Re: Timing marks not lining up
[Re: 440mopar]
#2486917
04/23/18 06:10 PM
04/23/18 06:10 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,385 Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,385
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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Are you sure it's at true TDC? The piston will hang up at TDC for a lil bit as the crank turns. Really need to put a degree wheel on it to find true TDC and then see where your timing mark is.
CHIP '70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60 '71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75 '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75 '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: Timing marks not lining up
[Re: an8sec70cuda]
#2486929
04/23/18 06:33 PM
04/23/18 06:33 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,197 PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,197
PA.
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You really need a dial indicator to do it right. Then if needed make a NEW TDC (zero) timing mark. I do this often.
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: Timing marks not lining up
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#2486933
04/23/18 06:37 PM
04/23/18 06:37 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,385 Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,385
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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I should have said dial indicator also. Need both to do it.
CHIP '70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60 '71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75 '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75 '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: Timing marks not lining up
[Re: John_Kunkel]
#2486945
04/23/18 07:24 PM
04/23/18 07:24 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,118 Byron, NY
W.I.N. Racing
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,118
Byron, NY
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A dial indicator is the wrong tool to determine true TDC because the piston hangs for a few degrees at TDC... Really??? so if I take an indicator and run the piston up CCW until lets say .050" before TDC and then CW 'til .050" before TDC I wont get the same results??? Odd...
'01 P1500, Blown/Inj BAE,/Veney ,Bruno/CS2,Dana 60 '01 Dodge 3500 S Cummins Auto, Fresh air kit, 4" Exhaust, '05 Dodge Magnum R/T - Too Much to list '60 Willys CJ5 '01 International LPX - Project,DT466, Allison '64 Plymouth Valiant, Inj 528 Hemi, 2spd
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Re: Timing marks not lining up
[Re: dogdays]
#2486946
04/23/18 07:28 PM
04/23/18 07:28 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,197 PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,197
PA.
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Back to basics, dudes!
All you really need is a piston stop, a pencil and a tape measure. You do not need to have degreed in the cam. That's a topic for another instruction.
Install the piston stop Turn the crank until piston runs into stop. With the pencil mark where the pointer is pointing. Now turn the engine around the other way until you run into the piston stop. Mark where the pointer is pointing. Now use the tape measure to measure between the two marks. Calculate exactly half the distance. The halfway point between your two marks is TDC. I'm hoping your Zero mark is halfway between those two marks.
Piston stop? Strap metal, three holes, three bolts and two nuts. You can make it for very little $. No need for anything fancier than this.
R. I'm sorry dude but why worry about timing marks if the cam is not degreed in. Its time for this guy to step back and either take over the build or request help if needed. Its sounds like he should request help to me or do some reading and research. We all learn if we WANT to.
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: Timing marks not lining up
[Re: 440mopar]
#2486961
04/23/18 08:34 PM
04/23/18 08:34 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,292 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,292
Bend,OR USA
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Ma Mopar has used several different BB timing covers over the years and the same on the balancers, they need to be made for each other to align the timing marks correctly You did good catching this I have not used a 400 timing cover yet so I can't tell you what is wrong, I have bought several of the cheaper Powerforce plus SFI rated BB balancers that Summit sells to use on Hi Po pump gas street motors recently and they both had two sets of zero timing marks on them, does yours? As already said to determine exactly where TDC is you need to know exactly where that is, I use a dial indicator on the piston tops in the center of the pistons on most of my builds to degree the cams in and I will occasionally use a piston stop also to verify how close I came to being perfect on the TDC marks on the dampener and timing cover after the balancer is on I do also use the dial indicator on the #6 piston at TDC before installing the heads to verify the dampener zero mark aligning with the zero mark on the timing cover IHTHs
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 04/23/18 08:38 PM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Timing marks not lining up
[Re: 440mopar]
#2487053
04/24/18 12:02 AM
04/24/18 12:02 AM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,692 Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
Mr. Helpful
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Mr. Helpful
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,692
Fulton County, PA
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Locate TDC on the degree wheel and degree the cam. Put the timing cover and the damper on and recheck TDC on the damper. Correct as needed. Do all this before the heads go on so you can use your dial indicator to locate TDC. I would only use a positive stop if I had to because the heads were on it.
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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Re: Timing marks not lining up
[Re: CMcAllister]
#2487055
04/24/18 12:13 AM
04/24/18 12:13 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,197 PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,197
PA.
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Locate TDC on the degree wheel and degree the cam. Put the timing cover and the damper on and recheck TDC on the damper. Correct as needed. Do all this before the heads go on so you can use your dial indicator to locate TDC. I would only use a positive stop if I had to because the heads were on it. This works for me too.
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: Timing marks not lining up
[Re: qwkmopardan]
#2487072
04/24/18 12:31 AM
04/24/18 12:31 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,197 PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,197
PA.
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If the balancer isn't messed up now it probably will be after a few outings. I put one of those on a s.b. mopar, and in a month the mark was about 90* off. I put an ATI balancer and no more problem. My Son and I both spun that damper too and back then we were only shifting at 6400 RPM. More junk for the junk pile.
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: Timing marks not lining up
[Re: W.I.N. Racing]
#2487179
04/24/18 11:10 AM
04/24/18 11:10 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,385 Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,385
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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A dial indicator is the wrong tool to determine true TDC because the piston hangs for a few degrees at TDC... Really??? so if I take an indicator and run the piston up CCW until lets say .050" before TDC and then CW 'til .050" before TDC I wont get the same results??? Odd... A dial indicator combined w/ a degree wheel will let you accurately find true TDC. There are a few ways to do this, all work equally well, but saying one isn't right is foolish. Piston stop and tape measure, piston stop and degree wheel, dial indicator and degree wheel, etc. all will work.
CHIP '70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60 '71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75 '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75 '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: Timing marks not lining up
[Re: qwkmopardan]
#2487311
04/24/18 02:49 PM
04/24/18 02:49 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,692 Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
Mr. Helpful
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Mr. Helpful
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,692
Fulton County, PA
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If the balancer isn't messed up now it probably will be after a few outings. I put one of those on a s.b. mopar, and in a month the mark was about 90* off. I put an ATI balancer and no more problem. I would only use an ATI, but for reference in case someone drags one in here, who's grenade of a damper does that?
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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