouldn't be doing it anyway.

Maybe cranks/rods SHOULD cost $3k/$1800?

These tarrifs are for long term economic succes with the hopes that the gap between outsourced and American made products will shrink. Hopefully this causes more American demand because costs will be closer, prompting new domestic suppliers and more competition for business.

My question is, if a importer buys a widget for $100 and pay 10% which is $110 and they sell in the USA for $400 how come I got to pay 10% of the retail which would total $440. If importer would only charge $410 that would only be a 2.5% increase.

We will all pay no matter what side of the North American boarders you live on. We will pay this new tax and both the USA and Canadian Governments are the ones that are making a lot of money. I saw just how much the Canadian Government is making and I did make me wonder just were all this money is going. Sure not going to the every day worker in both countries so we hobbyist can afford to continue in this hobby without emptying ones bank account. This looks like just another nail in our hobby that is running out of new people to come in and continue it along. Nice to have a supplier come on here and voice his knowledge of the industry and explain to the hobby what is going on with the prices in the future.

Glad my heads showed up the other day :-)

Funny this has came up ,just talking to my engine builder about a new build and he said good luck on finding a crank didn't go into details. Don't no if he means just Chryslers or cranks in general .

Silly man, stop looking behind the curtain.

you're kidding right ? when has this happened in you're lifetime ?

This very thing is something I am considering too, one of the first things that occurred to me in terms of an immediate personal effect. I do think there might be a short term spike in people purchasing parts a little sooner to beat the tariffs followed by a drop off similar to a cliff after the beginning in the new year(or whenever it kicks in).

I think the people who are saying the tariff should not be marked up by the supplier are missing a fundamental point. Let us use the example of the mythical part mentioned that costs the supplier 1500 to have it landed in their warehouse. Some of that 1500 is amortizing the engineering costs to design the part. Some of that 1500 is the manufacturing labour. Some of that 1500 is the raw materials. Some of that 1500 is the packaging and handling. Some of that is the ocean and land shipping to get it to the warehouse where hopefully somebody will buy that part at your let's say 25% markup. We will use that number as it is the same as the tariff. The person selling the part does not see their 1500 + 375 = 1875 until the part is sold. That means that 1500 that is tied up in that part can not be used to develop new parts until it is freed up by someone buying that part. Now, the 25% tariff is added on to that part when it arrives into the US. It is not a sales tax added on to the part when it is sold to the consumer. That means the cost to the supplier is now 1875 for the exact same part. All other costs are the same. No value has been added to it, that 375 is just a tax. The supplier has to front that additional 375 until the part is sold. That money is tied up, it can not be used, for example, to hire engineers (most likely in the US) to design the next generation of whatever until that part is sold. It is now a cost that is no different than any of the other costs to manufacture the part. The markup has to be added to the full cost of 1875, which means that part now will cost 2343.75, not the 2250 that it would cost if the tariff was applying in a similar fashion to a sales tax, where the consumer pays it at the time of final sale, not fronted by the supplier. This final cost is still considerably more than the 1875 it will cost without the tariff.

I would love to buy US for all the parts. If someone can point me to a manufacturer in the US that is stamping similar cost, quality and range of sheet metal to AMD for a 70 Road Runner I will gladly purchase from them.

That kind of 400% markup either way is the kind of markup drug cartels would love to have.
For a more serious answer, using more realistic markups, see my reply above.

great sales pitch...yes, folks stock up on those fine Eagle cranks before the coming price jump. Don't forget to buy a spare too.

Buy them now because Chinese 'quality' may not get any better.



(not mine)

Looks like the term "cheap Mopar guys" is now a thing of the past. If you want to play outside the sandbox you will need to pay up!!!!

i think I’ll just buy a hellcat engine next time.

It is .. the cost to make the cans is increasing due to tariffs on aluminum

Thank you Brandon.
I appreciate the ethics of letting us know whats coming.

Fwiw: There really isn't anything called "manufacturer eating cost increases ".
why?

Economics rule is the the consumer pays for everything.
If i haul water from a stream, i payed for the water with my labor- grin.
when manufactures "eat the increase" its because their former margins allowed for it - so we already paid for it and, at some point is costs stay higher, we will pay the increase>

As a shop owner, i have to make a profit, i can decide to take a little less profit but, i still have to make money or i wont exist for long.

as to the sheet metals /panels pricing, ours are already up some and we are being told to expect price increases the first of the year.
we are going to stock up what we can so that we don't have to adjust current build prices but bids/estimates after we use up the metals we buy now, will have to reflect our increased costs.

My brother buys massive amounts of steel all over the world and confirms Brandon's report btw.

China will come to the table eventually, deals will be made eventually and we will all live with those deals as they are then.
Like Brandon/440 source /Folks on here- we buy American as much as we can,some things, its just not possible , others its not practical.

Thanks Brandon, we will look at our build schedules, talk to customers and see what shakes out.

I do believe things will get better sooner , rather than later on this issue.

I tried to bring this very subject up several months ago, in the interest of alerting the fence-sitters, like some of my friends, and asked to not get political. It was immediatley removed. Now, a big vendor does the same thing, and its alright? What made the difference? My post was to get people to thinking about just this scenario and act before the tarrifs go in place and the supply dries up, nothing more, nothing less. Some Moderators on here seem to be overzealous!
A big Thanks to Brandon for getting the message out, and good luck to all the buyers!

Yes, i understand all of this, but lets not forget about the corporate tax cuts. From 35% down to 21%. Thats a big tax cut for business. So much so that Walmart of all places gave $1000 bonuses to their employees. The tarrifs are just a small bump in the road.
I remember when fuel prices were sky high and prices were raised on goods because of the trucking costs including tires. Now that the fuel prices are down do you see the price of tires or any other goods with lower prices? I dont. Just look up 12.50x35 tires for you truck. Just my 2 cents

Dave Walmart got a 22 billion tax cut and returned 56 million to employees wages.

So for every dollar they got they returned 1/4 of a cent. Not even a penny on the dollar.

Didnt know that, but goes along with my point of businesses raising prices because of tariffs. I think its a small increase some want to take big advantage of. Just go to the grocery store and see what that cost. Those prices never came back down.
There was a bunch of other businesses that gave $1000 bonuses to employees because the tax cuts were so great. Lowes, consumers energy just to name a couple.

Same pennies on a dollar smoke screen. They keep the money.

Business got a 14% tax cut we we got 1%. I cant feel sorry for business right now and just expect the prices reduced back to original once the tariffs are off.
I do understand their will be a second stage to tax cuts for middle class coming soon. Lets hope

As a small business owner, i can tell you the tax cuts are a huge positive.
The tariffs being talked about here represent less than 1% of our total trade with China.
We are talking a 20 trillion dollar economy and a few hundred million in tariffs. The Chinese economy is less than half of ours.
And again, they need us. We buy WAY more from them than everybody else. At the end of the day they need us way more than we need them
The reason all the plants have been closed across American for years with weeds growing in parking lots is because our wealth was sold/ given to the Chinese the last 30-40 years.
Putting an end to it is much needed and long overdue. Ultimately it will be way more than worth it.

If your married and filing jointly, if you made under 315, 000 dollars your tax rate went down between 3-4%.
Its easy to look up the old and new tax brackets to verify this.

Gotta remember too, pretty much half the people in the country dont pay a dime in taxes

I figured this was going to happen and already bought all the engine parts and repop body parts I needed for my projects. Although even if I waited, 10% wouldn't make or break any of the builds... what I need is more storage cause even my house is getting filled

They get prices up and it does not matter if next year they fall through the floor on cost side--prices will remain up --the gas price hike that sent everything skyward is perfect example--gas dropped but nothing else did

I am married and file jointly so my tax cut may be higher than i thought. I make about $1000 more per year under president Trump than i did under Obama. I drive a truck for Roger Penske, but my pay has been reduced and increased since 2000. I now make a $1.25 more than i did in 2003 and have been way passed by, by inflation and it just bugs me to see some business take advantage of any little thing to increase prices while never reduced when things return to normal. I think alot of us out here expected to reap some benifits of the business tax cuts by business passing off better deals to the customer. I dont know, is it greed or just business?
You as a small business owner understand all this better than me.

I'm not a moderator, but I can see that either this thread is going to be locked, or some people are going to start getting their posts blown away and/or posting privileges suspended.

I understand. I'm off my stump now.

Can you provide any history as to this crank failure?

Oh, you'll probably need to post it on another thread since this one is getting so jacked up that I hear the toilet handle being wiggled in the background.

It just leaves the door open for a bigger and better deal, if 440 source sees the need to raise its prices 25% and if another can fill the void with equal parts and better prices thats how business works. They will feel it both ways.

I do not see some of the bigger sellers of certain internals I use a penny higher in the last couple years, time will tell. Maybe they can absorb it better for the good of there company.

I think some companies feel they are doing US the favor but WE are putting food on there table and paying there light bill.

I can't afford one now so......

Whats the story on the Molnar cranks? Are they chinese aswell?

I have never seen one break in the front. Eagle cranks always break in the rear from what i have seen.

Your in a good position to be in. Truck drivers are in very short supply and sooner rather than later are going to be able to leverage more money due to competition to hire them.
Have read several articles on trucking shortages here just in the last couple of weeks

Economics 101, the customer will always cover the costs.
If you've been paying attention, prices have increased on a lot of products recently.

So maybe the time of grinding stock heads and polishing rods isn't over, finding horsepower in stock parts is an art buying parts is an absession.

A lot of products/ services have went way down as well

Televisions
Cameras
Cell phone plans
Airline tickets
Computers
Toys
Kids clothing
Appliances
Apples..... no kidding
Solar panels
Books
CD’s

Just to name a few.......

And many cars have went down in real cost compared to inflation as well. Camry, Corrola and Honda Odyessey to name a few

This is, in fact how the economy SHOULD operate. Over time, as costs go down, manufacturing techniques are developed to produce products cheaper a quicker come along, prices should go down. As you pointed out above, some have. And in fact, most likely should have come down more.


They don't because of the hidden tax of inflation. Prices don't really go up. What is happening, the value of the money you have is going down.

They are having major trouble getting CDL truck drivers in the states that legalized marijuana due to the federal drug testing. I have a friend that's an open road driver and he says several companies are already using self driven trucks on their own property.

I understand UPS has a whole fleet of self driving semi trucks. Good driving truck drivers that can pass a drug screen are getting hard to find.

SMH.....

how is this post allowed??

Poor Monte SMith couldn't have the NOS logo in his posts, but this is a 7 page thread already by a Vendor ??? about his products?? Whats MOPARTS coming too?? LOL

On a side note, everything I ever bought from 440 source has been great products !!

Simple Monte USED moparts to advertise his business

And 440 Source is a long time Moparts Sponsor

Big difference

Most of those bonuses were graduated, meaning only the 20yr+ employees rec'd 1K were as a 1 to 2yr got $100, 3 to 5 got $200, ect....not all it was cracked up to be.

And kindly tell us how many got even a dime in years past.
Fact is, lots of people got bonuses they never got before as a result of the tax cuts. You can quibble, but many hadnt before, and did now, and some got a good bit

Well, its about time the playing field got leveled, tarrifs have been the wrong direction for a long time....Lets see how it goes...Its not like there are any blocks out there anyways.

Maybe I'll get enough of a tax break to cover the price increase on my 434 sb stroker kit next spring.

I got a bonus they raised my tax bracket to 32%.

I guess the over $41,000 Federal taxes I paid last year wasn't good enough. I'm a retired lineman that made the mistake of never getting married,having kids,or living in debt. I did without and saved and invested. And my reward is to always pay a higher percentage taxes than the top 1%. The tax on my same income would be over $9000 less just by being married. I don't mind someone getting a break but quit billing me because I'm single and don't have any right offs.

In the end, it is the consumer who pays all taxes. Cost of corporate tax is figured into the cost of goods and sales prices are set for a certain margin. We all benefit from the corporate tax cuts.

My taxes will go up about $10,000 i lost all per diem travel expenses 60000 for last year . car parts will be less affordable

You seem to missing the big picture,not married and no kids is saving you more than you ever know.

I looked at the old and new tax brackets. If you made enough to pay 32% on a little of your income and didn't before the tax cuts you must have had taxable income of 180k ish or so.
Because at 195k you would have been paying 33% before.
So in that slot, you payed a good bit less on most of it, and a tiny bit more on a very low percentage of it, because up to 157.5 k you only paid 24% compared to 28% before.
If you make a decent income like that you should find some rocks to crawl under. There are plenty.

Invest in housing property and take all the exemptions allowed by law like that guy they were talking about the other day on TV. Never paid any taxes. I did the same , did it all legal and never paid a cent.

i thought maybe he was talking about the tax rate on a "bonus" check, if i remember correctly it is around 40%

What part of no politics don't you understand??

Boy did this post turn into a trainwreck. Thanks Brandon for the heads up.

Which is a bogus metric.

A bonus, or an unusual overtime check etc, is taxed as if it's your usual income, as in it will continue every pay period. It's part of your total taxes already paid come April 15th.

So while you get taxed HEAVY on a bonus check, the actual money you pay the government is al calculated on your annual taxes.

FINALLY someone that gets it.

Your killing me here, cry cry cry.... its pretty simple, if ya dont like the cost of something dont buy it.

If you dont like your tax bracket, change it. If making 20k more a year is costing you 30k more (just picking a random figure) at the end of the year....DA?

The smartest guy posting here is the one who never married and never had kids imo. Far far far money ahead and will most surely live longer.

Dropped a 400 block off at the machine shop today and just out of curiosity I asked if the tariffs were affecting his prices yet and without hesitation he said oh yes.

jsta working on a amply block ? .. I would like to hear how they. Justify THAT !!

I think you are missreading the post.

Glad I've been stock-piling parts the last couple years.
Still gotta get me a few more Chinese turbos QUICK.
Maybe even an extra set of chinesium Magnum heads for 500 bucks off ebay.

Oh, and a couple 4.8's from the JY.
NOT!!!!!!

Well, maybe just one to play with. lol

So is this still accurate? The 440 source website doesn't indicate that there are any pending price increases. Enquiring minds want to know...

NOT to talk politics but our leader is saying he will jack up tariffs on imported cars AND parts as he heads into upcoming G20 talks--so if that happens and he is not just saying it to gain leverage--well then everything we use from rotor for your kids Honda to H beam rods etc pretty much everything in YearOne catalog--all repro parts , sheet metal etc would get hit
And as we know prices NEVER go back down so........

Hold on Boys............

The image some have of him "winning" a trade war and getting prices lower is a silly dream

just a "no win" situation for us common folks as always.

It's sad that Americans are so ignorant of tariffs.

What is really sad is not one of our past leaders or politician have done anything to help our country combat foreign tariffs against our goods in the past, hopefully we, all of us U.S. citizens, will come out the better for Trumps efforts

Weld racing wheels for the front of my car have increased $70/wheel over the last few months.

Typically, Tariffs are nothing more than a tax passed on to the end user.

You can absorb it, or so I've been told. LOL

Enjoy!!!

I'm going to avoid the political [censored] 'cause a don't have enough zeros in my paycheck to mean anything, other than my vote. Brandon came here and threw out a number, but it looks more like a spitball than a quote. I'm not ready to pull the trigger on a stroker kit. With a 25% increase I may just get some new slugs to go with an old "451" crank and manley rods that I was thinking about selling. The extra cubes would be fun, but nothing says I have the right to 512 cubes and I've got other things to do with my income.

That's right, and the Chinese (and everyone else) is using tariffs to make the US citizen pay for their standard of living.

If tariffs didn't work, the Chinese and every other parasite nation wouldn't care if we raised them.

The tariff can also be used to FORCE worthless corporations (not an American thing by any stretch, although he neo cons love to tell everyone the corporation is a great thing...it isn't) to build the infrastructure here rather than overseas.

Again, the ignorance of the population about tariffs and their uses is criminal.

You can use the tariff to benefit your nation, or you can use them like we do to make other nations wealthy off the backs of US labor.


Cheap import car [censored] is a sad song to sing for long term prosperity.

I'm sure China thanks all of you who want cheap junk [censored] for building their nation for them.

Fools