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Re: 505 build opinions Take 2 [Re: fast68plymouth] #2532962
08/07/18 07:45 PM
08/07/18 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted By fast68plymouth
There are plenty of 600hp 3500-3700lb street cars that won’t run a “ten”.

Wrong gears, wrong suspension, wrong tires, wrong converter, poor driving technique, etc.

And that doesn’t even take into account it may not have a good tune, or have adequate fuel delivery, etc.

Making the 600-700hp is the easy part.
The combo outlined in the opening post will easily do it.

10’s....... also relatively easy....... if no compromises to the gears, converter, tires, fuel system, etc, are involved.

Each “streetability” compromise is a bit of time added to the slip.

If every combo ran exactly what the owner thought it should, there wouldn’t be any of those “help me get my car to ET better” threads(and I wouldn’t get as many phone calls and emails along those same lines).


As an example.....GY3...... 511, cnc ported heads, roller cam...... should be pretty darn close to 600hp.
Car should be in that 3500-3700lb range....... not running 10’s.


Thanks....I think...LOL!

My car is full of compromises for the street as mentioned. Pump gas, Leaf spring suspension, really tight converter, 275 Drag radials, mechanical pump and stock tank, poor weight distribution. Hell, it still has the battery up front in the stock location!

Oddly enough it runs almost exactly (within a tenth) of what Virtual Dyno says it should!

I emphasize all the time it is NOT a racecar! It is, however, very consistent at the track and a real pleasure/comfortable to drive around town.


'63 Dodge 330
11.19 @ 121 mph
Pump gas, n/a, through the mufflers on street tires with 3.54's. 3,600 lbs.
10.01 @ 133mph with a 250 shot of nitrous an a splash of race gas. 1.36 60 ft. 3,700 lbs.

Re: 505 build opinions Take 2 [Re: MrMayhem] #2533165
08/08/18 07:43 AM
08/08/18 07:43 AM
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And thats a nice Mild 532hp/121mph street car that obviously hooks and runs within a few 1/100ths of what it should according to its 3700lbs....If it were 3500 which is what my post was about it would go 10.90's. Your street compromises do not seem to have much effect on its on track performance at all. You probably do have a few more horses under the bonnet that could be used better with a more race orientated set up however without sacrificing the driving too much but why bother when it runs so good.
60 Foot E.T. : 1.55
1/8 Mile E.T. : 7.02
1/8 Mile Trap Speed : 96.89
1/4 Mile E.T. : 11.12
1/4 Mile Trap Speed : 121

Last edited by rb446; 08/08/18 10:07 AM.

1969 'Cuda 446ci, best 9.96@133.9 in 1990
1971 340 'Cuda, best 11.01@122.8 in 1987
Re: 505 build opinions Take 2 [Re: MrMayhem] #2533211
08/08/18 11:31 AM
08/08/18 11:31 AM
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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If that thing only makes 532hp, someone did something very wrong.

When I had my 260cfm 906 headed, trw piston, 9.8:1 448 in my car, it went 10.70’s@125+, @3670lbs.
555hp right as it came out of the car.

GY3’s 511 motor should be at least 30-40hp more than my old heap.

What I had was the 5300 converter, 4.56’s, and slicks.

The calculators provide a report card on the “overall” combo, but if that combo isn’t optimized, the hp result is flawed.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: 505 build opinions Take 2 [Re: MrMayhem] #2533217
08/08/18 11:44 AM
08/08/18 11:44 AM
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I didn't say thats all it has, I'm just saying thats how much fwhp it had to pull that car to 121mph@3700lbs or was available with all those street restrictions on that day under those conditions, as I said>

"You probably do have a few more horses under the bonnet that could be used better with a more race orientated set up" ..so if he's@600hp he's losing 60hp or so to exh./electric w-pump etc., etc.

just discussin....and thats exactly what my old 446 SP bottom end junk ran, 10.71@125 with 9.8:1, 260cfm 906's@3350lbs, 4.88's, 32's, 4800 stall...539hp..6600 trap rpm.

Last edited by rb446; 08/08/18 12:04 PM.

1969 'Cuda 446ci, best 9.96@133.9 in 1990
1971 340 'Cuda, best 11.01@122.8 in 1987
Re: 505 build opinions Take 2 [Re: MrMayhem] #2533225
08/08/18 12:03 PM
08/08/18 12:03 PM
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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Quote:
..so if he's@600hp he's losing 60hp or so to exh./electric w-pump etc., etc.


Which is what the situation is “most” of the time when we’re talking street cars.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: 505 build opinions Take 2 [Re: MrMayhem] #2533227
08/08/18 12:05 PM
08/08/18 12:05 PM
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Agreed up....and I see it all the time here with race cars even, most just haven't got their chassis optimized enough, its all big lazy stroker motors with almost street gears and rubbish 60fts', apart from a few that 60 in the 1.26>1.31's@9.90, but then they run those 454 chebby motors to 7500+.....all we do is brkt racing for "fun" wink

Last edited by rb446; 08/08/18 12:15 PM.

1969 'Cuda 446ci, best 9.96@133.9 in 1990
1971 340 'Cuda, best 11.01@122.8 in 1987
Re: 505 build opinions Take 2 [Re: rb446] #2533252
08/08/18 01:01 PM
08/08/18 01:01 PM
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Let me say, too, that I've never had the perfect weekend for everything to gel together. If I have a good air, then track prep isn't there, when track prep is there it's over a hundred degrees and 4000 foot da. In really good weather earlier this year I did manage to squeeze off 102 mile an hour pass in the Eighth Mile!


'63 Dodge 330
11.19 @ 121 mph
Pump gas, n/a, through the mufflers on street tires with 3.54's. 3,600 lbs.
10.01 @ 133mph with a 250 shot of nitrous an a splash of race gas. 1.36 60 ft. 3,700 lbs.

Re: 505 build opinions Take 2 [Re: MrMayhem] #2533274
08/08/18 02:01 PM
08/08/18 02:01 PM
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I tell you what... after much thought and talk with a few folks. I'm gonna run with the cam that Hughes suggested and go from there. I know I can deal with a pretty healthy cam without much issue, I love a loud obnoxious car to boot. If it turns out that the cam makes the car unbearable to drive, like mentioned above... it's an easy fix. Then I have a cam for my next build already sitting on the shelf.

I still plan on running 3.73 gears with a built 518 overdrive trans which should put my freeway rpm around 2350 at 75 mph with a 28 inch tire. I can tolerate that easily.

Re: 505 build opinions Take 2 [Re: MrMayhem] #2533275
08/08/18 02:11 PM
08/08/18 02:11 PM
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Sounds like a nice build!!

We’ll be here when you have it done and have been to the track and can post the times.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: 505 build opinions Take 2 [Re: MrMayhem] #2533281
08/08/18 02:18 PM
08/08/18 02:18 PM
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I have a super nice zex perimeter nitrous kit up to 450HP, purge kit and blow off kit for sale all brand new...for dominator carb...it'd be amazing on your build.

Re: 505 build opinions Take 2 [Re: fast68plymouth] #2533282
08/08/18 02:19 PM
08/08/18 02:19 PM
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Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
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Originally Posted By fast68plymouth
Sounds like a nice build!!

We’ll be here when you have it done and have been to the track and can post the times.


I'm hoping by spring of 2019... I'm doing the bodywork now, I expect to have it painted by November/December. The interior is all done, just needs bolted in. Suspension is powder coated and ready for install, rear axle sitting on the floor waiting to be assembled. Lots of work but I have good help.

Re: 505 build opinions Take 2 [Re: MrMayhem] #2533305
08/08/18 02:52 PM
08/08/18 02:52 PM
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Aurora, Colorado
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Sounds OK to me. The BCR caps with Girdle are a really nice upgrade. Comes with all the hardware too. The 1/2" girdle does require you to rework most oil pickup tubes.
I haven't checked the specs, but guessing the valve springs on the Trick Flow heads would have to be changed to use the Hughes cam?

Re: 505 build opinions Take 2 [Re: MrMayhem] #2533360
08/08/18 05:09 PM
08/08/18 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted By MrMayhem
I tell you what... after much thought and talk with a few folks. I'm gonna run with the cam that Hughes suggested and go from there. I know I can deal with a pretty healthy cam without much issue, I love a loud obnoxious car to boot. If it turns out that the cam makes the car unbearable to drive, like mentioned above... it's an easy fix. Then I have a cam for my next build already sitting on the shelf.

I still plan on running 3.73 gears with a built 518 overdrive trans which should put my freeway rpm around 2350 at 75 mph with a 28 inch tire. I can tolerate that easily.


There we go, puttin on your man shoes and gettin after it......... beer biggrin You will be shredding tires at will with a carb, EFI?.......... work down


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: 505 build opinions Take 2 [Re: Thumperdart] #2533369
08/08/18 05:25 PM
08/08/18 05:25 PM
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Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
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Why the downer on EFI?

Re: 505 build opinions Take 2 [Re: MrMayhem] #2533373
08/08/18 05:28 PM
08/08/18 05:28 PM
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Cos I build and modify carbs and have for several on here and abroad........Check out my FB page below and you will understand what some never will or refuse to accept........... thumbs

Last edited by Thumperdart; 08/08/18 05:31 PM.

72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: 505 build opinions Take 2 [Re: MrMayhem] #2533432
08/08/18 07:15 PM
08/08/18 07:15 PM
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Philadelphia
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For sure some IFR restriction has gotten me great low throttle opening manners with a racy holley before. Most holleys I’ve run were pig rich with the tiny bit of throttle opening you need to keep up with grandma and cellphone soccermom in traffic with a gnarly motor. I would still go efi if I had the cash laying around.

I’m watching all these big block stroker street strip threads pretty carefully this week- good stuff! Lots of heavies have been kind enough to spend some time at the keyboard lately.

I’m building a 512 for a streetrod type truck but my goals are more mild- all I want is to surprise the local mustangs and camaros. It’s great to see all the strokers getting screwed together around here!

Re: 505 build opinions Take 2 [Re: radar] #2533531
08/08/18 11:36 PM
08/08/18 11:36 PM
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Val-haul-ass... eventually
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I guess most people wouldn't be happy limited to 65 MPH at about 3500 RPM which is what I see with 275/60R15s and 4.10s. A streetable 4200+ converter might feel a bit "slushy" on the street, but doesn't affect steady-throttle cruise RPM and certainly helps the 60-ft times when the chassis is dialed in.

It's all a tradeoff between what you're OK with while driving on the street vs what you want to see on your ET slip. I lean heavily towards the ET slip at the expense of what some people aren't willing to give up putting around on the street.

My requirements don't represent anyone else's. I mention this only because I see people set performance expectations that aren't consistent with their build descriptions and/or self-imposed constraints.

Last edited by BradH; 08/09/18 12:24 AM.
Re: 505 build opinions Take 2 [Re: MrMayhem] #2533613
08/09/18 08:29 AM
08/09/18 08:29 AM
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Exactly, when we bought the '71 340 Cuda in 1980 it was a hot street car, 3.55's, 26" Bias tyres, 3500 stall, .484hyd 750DP car, ran 13.3's all original body interior etc. I wanted to go faster and realised it wasn't going to do much more as it was so in went 4.30's, 4200 stall, big solid ft cam, 850DP, race hdrs but the same 26" tyres as at the time there was nothing taller available here, man that was hard work on the few trips down the freeway, 4000rpm@55mph, some would put up with that, I wouldn't, it drove great on the street on short trips but we gave that up as bad job and gave up driving the car to the race meetings from then on, I did the shows and the cruises by then and wanted more, ET was the most important for me and it showed..12.3's which for then was quite quick for a stock 10:1 motor, stock headed 340. You wanna go fast and keep it street-able, use a power adder, but don't expect to get that time slip with 3.23 gears and a near stock converter.

Last edited by rb446; 08/09/18 11:09 AM.

1969 'Cuda 446ci, best 9.96@133.9 in 1990
1971 340 'Cuda, best 11.01@122.8 in 1987
Re: 505 build opinions Take 2 [Re: rb446] #2533645
08/09/18 10:19 AM
08/09/18 10:19 AM
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Val-haul-ass... eventually
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FWIW, my E body weighed 3750+ with me in it the last time it was on the track scale. I haven't been running anything but stock-stroke pump-gas 440s, but the last two engine combinations were good for low 11s and mid 10s respectively. The 11-sec engine made around 540 HP and the 10-sec one cranked about 610 HP the way I ran it on the track, altough there was another 10-15 HP on the dyno while testing some parts not run as installed.

Switching to 3.55s and a 3K converter would have made it easier to drive at highway speeds, but would also have slowed the ET by around 1/2 sec. That's where those stroker bulds are supposed to help by making big torque that doesn't need the extra gear & coverter... but the combination still needs to be "right".

Re: 505 build opinions Take 2 [Re: BradH] #2533651
08/09/18 10:35 AM
08/09/18 10:35 AM
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Mt Morris Michigan
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I agree. I'm more concerned with performance than street. I do not have power brakes so the 270@50 solid flat tappet cam works real good in this 511. I use an 8" Dynamic converter refreshed by Lenny at Ultimate along with a 4.30/28" tire combo. 3000rpm at 60mph. Soon to get the 4.10 back in or maybe a 3.73 gear. You would never guess the vert is a 5100. Cruises super nice and trans temp stays at 180* while cruising. DONT skimp on your converter. A good one is about $1000. Super fun short distant car.

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