Dyeing a convertible top? (plastics experts pls look!)
#254647
03/15/09 06:04 PM
03/15/09 06:04 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,756 London, England
Gavin
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I need to change the color of my convertible top from white to black. My options are 1) to dye or paint the rear curtain and replace the top itself, or 2) just dye both.
I'm aware the topic of vinyl dye/paint has been discussed many times here over the years, SEM paint seems well regarded and preparation is the key to success. I'm also aware that the terms 'dye' and 'paint' are often used interchangeably but are actually different processes, the obvious meaning being that a dye runs right through the material and a paint sits on top. Clearly in theory a dye would be better as it could not wear off. However, some maintain that there is no such thing as a vinyl dye as vinyl cannot absorb a liquid.
OK, my questions! Is dying OR painting a convertible top realistic? I know vinyl roofs have been done but a vert top is folded back on itself and when retracted I think the considerable weight of the top forces two (dyed/painted) surfaces of the top against each other, potentially for a long time and in hot environmental conditions. Would a paint or dye hold up? Might I need to re-dye at a later date (and if so, is that really such an issue?)
Does Vinyl DYE actually exist? A number of manufacturers advertise it, e.g. Varikote, VHT, Duplicolor, etc. They specifically makes statements such as "this is NOT a paint, it is a dye that penetrates the surface...blah blah". However, some of them also indicate that eventually it might wear off, which doesn't seem consistent with my definition of a dye. Looking at the MSDS they seem to contain Acetone, toluene etc - are they in effect 'melting' the surface to get the color 'penetrating', albeit not going right through the material? If so, is this any better than a good paint?
Buying a new black curtain is not an option right now, but I do have a black top I could use. However the existing top/curtain are still in great shape, I fitted them many years ago and could not guarantee to make a similarly good job next time! So dying the whole thing would be the easiest and safest route - I guess it will depend on whether consensus is that dyeing the curtain alone would last longer than dyeing the whole top (most of the curtain is not exposed and you wouldn't get the surface-to-surface contact), and how long I might expect the whole thing to hold up.
Opinions and experience welcomed!!
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Re: Dyeing a convertible top? (plastics experts pls look!)
[Re: Gavin]
#254650
03/16/09 12:45 PM
03/16/09 12:45 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 27,347 Today? Who Knows?
1_WILD_RT
Management Trainee
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Management Trainee
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Posts: 27,347
Today? Who Knows?
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I used SEM dye back in the early 90's on a old convertible top, it bought me another three years.. The deal is vinyl dye is actually a paint that can flex, to be a true dye it would need to soak into the material but vinyl is non-porous so nothing can soak in....Originally the vinyl is dyed as part of the chemical process when it's being made, after it's made all you can do is put something on the surface... The more you operate the top the more surface cracks will appear in the dye, it's flexable but folding the top excedes its ability to flex... Personally if I were finishing a restoration like you are I'd pony up for a new top so I wouldn't have to go back in a few years.. But I also understand money is tight...
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Re: Dyeing a convertible top? (plastics experts pls look!)
[Re: 1_WILD_RT]
#254651
03/16/09 06:33 PM
03/16/09 06:33 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,756 London, England
Gavin
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Thanks more good info I thought that SEM only made a paint (not dye), in which case everything you said confirms what I would expect. Of course if vinyl dye does not exist then everything is a paint no matter what it is called. Hence my question on that - I'm with you that I would have thought you can't dye vinyl as it is non-porous, which is why I posted after finding statements like "VHT's Penetrating Color Dye is not paint, but a true dye that permanently changes or restores the original color." and " (Varikote)penetrates into the surface and bonds itself to the molecules changing the pigmentation. Is a dye and not paint". etc etc. Yeah I have gone back and forth on the new top - but for now a new glass curtain (shipped to the UK don't forget $$$$$$$$ ) is unaffordable. If it looks feasible then in a sense I may have nothing to lose by trying the dye - unless it looks poor very quickly.
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Re: Dyeing a convertible top? (plastics experts pls look!)
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#254655
03/17/09 02:20 PM
03/17/09 02:20 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,756 London, England
Gavin
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Thanks for replying Scott, so I think that answer confirms there is really no such thing as a vinyl dye - only paint? (using a conventional definition that the the difference is that paint goes on top, dye penetrates through). To be honest I'm surprised those manufacturers make such a categoric statement given that its not really correct....but that is the reason I posted! As mentioned, I do have a black top I could use, but not a curtain so either way I have to dye/paint the curtain - you actually don't see much of that. I think I'll get some VHT (which is available over here), test it on some spare bits of vinyl from my top (I KNEW saving those offcuts was a good idea ) and see what it looks like. If it looks GREAT - I'll spray the top as well and replace as necessary in the future. If it is only passable, I guess I will install the spare top (more time.....will I ever get this car on the road ). Sounds like the flaking/peeling I was worried about under heat/pressure from the top is probably not an instant issue, so that is a major plus. Either way a new curtain can't be in the plan right now...so it will be what it will be..
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