Working on a buddy's streetrod. It has an unknown year Magnum series 360, with a carbed intake and is running an early 1978-ish Chrysler ignition system. 4 pin ign box/single ballast/no vacuum advance. It was brought to me non-running-no spark. I found lots of issues. Trust me. It had an OLD cast iron tach drive distributor in it that had been previously converted to a Chrysler electronic ign. pickup. Could not locate a correct pickup plate to repair it, so I went with a reman 1978 style distributor.

My question is this: When installing the old style distributors all of my books show approx location of the cap clips and location of #1 plug wire in the cap.
Magnum series engines have a screw on cap with the tabs in a different location and an entirely different pickup from the early style distributor cap clips. I understand about rotor location when #1 is on TDC, but where do you put #1 wire on the cap and where would the location of the cap tabs be with the distributor installed?? Magnum location or the earlier 1978 location?
I have it running now but it runs like crap even after setting the timing. Acts like the timing is way off.

Thoughts?

You'd set it up just like it was an LA engine. Not sure what you are asking. You are using an LA distributor, forget about how the Magnum one worked.

Thats what I needed to know. Thanks.

I'd recommend make sure you're on the compression stroke, locate #1 tdc, then I'd ensure the rotor is slightly counterclockwise relative to whatever terminal in the cap has the #1 plug wire going to it. Follow your firing order after that.

This approach will work even if someone did not install the intermediate shaft properly.

If you're certain nobody could have screwed up the installation of the intermediate shaft, you can follow the factory pictures and it will work. You could also pull the distributor and verify that.

If you do that stuff and don't have enough travel/twist available in the distributor to set the timing due to firewall clearance or similar issues, some combination of moving the wires to other terminals in the cap and/or adjusting the position of the intermediate shaft might be needed.

A long flat tip screwdriver handles any intermediate shaft installation issues. just set it up like an LA.

No. 1 can be anywhere on that cap as long as the rotor button is pointing at it.

With #1 at TDC (yes I am certain) when I pulled the distributor to check the intermediate shaft, it was NOT pointing in line with the crankshaft, but appears to be about one tooth off, counter-clockwise. IOW it is pointing at #1 cylinder. I will move the intermediate shaft so it is in line with the crank and see what that does. This car has been a royal pain to get squared around. I am on the second distributor, second ignition box, second coil and second ballast as well as a new ignition switch just to get it to run, period.
One thing I did discover is these new parts are JUNK. The coil that is on it now will function if not in the bracket and standing vertical on the intake. Mount it in the bracket and bolt it down horizontally and the car will only run about 20 seconds after you release the key to the run position, then dies out. Craziest thing I have ever seen......

As the car sets now, it will start and idle pretty well....until you touch the throttle, then it starts to snort and wheeze and buck and do everything but run....

turn the dampener to 15 BTDC #1 compression. clock the intergear so that when the dist is installed the rotor is pointing forward to the front of the car (& slightly to the pass side if possible) & if the intergear is free & it sounds like it is from the work you are doing then turning it CW with a big screwdriver in the slot will raise/turn it. with dist installed, turn housing till the magnet is dead even with the nearest tooth & with no vacuum adv you can rotate it anywhere so you can easily access the holddown straps (& use whatever tooth that puts you at). confirm the rotor (springs) is retracted (CCW) & critical is that the rotor blade is now under or near under the dist cap terminal that is above it (Rotor Phasing). plug the #1 plug wire in the cap terminal above the rotor blade & work on around CW for the rest of em. Any Q's holler. EDIT & if it helps the confusion, dont sweat where the intergear notch is in relation the the crank CL (some dizzys have way different bottom shaft notch to reluctor tooth/rotor clocking). All that matters is if the Rotor Phasing is acceptable/plug wires are in order (5&7 are easy to cross), reluctor gap is OK (.008" with brass feeler gauge) & timing is in the ballpark & that the box/coil are good. On a side note do you have an immediate squirt out the AP's when you blip the throttle? MORE EDIT As said you can locate #1 anywhere but keeping with the OE location (#1 forward/slightly to pass side) maintains the factory standardization (helps against future mistakes) & lets the wires nestle the neatest with the shortest lengths possible (not super critical but that last part helps).

Intermediate shaft is properly aligned now. Distributor is phazed properly. Have had the firing order memorized for the past 40+ years. Timing is set at 15 degrees. Carb is brand new and functioning like it should.

I do believe I have another crappy coil, since when you lay it down horizontally the car quits. And no, the coil + and - wires are not grounding out when you put the coil in the horizontal position.

Success!

It is getting to be real difficult to find quality parts anymore.

Can you use a Magnum style dry coil in a setup like this, using a single ballast resistor?

lots of guys are trying the new style epoxy filled coils these days. i have not tried this, but will at some point in the future. just throwing this out there. remember, i have had no experience with these as yet. your mileage may vary .......

Correct me if I am wrong.
When I think of distributor phasing, I think of the internals of the distributor.


This is how I do it.
Use an old distributor cap and drill a 1/2" to 3/4" hole next to the #1 spark plug wire terminal. This is so you can see the rotor tip and the metal nub underside of the cap.
Drill a 1/2" to 3/4" hole above the magnetic pick up.

This next part is easiest with the dizzy not installed in the motor.

Install the rotor and the cap with the holes in it.

Rotate the rotor till the point is centered on the metal nub.

Look at the position( Phasing )of the reluctor to the magnetic pick up.

If it does not align up the vacuum advance arm will need to be bent (how ever it takes and to also not rub on any thing) to fix the alignment.

Reinstall into the motor making sure your on the compression stroke on #1.

You realize that mechanical and vacuum advance will change the relationship of the rotor to the cap making your efforts futile.

Actually vac adv will shift RP but mechanical or initial amount will not & with no vac adv like the OP has on his setup it will not change & he could on the cap, drill a 1/2" hole in between the center tower terminal and the #1 or #6 cap tower terminal about 2/3 of the way closer to the outer one & if vac adv then another hole right next to the center tower to access the reluctor tooth/magnet to get dead on alignment/then take off the cap & you will see where to drill it. For Phasing check: get the tooth dead on with the magnet then see where the rotor is at in relation to the cap terminal. With vac adv it is better to check it in operation & freeze the rotor with your light with it idling (& forget about the reluctor position) & you can unplug/plugin the can & see the rotor swing thru its arc & you want the cap terminal to be pretty much "centered" in the rotors' swing arc or at least closer with no vac cuz that is where it will be at WOT when the required voltage is the greatest & the available voltage is the least (shorter coil rise time from the higher RPM) but you have no vac adv so no issue there on the arc as it is fixed & if it (rotor blade) is very near the cap terminal right now then it is OK. several ways to move RP if it is off.

I am asking this again because I have not had time to mess with this car for a day or two, getting ready to order another oil/coil from a different source after checking rotor phazing.

what brand/part # & we'll look it up

IT had a no vac advanced setup, it doesn;t now.

If you don't think the mechanical or even the initial does not change rotor to cap relationships I suggest you get a distributor and play around with it. You will see it does indeed change.

What does the mechanical advance affect? The rotor and reluctor location. If the spark timing is changed it is firing with the rotor in a different location. Look at the below pic. The slots allow the top part of the shaft to rotate in relation to the bottom. As the top rotates it moves both the rotor tip and the reluctor changing the timing. As the rotor tip moves your "phasing" changes.

we had a go around on this some odd months back here on Moparts & (3) guys (on here) even bet me ($10 each) that I was wrong in saying mech adv WOULD NOT change RP & they said it did & one even sent a dist to the other guy for him to spin it up & when it was all said & done they said that I was right & the one guy even paid for the other guys' bet cuz he kinda enticed him into it & the third guy welched. With the $20 I went & bought a steak with the money & I was queasy for several days (I'm a 99% vegan) but I wanted to celebrate. The circumferential relationship (distance) from the rotor to the tooth, yes it is fixed & turning the housing (initial) or the springs (mech adv) which shifts the rotor/reluctor (they're on the same shaft) gives more timing but neither of those two changes changes their aforementioned circumferential distance so the RP stays the same but vac adv (shifting the magnet) still does not change that circumferential relationship of the rotor/reluctor (cuz they are fixed on the shaft) but it & only it will shift RP cuz the tooth reaches the magnet sooner so when it fires the rotor is now at a different clocking. (After typing this I am ready for another steak)! EDIT easy confirmation: drill the 1/2" hole in the cap 2/3 of the way from center terminal to #1 terminal & unhook/cap the vac adv line & shine your timing light in the hole to "freeze" it & jerk the throttle & the rotor will not move (I promise).