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Truck not performing as expected. Need help! Update #2519717
07/09/18 09:54 PM
07/09/18 09:54 PM
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6pakdakota Offline OP
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I just got my truck running after a head swap and header change and made it out to Milan on Sat. Listed below is the combo with before and after times.

Old combo
88 D100
10.5:1. 493
850 demon carb
Indy dual plane
346 heads with 2.14 in. 1.81 ex., mild bowl work and gasket match
1-3/4 headers
Comp xe294 hydraulic cam
Comp 1.5 roller rockers
Performer rpm fuel pump
-8an lines from cell to pump
3/8 lines from pump to carb
Manual valve body 727
Converter flashes to about 3000 rpm
4.10 8-3/4
295/65r15 drag radials

Best time 12.10 and 110mph @ about 3800lbs.
1.68 60ft

New combo is the same but with sidewinder heads with bowl work and gasket match by Marsh Performance, 2” primary headers, 3-1/2” collectors.

Best time 11.98 and 110mph @ about 3650-3700lbs. I will be putting the truck on scales tomorrow.
1.65 60ft

I thought the weight decrease alone would have put me into the 11’s and I thought I should have gained at least a little mph. The only thing I can think of is maybe the fuel filter doesn’t flow enough to keep up.

I also have a porter .600 lift 266 @ .50 solid flat tappet can to install also but I was trying to wait to finish my Dana 60 and get a new converter.

What do you guys think? Was I crazy to expect 11.60’s out of this combo?




Last edited by 6pakdakota; 10/01/18 03:01 AM.
Re: Truck not performing as expected. Need help! [Re: 6pakdakota] #2519771
07/09/18 11:30 PM
07/09/18 11:30 PM
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Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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If you can increase the jetting, fatten it up, enough to slow the MPH down in the 1/4 mile then you have enough fuel volume for your motor scope
If not, then you don't shruggy work
Not enough fuel volume has been a large part of a lot of drag cars and other drag race vehicles not performing as expected with other changes to the vehicle shock
Mine included blush shruggy


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Truck not performing as expected. Need help! [Re: 6pakdakota] #2519786
07/09/18 11:52 PM
07/09/18 11:52 PM
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MI, usa
dvw Offline
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What was the weather previously? Its been pretty brutal here this week. 300 flash stall is pretty tight.
Doug

Re: Truck not performing as expected. Need help! [Re: Cab_Burge] #2519802
07/10/18 12:15 AM
07/10/18 12:15 AM
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6pakdakota Offline OP
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Originally Posted By Cab_Burge
If you can increase the jetting, fatten it up, enough to slow the MPH down in the 1/4 mile then you have enough fuel volume for your motor scope
If not, then you don't shruggy work
Not enough fuel volume has been a large part of a lot of drag cars and other drag race vehicles not performing as expected with other changes to the vehicle shock
Mine included blush shruggy


I never thought about it like that. I am going to change the fuel filter before I take it out again, but I will definitely give that a try. Thank you.

Re: Truck not performing as expected. Need help! [Re: dvw] #2519804
07/10/18 12:17 AM
07/10/18 12:17 AM
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6pakdakota Offline OP
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Originally Posted By dvw
What was the weather previously? Its been pretty brutal here this week. 300 flash stall is pretty tight.
Doug


The previous temp was probably about 70. It was about 80 degrees last Saturday.

Re: Truck not performing as expected. Need help! [Re: 6pakdakota] #2519811
07/10/18 12:24 AM
07/10/18 12:24 AM
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6pakdakota Offline OP
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It seems to me that I am losing about 100hp somewhere.

Last edited by 6pakdakota; 07/10/18 03:43 AM.
Re: Truck not performing as expected. Need help! [Re: 6pakdakota] #2519855
07/10/18 03:02 AM
07/10/18 03:02 AM
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Cotati, CA
Dave Hall Offline
top fuel
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You can jet it a step at a time like Cab says until it slows then obviously take it back a notch. I think your mph didn't do anything because you didn't change the cam with the heads. Basically you just made the engine more efficient but a decent cam will really wake it up. When you change the cam then the converter your expectations will probably happen. Weight and brick shape are hard to overcome. Cool though!

Re: Truck not performing as expected. Need help! [Re: 6pakdakota] #2519891
07/10/18 10:19 AM
07/10/18 10:19 AM
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Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda Offline
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Pretty much agree w/ everyone else...the weather likely had a lot to do w/ it. I'd bet it'd be at least a tenth quicker in the same weather you ran the 12.10 in previously.
The new cam along w/ a looser converter will def. wake it up.


CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
Re: Truck not performing as expected. Need help! [Re: 6pakdakota] #2519906
07/10/18 10:55 AM
07/10/18 10:55 AM
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Arlington, Texas
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bobby66 Offline
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Put a fuel pressure gauge on it to make sure you have enough fuel to feed that monster.

Re: Truck not performing as expected. Need help! [Re: 6pakdakota] #2519937
07/10/18 11:43 AM
07/10/18 11:43 AM
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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fast68plymouth Offline
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I wouldn’t be surprised if the lifters are giving up at whatever rpm 110mph is.

I’d schedule a few pulls on a local chassis dyno.

The 60’ is soft if you’re looking to get into that mid-11 zone.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: Truck not performing as expected. Need help! [Re: 6pakdakota] #2519964
07/10/18 12:54 PM
07/10/18 12:54 PM
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Georgia
66coronet Offline
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That mechanical pump setup is not going to give you a ton of volume or pressure. That said, I think your cam, converter and gear are holding you back more than anything. 3800lbs with that .520 lift cam and 4.10 gear on a 30 inch tall tire aren't going to make a ton of steam in my opinion.

Re: Truck not performing as expected. Need help! [Re: 6pakdakota] #2519966
07/10/18 01:06 PM
07/10/18 01:06 PM
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6pakdakota Offline OP
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It will be going on the scales at work tonight. I will update later. Hopefully I can get out to the track in a week or two to verify I am getting enough fuel. If I am, do you guys think putting the new cam in before I get the converter will hurt performance at the track?

Last edited by 6pakdakota; 07/10/18 01:06 PM.
Re: Truck not performing as expected. Need help! [Re: 6pakdakota] #2519976
07/10/18 01:34 PM
07/10/18 01:34 PM
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Michigan
MarkZ Offline
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Nothing of a technical nature to add, but damn, I love that truck. That's bad ass.


1987 Fifth Avenue - 512/518/D60
Re: Truck not performing as expected. Need help! [Re: MarkZ] #2519991
07/10/18 02:08 PM
07/10/18 02:08 PM
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ZIPPY Offline
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Originally Posted By MarkM
Nothing of a technical nature to add, but damn, I love that truck. That's bad ass.


iagree

That thing is super cool.

If you decide to go the chassis dyno route, Jake's has a pretty nice one + alot of experience to go with it.


Rich H.

Esse Quam Videri




Re: Truck not performing as expected. Need help! [Re: 6pakdakota] #2520017
07/10/18 03:00 PM
07/10/18 03:00 PM
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Georgia
66coronet Offline
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Something else to think on.
Had your old heads been cut or surfaced? You have an aluminum head that if I remember right has a big chamber. Like 84 maybe? If you have added chamber and gone to aluminum which in theory costs you a little compression, you have gone backwards in compression.

Re: Truck not performing as expected. Need help! [Re: 6pakdakota] #2520050
07/10/18 04:13 PM
07/10/18 04:13 PM
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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fast68plymouth Offline
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The new cam and the 3000 stall won’t play very well together.

In fact, I wouldn’t consider the current 250@.050 hyd cam and the 3000 converter to be a very good match.

I’m sure that’s a lot(most?) of why the 60’ is a bit soft.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: Truck not performing as expected. Need help! [Re: 6pakdakota] #2520377
07/11/18 05:24 AM
07/11/18 05:24 AM
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michigan
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6pakdakota Offline OP
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I just got the Truck off of the scales. 3340lbs without me and 3600 at race weight. It was actually a little bit lighter than I expected. I also got everything to upgrade the fuel system from the pump to the carb. Hopefully I can do some testing and tuning here shortly. I really need to get the new converter so I can install the cam😁

Re: Truck not performing as expected. Need help! [Re: 6pakdakota] #2520385
07/11/18 09:07 AM
07/11/18 09:07 AM
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Metro Detroit
OUTLAWD Offline
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A lightweight!

I think the weather had to contribute a decent amount, and will agree with the others that the converter is too tight.

I have a similar mild 493 in my Plymouth, the 9.5" converter flashes to ~4400. Even the old off the shelf 10" "3000 stall" flashed to ~4k. I normally run 3.55's and a 28" tire and weigh 3700 lb at the line.


Faster, Faster until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death...

71 Swinger - slowly collecting dust/parts
66 Belv. II - just a streetcar
88 Mustang - turbo LS beater
Re: Truck not performing as expected. Need help! [Re: OUTLAWD] #2520394
07/11/18 09:53 AM
07/11/18 09:53 AM
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6pakdakota Offline OP
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Originally Posted By OUTLAWD
A lightweight!

I think the weather had to contribute a decent amount, and will agree with the others that the converter is too tight.

I have a similar mild 493 in my Plymouth, the 9.5" converter flashes to ~4400. Even the old off the shelf 10" "3000 stall" flashed to ~4k. I normally run 3.55's and a 28" tire and weigh 3700 lb at the line.


It is pretty light for an all steel 1/2 ton truck. Lol. What is your combo and what does it run? If you don’t mind me asking.

Re: Truck not performing as expected. Need help! [Re: 6pakdakota] #2520437
07/11/18 11:42 AM
07/11/18 11:42 AM
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Posts: 14,496
So. Burlington, Vt.
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fast68plymouth Offline
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Just a little tidbit...... and you may already be aware of this.......

But the fuel level setting on those demons isn’t like the old holleys(bottom of the hole).
I usually run those with the fuel sitting about 2/3 up the sight glass, set with the engine running.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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