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Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
#25319
07/31/06 09:52 PM
07/31/06 09:52 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,220
toronto canada
69chargeryeehaa
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Quote:
I was cleaning the dust out of my garage from all the sanding I've been doing to get the car ready. I decided I would finally try to polish my test panel that has been sitting for at least two weeks now. I worked the turtle wax compound for about ten minutes but only got a haze that others have reported. I'm going to pull out the polisher tomorrow but can someone tell me which pad to use as well as giving me instructions on what to do. I just bought the polisher for this project and have never worked with one in the past. Appreciate the help.
Also Charger, after the final coat you are saying to let it sit in the sun for a day, then wetsand, polish and wax all the next day or should you wait a week, month, etc before waxing?
wetsand final, then wait a day, let it sit in the sun (for that day), final wetsand 1000+ grit, then use the terry cloth bonnet on a random orbit about 3000-4000 rpm polisher (i used a 10" one), turtle wax polishing compound, and lots of water. polishing the hood for example should take you about a hour, if not 1.5 hours.   
the longer you wait, the more you have to polish.
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Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
[Re: 69chargeryeehaa]
#25320
07/31/06 10:10 PM
07/31/06 10:10 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,475
Ontario, Canada
78D150CLUB
My avatar is a self portrait!!
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My avatar is a self portrait!!
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,475
Ontario, Canada
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The ones I got seem pretty smooth in that regard, no pieces coming off after 3 coats, but I do find they tend to lay the paint down a little heavier, requiring a little extra rolling out. On the plus side of that, I start at one end of the panel, and sweep along it slowly about 1 - 2 inches at a time and I have virtually no roller lines. Don't know if this helps anyone else out, just passing along my opinion. Not right or wrong, just the only thing I have that's really mine  Everyone seems to be adding some really good points and tips as this thread (thread? more like a rope by now) goes along. Makes for very interesting reading and viewing of the results.
I want to die like my Grampa, peacefully, in his sleep. Not screaming in terror like his passengers.
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Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
[Re: 69chargeryeehaa]
#25321
08/01/06 12:55 AM
08/01/06 12:55 AM
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Anonymous
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Quote:
wetsand final, then wait a day, let it sit in the sun (for that day), final wetsand 1000+ grit, then use the terry cloth bonnet on a random orbit about 3000-4000 rpm polisher (i used a 10" one), turtle wax polishing compound, and lots of water. polishing the hood for example should take you about a hour, if not 1.5 hours.
the longer you wait, the more you have to polish.
So put on the final coat, next day, wet sand, clean it off (rinse with water and wipe with spirits?) let it sit in the sun, then wet sand again, clean off (water + chamois and spirits?), then polish, while polishing you say "use lots of water" do you mean "keep the bonnet damp" water or "run water over where you're polishing" water and keep everything kinda drippy wet soaked?
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Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
#25323
08/01/06 09:34 AM
08/01/06 09:34 AM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,220
toronto canada
69chargeryeehaa
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toronto canada
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Quote:
So put on the final coat, next day, wet sand, clean it off (rinse with water and wipe with spirits?) let it sit in the sun, then wet sand again, clean off (water + chamois and spirits?), then polish, while polishing you say "use lots of water" do you mean "keep the bonnet damp" water or "run water over where you're polishing" water and keep everything kinda drippy wet soaked?
process is after final wetsand, clean the car with a chamois and water while you wetsand, each part at a time so the wetsanding residue does'nt dry, then let it sit in the sun for a day, then polish, keep a spray bottle handy with water in it, load up the polishing compound on the bonnet (about a table spoon)breifly polish to distribute the polish, then spray the bonnet with water, not to dripping but wet, then polish the area, lets' say you polish about a 3' square area at a time. as your polishing, you'll notice it starts to get dry, that's when you spray the bonnet with water again, make sure you use the terry bonnets, not the fluffy ones, and not the foam ones. don't expect mirrior results without LOTS of polishing, like i mentioned before, hood should take you about 1.5hrs. at any time you can clean with spitits, but ususally durring polishing i just use a shamios, mineral spirits is not really used durring polishing, only in between painting, after wetsanding to clean. also right after you polish, hit it with a coat of wax, when your satasified with the polish, wax is very important, after the wax it can be exposed to the elements, but it's better if you can to just keep it in the sun, for about a week, and put it in a garage for when it rains. after the 3 month period, it'll be rock hard. for the first week after painting don't wash the car, just use plain water and a shamios, and whipe the car down.
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Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
[Re: kenzo42]
#25324
08/01/06 09:45 AM
08/01/06 09:45 AM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,220
toronto canada
69chargeryeehaa
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toronto canada
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Quote:
I wrote to a guy who's been painting yachts now for ~30 years. He's had some experience w/ Brightside on his own yacht and car. This is what he wrote:
"hey there,
used brightside and it lays well BUT i would not use it on a car as it is soft and stains easily and weathers badly. It is designed to put a gloss on fiberglass for amatures. I would recommend dupont CENTARI for a good one stage paint if you are not experienced. if you want to be cheap rustolium
industrial paints or devoe are good BUT you have to get it at a industrial supply store. everything sold to consumers with the rustolium label is crap!
I am a big belever in 2 part epoxy primers and a 2 part polyurithane topcot
for the best job."
Rustomleum Industrial Paints? This isn't the stuff we're using, right? Maybe Tremclad?
I've also heard Brightside in shades of white which are not exposed to sun will yellow. I believe this has been mentioned before. Any thoughts?
Feedback will be appreciated.
Kenzo
the brightside looks like nice paint, but i've never worked with it and don't know what happens over the years; so i can't reccommend it, the tremclad however i know lasts, holds up very well, and is super easy to apply, the rustoleum i have not used, but it's very simmilar to the tremclad which i think is the same as rustoleum professional. boy i'm glad i'm in canada and tremclad is $25/Gal!!!! 
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Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
[Re: kenzo42]
#25325
08/01/06 09:58 AM
08/01/06 09:58 AM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,378
Rancho Cordova, CA
Exit1965
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,378
Rancho Cordova, CA
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Quote:
I wrote to a guy who's been painting yachts now for ~30 years. He's had some experience w/ Brightside on his own yacht and car. This is what he wrote:
"hey there,
used brightside and it lays well BUT i would not use it on a car as it is soft and stains easily and weathers badly. It is designed to put a gloss on fiberglass for amatures. I would recommend dupont CENTARI for a good one stage paint if you are not experienced. if you want to be cheap rustolium
industrial paints or devoe are good BUT you have to get it at a industrial supply store. everything sold to consumers with the rustolium label is crap!
I am a big belever in 2 part epoxy primers and a 2 part polyurithane topcot
for the best job."
Rustomleum Industrial Paints? This isn't the stuff we're using, right? Maybe Tremclad?
I've also heard Brightside in shades of white which are not exposed to sun will yellow. I believe this has been mentioned before. Any thoughts?
Feedback will be appreciated.
Kenzo
The industrial paints are different from the "professional" or "stops rust" varieties we are using. I thought only oil based enamels were prone to yellowing? That said, when I called Rustoleum about it, they said "Nope, it wont yellow" when I asked about painting my washer with white rustoleum. Don't know about brightside.
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Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
[Re: kenzo42]
#25326
08/01/06 12:07 PM
08/01/06 12:07 PM
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Anonymous
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Quote:
I wrote to a guy who's been painting yachts now for ~30 years. He's had some experience w/ Brightside on his own yacht and car. This is what he wrote:
"hey there,
used brightside and it lays well BUT i would not use it on a car as it is soft and stains easily and weathers badly.
Well, that's just great, I've already picked up my quarts of Brightside in Black. I guess I'll see firsthand how it holds up over time. Can't be any worse that the paint on there now.
The sanding has begun! Thanks, Marq, for the suggestion of 220 "3X" grit, it's cutting the old clearcoat pretty good. I'm going to try my Porter-Cable DA palm sander on flat panels (unless someone here says "don't do that!"). I've found using a hand block that I am revealing many primer areas in my effort to thoroughly sand off the CC. The hood is going to be my test piece, but after sanding I'm going to end up with a reverse Snow Leopoard (black with white spots) pattern if I keep reaching old primer!
I am concerned about this uneven coloration once I get to painting. When shopping for paint supplies, I did pick up a can of the Pre-Kote Interlux Grey Primer for Brightside "just in case," with the hope that I could return it unopened. I'm not sure now. I may brush over the existing primer spots with black Brightside, sand, evaluate, then do my first full coat of black... unless I'm just making more work for myself.
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Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
[Re: kenzo42]
#25327
08/01/06 12:30 PM
08/01/06 12:30 PM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 575
Canada
Marq
mopar addict
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mopar addict
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 575
Canada
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Quote:
I wrote to a guy who's been painting yachts now for ~30 years. He's had some experience w/ Brightside on his own yacht and car. This is what he wrote:
"
used brightside and it lays well BUT i would not use it on a car as it is soft and stains easily and weathers badly.
Well so far the Brightside I applied has dried HARD and this is after about two weeks of finishing the project. Now... I notice that your friend prefers to the two part systems. The two part systems are normally sprayed and that may cause a thicker coating on the boat that is being sprayed... hence the thicker coat may lead to his feeling that it is softer ( compared to a two part paint system - which your friend likes more - which has a hardening catalyst in it ).
The two-part polyurathane can also be rolled .. but because it has that hardening catalyst your rolling time for the paint you mix is more limited and begins firming up in the roller tray the minute you mix the two parts. ie what you roll in the first minutes of a batch of mixed paint is going to roll on thinner than what you roll on after 30 minutes of using that batch of mixed paint or even say 45 minutes into using that batch. I believe the setting or working time with the mixed two-part is approximately 4 hours... ( but the hardening begins once the two parts are blended together.. )
But the short answer is that I have found the Brightside to dry hard.
Quote:
Brightside is designed to put a gloss on fiberglass for amateurs.
In a backward complimentary way he sort of confirmed the gloss factor and the ease of use being suitable for 'amateurs'...
But the statement is in error BECAUSE instructions are clearly provided on the paint can, the Interlux web site and in the pamphlets for Brightside that show ALL the different surfaces that Brightside can be applied to... fiberglass, gelcoat, wood, metal - including aluminum, plastics, body fillers, caulking, primers and some others that would require me to go get the can to finish the list of surfaces Brightside can be used on...
Quote:
I would recommend dupont CENTARI for a good one stage paint if you are not experienced. if you want to be cheap rustolium
I can't speak for the one part CENTARI other than to note that is the first time I have heard anyone ( including folks in the marine message boards ) mention that specific brand. But it is nice to see that he confirms the usage of Rustoleum for those who are 'cheap' 
Quote:
I am a big belever in 2 part epoxy primers and a 2 part polyurithane topcot
for the best job."
I would agree with him on this one. The two part polyurathanes do produce a harder finish. Possible hard enough to CHIP when rocks bounce off it. But I believe that a one part polyurathane will reach the same level of 'hardness' when it reaches its maximum cured state. The two-part polyurathane has the hardening catalyst.. and so it simply reaches its point of maximum hardness sooner. But it also has a shorter working time when you are applying it and if you want to spray it you need to wear an oxygen tank because the fumes it gives off are hazardous to your health. Lastly... the two part paints cost two, three, four times or more than the one part paints....
Quote:
I've also heard Brightside in shades of white which are not exposed to sun will yellow. I believe this has been mentioned before. Any thoughts?
White in any paint has a tendency to acquire a yellow tinge with age. That is why most professional painters tend to add a spec of blue tint to their 'white' to permanently ward off the yellowing. This is especially true of CHEAP LATEX white paint. But that is also more relevant to 'old' paints from the 'old days' and the chemistry of modern paints have taken steps in the chemical composition of the paints and pigments (solids) to prevent yellowing. But even moderm CHEAPER BY THE GALLON type paints may suffer from not having anti-yellowing technology in them. Heck... even the polyurathane composition of the Brightside paint would help in sealing off the ability of oxygen to get beneath the outer skin of the paint job to discolor the pigment. And even further the solids or pigments are completely encapsulated and surrounded by the polyurathane which prevents oxygen from reaching them... And lastly... Brightside is a polyurathane... ( think of a liquid PLASTIC ). I would really like to know what type of staining substance can penetrate a solid plastic barrier. It just doesn't make sense.
The 'off white' colors are usually pre-dispositioned towards 'yellowing' in that they have a pigment that gives the initial 'off white' color. I don't think that would contribute to further 'yellowing' of that 'offwhite' color because these paints are engineered to hold their initial color without fade or discoloration for as long as it is chemically feasible. As we all know.. ALL paints eventually change color - and the real comparison of good paints and bad paints is 'how long is the paint engineered to hold its initial color. In this regard I think the Brightside and the Tremclad/Rustoleum are both engineered to 'hold their color' longer than many of the other paint products out there.
The only hint of a stain would occur where a substance with a contrasting color is able to enter the microscopic pores of the paint surface. But even there the staining substance can probably be encourage to detach itself from the pore with the right washing or cleansing. And in a worst case scenario the 'pore' could be removed with a wetsanding - since those pores only exist on the outer surface and do not act like passageways through the paint..
The Brightside paints for example do have special anti-UV ingredients to prevent fade or color changes from the ultra-violet rays of the sun.
But you mentioned that 'you had heard of yellowing in areas where there was no direct sun the whites were changing to yellow. My first thought is that it is obviously not a UV problem. Hmmmm... something not exposed to the sun.. like an inside cabin... would be affected by cigarette nicotine... that would yellow a white wall... or cooking in a galley would release things into the air that would yellow the walls inside the boat if they were enclosed and painted white. Just visit my mother's kitchen to see how cooking changes the colors of her kitchens walls etc.
I also remember hearing some comment regarding the ability of Brightside to withstand 'stains'. All I can say about that is that Brightside paint has a number of composites in it to defeat or repel stains. In particular the addition of 'Teflon' in the helps repel stains.
But let's face it... EVERYTHING is stainable. And I don't care if we are talking the most expensive multi-stage custom paint job with multi-ple layers of clear coat or the most expensive single stage paints ( whether rolled on or sprayed on ). It's all like talking about winter boots or wrist watches... where most will claim that they are 'water resistant' and folks assume that means they are 'water proof'. And yet we know in watches you only get 'water proof' in the most expensive brands of watches... and in winter boots ONLY a solid rubber boot can even be 'water proof'. There is no such thing in the world as a 'waterproof' leather boot.
So when talking about 'stains'... and car paint... ultimately the WAX you put on WHATEVER paint job will be the barrier that will prevent a stainable substance from reaching the paint. The porosity of the paint itself and even the porosity of the skin of the paint will also impact the degree to which it might be stainable without a wax barrier helping it out to make it 'stain resistant'.
The last words I will toss into this discussion about 'stains' are those that might occur FROM BENEATH the paint... where a substance below the paint leeches into the freshly applied paint. In a case where Brightside paint is applied to a wooden surface there is the possibility that the natural juices of the wood, which rise to the surface, might affect the paint from below. Even some unstable paints or primers... that are painted over might suffer from this type of 'staining' from below. There is not much you can do if the substrate is causing the staining from below.
Last edited by Marq; 08/01/06 05:04 PM.
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Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
#25329
08/01/06 01:33 PM
08/01/06 01:33 PM
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Jax, RE: Stripes - I was using the Rustoleum multi-coat method, so I did end up waiting until it was cured before removing the tape. If I remember right, I pulled the tape 24 hrs. after the final coat. Was it perfect? No, but not for the reasons you would think. 1-the base coat was not perfectly smooth (had some orange peel), and 2- I used ordinary blue painters tape. I was pleasantly surprised at how well it came off, and just how smooth the line actually was. The areas that required touch up ended up being where the stripe coat bled under the tape from it not being adhered evenly enough from the orange peel. Had I to do it over again, I would try to find a better tape. The other thing I did was to wetsand down along the edge where the tape and strip met before peeling the tape off. I can give you no scientific or substanative reason for doing so other than it seemed to make sense at the time. I figured by sanding down the edge seam, it might reduce the chances of the tape wanting to peel up the strip coat. I can't tell you if it made a difference or not, but I was overall satisfied with the results. Again, I think if I were to do it again, I would make sure the base coat was VERY smooth where I applied the tape, and I would use a tape that gave more uniform adhesion (non-crinkled tape, maybe even a pinstripe like vinyl tape). I would probably take the time to wetsand again as I explained, it didn't appear to hurt anything and may have helped. Hope this helps, I'm looking forward to seeing your results., BTW, everyone loves the racing stripes on the Beer Fridge! LOL And just to wet your appetite a little more, I found the beer fridge of my dreams - take a look! http://www.beermachines.com/
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Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
#25330
08/01/06 03:34 PM
08/01/06 03:34 PM
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To the guy who was thinking of using latex primer ... don't do it man! Using latex (water based) in conjunction with an oil enamel top coat is just asking for trouble. I would also think that you'll see some strange stuff happening when mixing latex primer with mineral spirits.
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Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
#25331
08/01/06 03:44 PM
08/01/06 03:44 PM
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Now that I got that out of the way, lemme introduce myself. I found this post last Friday via a link on the Oldsmobile mailing list. I've got a big ol' convertible boat that I'm going to try this method with. I was talking it over with my old man, who runs a body shop, and we figured "why not" ... he's always told me that you can get some decent results by lining your garage with plastic and wetting the floor before spraying, why not try it with some rollered on paint that lays down flat (self-levels) nicely? The car that I'll try this on is a beater ... the engine in it is literally worth 5x what the car is, and I had not planned on getting that car back on the road for years, if ever. You guys have inspired me to go out and buy the 6 quart $50 Interlux Brightside deal on e-bay and give this thing a shot. Can't wait 'till the stuff comes! I've got another Olds that will get the full treatment in the body shop, but that will use up my favors with dad for a while, so this process could be my old convertible's saving grace! At this point, I plan on doing this the right way. I've got lots of trim to remove, and I need to weld shut some holes where the wide body side molding originally attached ... yuck. This has been an awesome thread ... I've read the entire thing, and I can't wait to see what comes next with it
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Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
[Re: 69chargeryeehaa]
#25332
08/01/06 04:07 PM
08/01/06 04:07 PM
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"the rustoleum i have not used, but it's very simmilar to the tremclad which i think is the same as rustoleum professional."
I have been testing with the Rustoleum Stops Rust. Has anybody tested with both the Stops Rust and the Professional? If the Tremclad may be more similar to the Professional, maybe I should do some testing with the Professional.....
Any Comments??
Thanks, Mark
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Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
#25333
08/01/06 04:15 PM
08/01/06 04:15 PM
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Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
#25334
08/01/06 05:04 PM
08/01/06 05:04 PM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,378
Rancho Cordova, CA
Exit1965
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,378
Rancho Cordova, CA
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Quote:
"the rustoleum i have not used, but it's very simmilar to the tremclad which i think is the same as rustoleum professional."
I have been testing with the Rustoleum Stops Rust. Has anybody tested with both the Stops Rust and the Professional? If the Tremclad may be more similar to the Professional, maybe I should do some testing with the Professional.....
Any Comments??
Thanks, Mark
I would get the professional if you have a choice. Some colors aren't available (or readily available) in the professional type. I've gotten a good shine out of the red professional stuff, and im painting my car white with the stops rust stuff. I hope I can get the white to shine like the red did.
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Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
[Re: Exit1965]
#25335
08/01/06 05:24 PM
08/01/06 05:24 PM
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Quote:
hope I can get the white to shine like the red did.
You've been doing great work, very diligent and persistent. I'm sure if you let it harden sufficiently, it'll shine up just as well as the red did or better.
I ordered my Brightside at about 3 PM EST, and E Bay seller "theysoldit" has already shipped my paint ... it's scheduled for drop off at my house tomorrow ... they don't mess around! 
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Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
[Re: Marq]
#25336
08/01/06 05:27 PM
08/01/06 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Quote:
I am concerned about this uneven coloration once I get to painting. When shopping for paint supplies, I did pick up a can of the Pre-Kote Interlux Grey Primer for Brightside "just in case," with the hope that I could return it unopened. I'm not sure now. I may brush over the existing primer spots with black Brightside, sand, evaluate, then do my first full coat of black... unless I'm just making more work for myself.
The uneven coloration is something you would face with Tremclad/Rustoleum or the Brightside during the initial build up of layers. You may recall previous messages where we discussed how the paint, when applied with a roller and properly thinned is almost translucent (you can see through the layer of paint your are rolling on )
The value of the Pre-Cote at the start of the painting process would have simply provided you with a uniform colored substrate to begin with.
So, I now have all of the clearcoat (and a good deal of bascoat as well) sanded off of the hood. ( The Porter-Cable sander worked pretty good on a large flat area such as this.) After that, I went over everything once more with the 220 sanding block by hand, took care of lips, edges, and crannys, then went over every thing once again with the 320 sponge as a final pass before a solvent wipe down.
However... there are many edges that - despite careful sanding - have been sanded down to bare metal, and I am concerned about skipping the Pre-Kote primer. Otherwise, the hood is in good shape, with about only 2 *tiny* nicks that I have found that are too deep to sand out. After all, the paint does say to prime bare metal...
These spots are small, but you know how it is with edges... everything just comes right off!
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Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........
#25337
08/01/06 05:48 PM
08/01/06 05:48 PM
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Anonymous
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Get a spray bomb primer and prime the bare metal. Choose a color primer that's closest to what the rest of the car is (i.e. a black primer for a dark colored car). After it fully dries (per label instructions for that particular primer), lightly sand it with a 400 or so to blend the surface to the rest of the substrate. You'll then be good to go with your painting.
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