Re: Question for B1 guys
[Re: sgcuda]
#2540061
08/22/18 03:27 PM
08/22/18 03:27 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,185 PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,185
PA.
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How much of a gain are you expecting over a 2.300 valve. My second set of heads have a 2.300 titanium valve but I didn't buy them as they came that way. After a certain point money is better spent on the Moved centerline heads. A 2.300 valve will easily go 420 cfm on an honest CALIBRATED bench.
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: Question for B1 guys
[Re: sgcuda]
#2540071
08/22/18 04:01 PM
08/22/18 04:01 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457 Washington
madscientist
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master
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My Originals are out for overhaul. Being fitted with 2.350" intake. Because of the size and weight, we decided on hollow stems from Ferrea. They are galactic back order. My other option is Titanium. Valves and new copper seats are a $900 upgrade. I was told that the Ti valves would add a lot of life to the valves, springs and valve job. I'm leaning towards the upgrade. Any downside besides cost? I agree with PBR on the bigger valves. I'd rather see that head with a 50* valve job than a bigger valve. The Ti valves will be a life saver. When the valves get long and the head diameter gets bigger you need to go to smaller stems and Titanium. Your heads will thank you for the Ti intakes.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: Question for B1 guys
[Re: sgcuda]
#2540656
08/23/18 11:18 PM
08/23/18 11:18 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457 Washington
madscientist
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I don't know. It seems like any is better than a 45 for racing, according to the charts. Maybe it's just a Chevy thing. Hardly a Chevy thing. Done correctly, it works on most heads. Chrysler guys are just slow to respond.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: Question for B1 guys
[Re: sgcuda]
#2540685
08/24/18 12:31 AM
08/24/18 12:31 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
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Romeo MI
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I had B1MC heads.. they came with the TI valves..2.4 I had to replace 1.. was $110 per ti valve but they are a fair bit lighter.. to me.. it was worth the price specially if you turn up the RPMs
Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 08/24/18 12:35 AM.
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Re: Question for B1 guys
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#2540770
08/24/18 08:49 AM
08/24/18 08:49 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,243 Charlotte, North Carolina
sgcuda
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I had B1MC heads.. they came with the TI valves..2.4 I had to replace 1.. was $110 per ti valve but they are a fair bit lighter.. to me.. it was worth the price specially if you turn up the RPMs I don't think that the MC intake valves come any other way. At least, no one that I have heard ever used anything else. I've already paid for the hollow stems, $325. I guess a $900 upgrade to include new copper seats installed is a pretty good deal. No sense stopping now, going to pull the trigger on the upgrade. Thanks, everybody, for the input.
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Re: Question for B1 guys
[Re: sgcuda]
#2540800
08/24/18 10:23 AM
08/24/18 10:23 AM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457 Washington
madscientist
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I had B1MC heads.. they came with the TI valves..2.4 I had to replace 1.. was $110 per ti valve but they are a fair bit lighter.. to me.. it was worth the price specially if you turn up the RPMs I don't think that the MC intake valves come any other way. At least, no one that I have heard ever used anything else. I've already paid for the hollow stems, $325. I guess a $900 upgrade to include new copper seats installed is a pretty good deal. No sense stopping now, going to pull the trigger on the upgrade. Thanks, everybody, for the input. It's only money. You can't take it with you. I tell my my wife that. Doesn't work. You can try it if you want. YMMV.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: Question for B1 guys
[Re: sgcuda]
#2540825
08/24/18 11:45 AM
08/24/18 11:45 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,010 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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I went down this road with 440 -1 heads (bigger intakes, 2.30 vs 2.25) and the flow chart said 5 percent minimum gain. Et gain? Zero! So my point is it might be a good idea to do sme heavy research like et gains, talk to those that have direct experiance with this move. The switch to MCs might gain you much more hp per $$?
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: Question for B1 guys
[Re: gregsdart]
#2540904
08/24/18 03:08 PM
08/24/18 03:08 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457 Washington
madscientist
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I went down this road with 440 -1 heads (bigger intakes, 2.30 vs 2.25) and the flow chart said 5 percent minimum gain. Et gain? Zero! So my point is it might be a good idea to do sme heavy research like et gains, talk to those that have direct experiance with this move. The switch to MCs might gain you much more hp per $$? The gain to the MC head will be minimal if the OP uses a 50* seat on his head and the smaller valve. I'd still use a Ti intake. Of course, you could use the MC head with a bigger valve and a 50* seat and make more power, if the port has the area to feed that valve.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: Question for B1 guys
[Re: madscientist]
#2540969
08/24/18 05:42 PM
08/24/18 05:42 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,243 Charlotte, North Carolina
sgcuda
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OP
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The gain to the MC head will be minimal if the OP uses a 50* seat on his head and the smaller valve.
I'd still use a Ti intake.
Of course, you could use the MC head with a bigger valve and a 50* seat and make more power, if the port has the area to feed that valve. The OP's name is Kenny. (Nothing against you, mad, but I've always hated that phrase "The OP".) I decided to go with Titanium intakes for the weight savings and letting my valve train live longer. Power increase with the 2.350" over the 2.300" might be marginal, but since there is no price difference, as far as I see, it's free horsepower. I'm letting my machinist make the final call on the valve angles. My engine goal is to hit 1,000 hp with my 605 build. If it's 1,001 or 1,100 I really don't care. I want my car to run 7.90's when I'm done and not break anything. For at least the first 2 race days, anyway.
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Re: Question for B1 guys
[Re: sgcuda]
#2541009
08/24/18 07:27 PM
08/24/18 07:27 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457 Washington
madscientist
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The gain to the MC head will be minimal if the OP uses a 50* seat on his head and the smaller valve.
I'd still use a Ti intake.
Of course, you could use the MC head with a bigger valve and a 50* seat and make more power, if the port has the area to feed that valve. The OP's name is Kenny. (Nothing against you, mad, but I've always hated that phrase "The OP".) I decided to go with Titanium intakes for the weight savings and letting my valve train live longer. Power increase with the 2.350" over the 2.300" might be marginal, but since there is no price difference, as far as I see, it's free horsepower. I'm letting my machinist make the final call on the valve angles. My engine goal is to hit 1,000 hp with my 605 build. If it's 1,001 or 1,100 I really don't care. I want my car to run 7.90's when I'm done and not break anything. For at least the first 2 race days, anyway. I'm ok with the bigger valve Kenny. I'd ask your engine builder if he has done a 50 or 55* seat.monce you start with them, and understand what you're getting, you'll almost always use one. I use them on my street engines and I'm .620 lift. I know of other engine builders who have used a 50* seat with as little lift as .485 so don't let lift influence the decision. Also, don't be afraid if the heads lose low lift flow, stay even in the mids and gain a bit (or no gain at all) at high lift as flow doesn't matter. It's all about the shape.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: Question for B1 guys
[Re: sgcuda]
#2541010
08/24/18 07:31 PM
08/24/18 07:31 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457 Washington
madscientist
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I also forgot to mention that one problem you run into with a 50 or 55* seat is to put a steeper seat on a valve that has a 45* seat will take a ton of materiel off the margin.
That's why it's better to order valves with a 50* face on them. You don't kill the margin.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: Question for B1 guys
[Re: madscientist]
#2541221
08/25/18 12:28 PM
08/25/18 12:28 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,243 Charlotte, North Carolina
sgcuda
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Charlotte, North Carolina
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I also forgot to mention that one problem you run into with a 50 or 55* seat is to put a steeper seat on a valve that has a 45* seat will take a ton of materiel off the margin.
That's why it's better to order valves with a 50* face on them. You don't kill the margin. The extra grinding really shouldn't effect the margin, since you will be grinding material off of the face. But the whole overall outer edge of the valve would be thinner due to the steeper angle. Regardless, since I am getting valve blanks ordered up, it would be something to mention. The valve lift will be .900". I'm planning on spinning this to 7,000 rpm. Would these parameters let a 50 degree valve angle shine above a 45.
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Re: Question for B1 guys
[Re: sgcuda]
#2541323
08/25/18 05:43 PM
08/25/18 05:43 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457 Washington
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I also forgot to mention that one problem you run into with a 50 or 55* seat is to put a steeper seat on a valve that has a 45* seat will take a ton of materiel off the margin.
That's why it's better to order valves with a 50* face on them. You don't kill the margin. The extra grinding really shouldn't effect the margin, since you will be grinding material off of the face. But the whole overall outer edge of the valve would be thinner due to the steeper angle. Regardless, since I am getting valve blanks ordered up, it would be something to mention. The valve lift will be .900". I'm planning on spinning this to 7,000 rpm. Would these parameters let a 50 degree valve angle shine above a 45. Absolutely a steeper than 45* seat will help. As to the valve face, remember when you change from a 45 degree face to anything steeper, the grinding wheel starts at the margin side of the valve and grinds towards the stem. The opposite of that is grinding say, a 44.5 or even a 44 degree angle on a valve with a 45 degree face. The grinder will start at the stem side of the face and grind out to the margin. If I am facing used valves that were in decent shape, I'd use a 44.5 setting on the grinder. Especially on exhaust valves. If the seats were coined in a bit, I'd set the grinder at 44 degrees so it didn't affect stem height as much. Just a couple of things to think about.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: Question for B1 guys
[Re: sgcuda]
#2541388
08/25/18 09:51 PM
08/25/18 09:51 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,243 Charlotte, North Carolina
sgcuda
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OP
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Charlotte, North Carolina
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Starting with all new valves. I'm going to have some conversation with my head builder on this. Some interesting food for thought. With a steeper valve angle, would it cause any deterioration in valve life?
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