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Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........ [Re: Exit1965] #24878
06/30/06 07:36 AM
06/30/06 07:36 AM

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Exit, you're killing me man! You must be one crazy perfectionist, your car was looking great in red. However, I know that wasn't your first choice in colors so I understand. And I knew you were up to something because you were keeping pretty quiet, I actually wondered if you were switching colors.

As for Grassroots Motorsports, I post over there and actually found this thread when another GRM member posted it on our board. I'm surprised it didn't generated the same kind of buzz over there. Maybe there are more like me though, following it closely over here.

Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........ [Re: Marq] #24879
06/30/06 08:31 AM
06/30/06 08:31 AM

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Thanks much for your help. I'm not sure what my parents are hung up on more that I might get paint on there garage floor in drips or that the color might fade.

Either way a friend and I are going to try to get the paint from a marine store this weekend. The royal blue I have been painting with isn't the perfect color for me but it was close enough. I'm going to try one of them. So far I have the fenders, ground fx's, and spoiler done. But I'm sure they are easy to reroll.

My dad's been complaining because he likes the car in red. Says I shoudl live with the rust and if I wanted it in blue kept searching around (only they didn't make a 2g eclipse spyder convertible in blue!). I had a black one last year that I lived with the color. I had an accident this winter and grabed the first 2g 5 speed turbo model convertible of it I could find. They get even more rare in the spring time usually. Unfortunately it's red, has keymarks down the one side and a bunch of rust on the hood.

Pictures by monday hopefully!

Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........ #24880
06/30/06 10:12 AM
06/30/06 10:12 AM
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I won't be able to get any pics of my car with the Brightside paint posted until at least Saturday.

But I did find three pics of a Camaro that was JUST FINISHED and had been painted with Brightside 'yellow'... and hopefully that will show you what the paint looks like on a car... The guy mentioned that this was after THREE COATS of Brightside. That he had wetsanded between each coat. And that these pics were taken BEFORE ANY FINISH BUFFING OR POLISHING...












That is one nasty looking high gloss !

.

Last edited by Marq; 06/30/06 10:37 AM.
Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........ #24881
06/30/06 10:14 AM
06/30/06 10:14 AM
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69chargeryeehaa Offline OP
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Marq - i actually have used that brightside paint about 6yrs ago to paint a old sail boat (14'), and did find it to be very good paint. the only reason why i use the tremclad is the cost, and the benifit of rust-inhibiting, and that i'm 100% confortable with using it, and know the paint will hold up for a really long time. my sail boat was prepped properlly, and the paint lasted about 2 yrs and then went to poop on that sail boat, granted it was exposed to the elements all year round, this was at the cottage. it basically recieved no attention, cleaning, or waxing, so it's not a fair comparison to it's potential longevity. it was great paint to work with. i'm really happy with the shine of the tremclad, it is just as good if not better than the original paint on these cars - enamel. plus enamel is known for it's durability. i've had no fade issues on my beetle for 6yrs, all i do is wax the car every year, but it does'nt see any winter driving. i basically stubmled accross this method when i was really poor, and my first car (85 honda crx) needed paint bad. i painted the car in 2 days, including body work, tremclad gloss black, and the car looked awesome, and lasted 3 years thru canadian winters and salt, and in access of 400,000kms (about 250,000mi)!!! yes, i drove the snot out of that car, and the tremclad black still looked great for a 2 day job. I'm sticking with the tremclad, just because i know how the paint behaves, and i know how to work with it and get really good results. if i wasn't happy with the shine/durability i would use and expirement with other paints, but for me i'm 100% happy, plus if you hit the paint with a buffer every year for an hour it will look just like the day you painted it. i have yet to buff my 74 beetle, i'm actually thinking about re-doing the 74 beetle, just deciding on color, and i might try the clear coat, i want to do a PERFECT job on the 74 bug, because it's small and easy to do, when i'm done with it, it will be show quality paint, lots of hours wetsanding. i actually just did the orange really quick because i wanted to see what it would look like, it's the original color, i'm thinking something blue because that's my favorite color, besides orange .

i'm actually thinking about building a stroker (200+hp in a 1300lb car = )for my 74 beetle, race trans, porsche fuch rims, also considering snail power ect.....so i want a killer paint job, it's going to be a winter project, since i'm driving the car alot (espically with the gas prices) and it will probabally take me 6 months to decide on a color!!!

here's a pic of the car (74 beetle painted in 2000, tremclad "real orange"):




Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........ [Re: 69chargeryeehaa] #24882
06/30/06 10:35 AM
06/30/06 10:35 AM
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here's a some pics of my 85 crx i just scanned, it was painted about 14yrs ago, with the help of my now wife, with some left over paint my dad used to paint the house (notice the cottage in the backround; tremclad was used to paint the doors, and 2-door wood, still looks good!!!) my dad was mad i used all his paint, and rollers , she did the hard to reach areas with the foam brush, and i used the roller, it's about 3 coats, perty heavy coats, no wetsanding/buffing at all between coats or after!!!!! i miss that car alot, it died a respectable death, and served me well, i don't want to talk about it




Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........ [Re: 69chargeryeehaa] #24883
06/30/06 10:56 AM
06/30/06 10:56 AM

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I painted coat number 9 last night of Safety Red on the buggy. This morning, I pushed it outside and took these shots. I'm letting it bake in the sun today (well, what sun it CAN get with all those trees in the yard). I'm stoked... I can't wait till it fully cures so I can hit it with the buffer.

front - before final wetsand
side - before final wetsand

BTW, Marq... that yellow looks awesome on that camaro. Serious shineage. If I'm not happy with the Rusto way, I'm glad to see I have an alternative. Right now... I'm ready to slap this thing back on the road and drive it.

Charger, I'm considering a winter performance engine/tranny build for the buggy, too.

Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........ [Re: 69chargeryeehaa] #24884
06/30/06 11:22 AM
06/30/06 11:22 AM

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One caution about polyurethanes- I did a test using Varathane Colours which I believe may be a polyurethane paint - they call it“plastic enamel” on the can and they say it can be used for marine applications which I would guess means boats. I found that it covered well and was smooth but two weeks later it was still soft and would gum up the sandpaper when I tried to wet sand it. I gave up on the product.

I ran into some problems with my latest (third) coat of paint. Some patches dried before the bubbles had time to dissolve and have left me with a pimpled surface. I am knocking them off with 400 grit easily enough but I don’t want this to happen again. Am I using too much or too little thinner? Right now I am using a measured 16% mineral spirits (6:1).

Tip: I found a measured shot glass in the garage I use for measuring pesticides. I marked some disposable cups at ¾ cup (6oz) and I measure out the mineral spirits using the shot glass. Gives me a very accurate way to measure out the paint.

Yesterday I had the car baking out in the sun when we were hit with a number of thunderstorms. The hail was very intense at one point. I have attached a photo. The paint is Tremclad Dark Blue BTW.

2734597-hailstorm.JPG (783 downloads)
Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........ #24885
06/30/06 11:32 AM
06/30/06 11:32 AM

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Just in case anybody was wondering how much the Marine paint is I called a Marine supplier. $39 Cdn a quart for the one part ( Brightside ) and the two part is $79 Cdn a quart.

I paid $12 for the Tremclad.

Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........ #24886
06/30/06 11:41 AM
06/30/06 11:41 AM

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Senna, I had more issues with bubbles last night than previously. I had mixed up a bit of a thicker concoction of paint for my final coat. It took me about a half hour longer to apply this coat because I had to do the light pressure roller technique over and over on the sections to get the bubbles to lay down. I have had more luck comparing the resulting mixture with known consistencies (ie. 2% milk, whole milk, creamer) than measuring exact ratios.

My earlier coats where the bubbles ALWAYS popped automatically was with the 2% milk consistency. Last night, the bubbly coat, was more of a creamer consistency. I don't know if this helps anyone, but...

Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........ #24887
06/30/06 12:06 PM
06/30/06 12:06 PM
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Quote:


One caution about polyurethanes- I did a test using Varathane Colours which I believe may be a polyurethane paint - they call it“plastic enamel” on the can and they say it can be used for marine applications which I would guess means boats. I found that it covered well and was smooth but two weeks later it was still soft and would gum up the sandpaper when I tried to wet sand it. I gave up on the product.





Nah... the Varathane is a different animal totally. But I will agree with you.. Varathane tends to stay SOFT. It never quite hardens to the level where it could resist finger nail digging or even the brushes at the carwash..

I just finished the first wetsanding of my BRIGHTSIDE paint job The car had sat in the garage curing for about 12 hours. The paint was HARD and it sanded EASILY. The 1200 grit paper I was using did not gum up at all.

.

Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........ #24888
06/30/06 12:15 PM
06/30/06 12:15 PM
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Quote:



Just in case anybody was wondering how much the Marine paint is I called a Marine supplier. $39 Cdn a quart for the one part ( Brightside ) and the two part is $79 Cdn a quart.

I paid $12 for the Tremclad.






I think paying a slightly higher cost for your paint might prove to be money well spent. I provided a number of reasons in a previous message that explain why you might want to pay a few buck more at the start.

But I don't think anyone needs to push their wallet to the PERFECTION paint two stage paint at $79... Even the boaters all tended to agree that the BRIGHTSIDE did the job and was easier to use. The only comments that I read in support of the PERFECTION is that it tends to give 'an even harder finish' then BRIGHTSIDE. But then the boaters would all say that AWLGrip is even harder... oh well.. I never saw any argument in support of PERFECTION 2 part that could convince me to use it over Brightside.

Just remember the words of the FRAM Oil Filter man... " you can pay me now... or you can pay later... ".

.

Last edited by Marq; 06/30/06 12:19 PM.
Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........ #24889
06/30/06 12:52 PM
06/30/06 12:52 PM

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Quote:

Senna, I had more issues with bubbles last night than previously. I had mixed up a bit of a thicker concoction of paint for my final coat. It took me about a half hour longer to apply this coat because I had to do the light pressure roller technique over and over on the sections to get the bubbles to lay down. I have had more luck comparing the resulting mixture with known consistencies (ie. 2% milk, whole milk, creamer) than measuring exact ratios.

My earlier coats where the bubbles ALWAYS popped automatically was with the 2% milk consistency. Last night, the bubbly coat, was more of a creamer consistency. I don't know if this helps anyone, but...







^^^ I agree, its way better to have a visual reference than a ratio. I go by a 1% milk consistancy. Its slightly thicker than water. I had to sand after my 3rd coat too with 400 grit because I was letting orange peel get the best of me. Since then, I have gone with the 1% milk mixture and have had zero problems with bubbles or drips.

I am at the point where I just kinda splash som spirits and call it good. Experience definately helps this process. I paint sooo much better and faster now that I am comfortable with the technique.

I would say to try one of the consistencies listed above and roll slow enough that the roller stays flat. Take your time because thats the only way you will be happy with the results. Go over 30-1 minute after rolling an area with no extra paint on roller and hold the roller like you would a paint brush, very light. As stated before, letthe weight and only the weight take away the bubbles.

Goodluck!

Last edited by Sideglide; 06/30/06 12:53 PM.
Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........ #24890
06/30/06 01:49 PM
06/30/06 01:49 PM
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Just wanted to say again how awesome this topic is. This technique is definately becoming more known and already has a cult following, and it can only keep getting better as we experiment with different paints and tweaking the methods here and there.

Speaking of experimenting, I picked up some rustoleum crystal clear spray at walmart today. I'm going to try it out over the safety red I sprayed on my test door. I wetsanded with 2000, and I'm just about to put a couple coats of the crystal clear on it. It says "recoat anytime" so I will probably put a couple thin coats on over a few minutes.. pics to come..

Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........ [Re: Exit1965] #24891
06/30/06 02:23 PM
06/30/06 02:23 PM
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exit - i'm actually able to make a diagnosis about your condition, it's stumped me until now, but i just looked it up in my medical index and sure enough it's as clear as day. you suffer from a rare condition, only diagnosed by 2 other people - "chronic experimentation complex"; definition: one who chronically must experiment, results are made from unobtanium, a result that can never be reached; to never finish a project before starting over. see your doctor, there is help, you CAN lead a normal life with the right therapy and drugs, i don't know i'm a rocket scientist, not a doctor!!!! haha sorry i couldn't resist, all in good fun, i wanted to see your red all done in the sun, you could have at least taken a pic.


Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........ [Re: 69chargeryeehaa] #24892
06/30/06 02:49 PM
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So the information on the BRIGHTSIDES by Marq peaked my interest so I started some searching on the web.

Found a guy (Tim Lackey) that painted his boat with Brightsides in March/April of '99. I asked about durability, gloss retention, etc. Here is what he wrote back to me:

<<I have experience with Brightsides. It is fairly durable, but is
nowhere near as colorfast as Awlgrip. Dark colors begin to lose their depth
after a couple years, and the high gloss that is present immediately after
application tends to lessen after a year or so. The finish becomes more of
a satin-type gloss--still glossy, but not with the intense depth and shine.
As a result, I think Brightsides is more successful in lighter colors.

For what it is, Brightsides is pretty decent paint. But it won't hold up as
successfully as Awlgrip.
>>

So... just a little more food for thought. Haven't looked into Awlgrip, but seeing that Marq mentioned it too, that might be something to look into.

Nevertheless I love the experimentation and the DIY attitude displayed with this technique. Kudos to everyone in the process.

For me, until I get some better info on marine paint, think I am still leaning towards Rusto because of availability, price, and availability of spray cans for hard to reach places (door jambs, engine bay, etc).

Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........ [Re: 69chargeryeehaa] #24893
06/30/06 03:16 PM
06/30/06 03:16 PM
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Quote:

exit - i'm actually able to make a diagnosis about your condition, it's stumped me until now, but i just looked it up in my medical index and sure enough it's as clear as day. you suffer from a rare condition, only diagnosed by 2 other people - "chronic experimentation complex"; definition: one who chronically must experiment, results are made from unobtanium, a result that can never be reached; to never finish a project before starting over. see your doctor, there is help, you CAN lead a normal life with the right therapy and drugs, i don't know i'm a rocket scientist, not a doctor!!!! haha sorry i couldn't resist, all in good fun, i wanted to see your red all done in the sun, you could have at least taken a pic.






Thanks for the diagnosis, Doc. Where do I send my check?

Actually I stuck with the red a bit longer just because I didn't want the paint to "win"- so I got it to shine successfully, then painted over it.

It's totally about the color.. I'm just not a red car guy, but I thought I'd try something different with the dart, until I pictured driving around in it, then I had to make it a more subdued color.

If you want a pic of it in the sun, just look at the pics of the buggy in the same color.

And yes I am a chronic experimenter, and if I wasn't I'd be out of a job, so I can't stop now.

The experiment with the clear coat turned out bad. Spraying alone led to lots of orange peel, terrible orange peel in fact. The regular color never had orange peel like that. I'll let it dry real good then wetsand and polish it but I think you're on to something when you say the shine should be very close with just the paint alone, and easier to deal with.

Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........ [Re: Exit1965] #24894
06/30/06 03:51 PM
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i agree, for all the work i'm not so sure the clear will help, espically the spray version, you would love the liquid brush grade tremclad clear stuff, i've used it on a new brass mailbox, stuff like that and it does shine extreemly well, sands nice, ect...but then the paint is "sealed" and touchups are hard, ect... the tremclad clear coat is the perfect thickness, and just needs a "splash" of laquir thinner. i liked the red on your dart, but i agree, i'm not a red car guy. have you given some thought to orange? or like a sublime green??
i'd say stick with the light colors, white is eaisest, and on a dart would look great. perhaps blue? so your going back to the "almond" like color?

Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........ [Re: 69chargeryeehaa] #24895
06/30/06 04:36 PM
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Quote:

i agree, for all the work i'm not so sure the clear will help, espically the spray version, you would love the liquid brush grade tremclad clear stuff, i've used it on a new brass mailbox, stuff like that and it does shine extreemly well, sands nice, ect...but then the paint is "sealed" and touchups are hard, ect... the tremclad clear coat is the perfect thickness, and just needs a "splash" of laquir thinner. i liked the red on your dart, but i agree, i'm not a red car guy. have you given some thought to orange? or like a sublime green??
i'd say stick with the light colors, white is eaisest, and on a dart would look great. perhaps blue? so your going back to the "almond" like color?




It's called Canvas white. Hopefully a couple more coats and the true color will be visible. Here's a tractor painted with the stuff:


Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........ #24896
06/30/06 06:44 PM
06/30/06 06:44 PM
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Quote:



For what it is, Brightsides is pretty decent paint. But it won't hold up as
successfully as Awlgrip.
>>

So... just a little more food for thought. Haven't looked into Awlgrip, but seeing that Marq mentioned it too, that might be something to look into.






From what I gathered as I surfed the various boater message boards, the discussions comparing Brightside versus AWLGrip reminded me a lot of folks arguing about their preference for Coke versus Pepsi.

The only real difference that tended to come out of the discussions was that :
a) AWLGrip cost much more then Brightside.
b) AWLGrip was argued to be 'harder' when fully cured than Brightside.
c) Brightside was considered easier to apply for the 'Do It Yourselfer'
d) Brightside was considered far more forgiving and self-correcting
e) AWLGrip delivered its best performance and appearance when SPRAYED...

Possibly AWLGrip may become the 'third' step up in our selection of potential paints for doing budget home paint jobs

I just wasn't ready to part with the cash that it would have cost to experiment with the AWLGrip.

Neither paint was the clear winner in the boater discussions and arguments for each were fairly strong. In the end it all reminded me of folks arguing about Coke and Pepsi

Possibly the Rustoleum / Tremclad would be the RC Cola in their discussions...

Based on everything that I read... I do have the feeling that MOST boaters would 'prefer' to have AWLGrip on their boats - but COST seems to be the deciding factor that ultimately persuaded them to make use of Brightside. And that reminded me of people who like SONY televisions... but are willing to settle for Panasonics because the quality is similar - but the others are all 'cheaper' costwise compared to the Sony.

.

Last edited by Marq; 06/30/06 06:50 PM.
Re: Paint job on a budget!? CONTINUED..page 44........ [Re: Exit1965] #24897
06/30/06 08:05 PM
06/30/06 08:05 PM

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I just joined the site (sorry don't have a MOPAR unless my Dodge Ram counts) and one of the only reasons I joined was due to this thread. I found out about it from the ClassicBroncos site.

Thank you for all the invaluable info. I started reading the entire topic about 2 weeks ago and then tried it out for myself.

EXIT, your paint job looked amazing and caused me to pick the same color. I have just finished the one door (in case it did not turn out too well) but I will start on the rest of the truck this weekend (1970 Ford Bronco). I am very happy with the results. The pictures are with the 6 coats per the original instructions and I have yet to wetsand and polish the final coat. I figure I will wait until I finish with the rest of the truck and then wetsand the final coat on the whle truck at the same time.

Thanks again for this tip and keep up the great progress. One of the best threads I have read in a while.

Bill

2735576-DSCN0333.JPG (710 downloads)
Last edited by 70EB; 07/01/06 07:37 AM.
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