Timing marks not lining up

I was having a 470 stroker built for my Dart last fall and before the guy helping me build it (a relative) and I could finish it he passed away. Before he passed we had installed the crank, rods, pistons, cam and timing chain. I haven't touched it since he passed but would like to get out in the garage and try and get it finished. Not sure if I can do the remaining work on my own or not but that's another matter. For now I have a question about the timing marks on the timing cover and on the damper. With the #1 piston up to where it is flush with the surface of the head, when installing the balancer on the crank the timing marks don't line up. The TDC mark on the balancer is aligned with the 10 degrees BTDC mark on the timing cover. I am using the stock 400 timing cover that was originally on the motor and a Summit C-4279 damper. Is something installed incorrectly, am I using the wrong damper or is this typical of aftermarket dampers?

Are you sure it's at true TDC? The piston will hang up at TDC for a lil bit as the crank turns. Really need to put a degree wheel on it to find true TDC and then see where your timing mark is.

You really need a dial indicator to do it right. Then if needed make a NEW TDC (zero) timing mark. I do this often.

Is the cam degreed in?

I should have said dial indicator also. Need both to do it.

Back to basics, dudes!

All you really need is a piston stop, a pencil and a tape measure. You do not need to have degreed in the cam. That's a topic for another instruction.

Install the piston stop Turn the crank until piston runs into stop. With the pencil mark where the pointer is pointing. Now turn the engine around the other way until you run into the piston stop. Mark where the pointer is pointing. Now use the tape measure to measure between the two marks. Calculate exactly half the distance. The halfway point between your two marks is TDC. I'm hoping your Zero mark is halfway between those two marks.

Piston stop? Strap metal, three holes, three bolts and two nuts. You can make it for very little $. No need for anything fancier than this.

R.

A dial indicator is the wrong tool to determine true TDC because the piston hangs for a few degrees at TDC...a piston stop is the correct tool.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RENhHI9n65I

Really???
so if I take an indicator and run the piston up CCW until lets say .050" before TDC and then CW 'til .050" before TDC I wont get the same results???
Odd...

I'm sorry dude but why worry about timing marks if the cam is not degreed in. Its time for this guy to step back and either take over the build or request help if needed. Its sounds like he should request help to me or do some reading and research. We all learn if we WANT to.

Ma Mopar has used several different BB timing covers over the years and the same on the balancers, they need to be made for each other to align the timing marks correctly
You did good catching this
I have not used a 400 timing cover yet so I can't tell you what is wrong, I have bought several of the cheaper Powerforce plus SFI rated BB balancers that Summit sells to use on Hi Po pump gas street motors recently and they both had two sets of zero timing marks on them, does yours?
As already said to determine exactly where TDC is you need to know exactly where that is, I use a dial indicator on the piston tops in the center of the pistons on most of my builds to degree the cams in and I will occasionally use a piston stop also to verify how close I came to being perfect on the TDC marks on the dampener and timing cover after the balancer is on
I do also use the dial indicator on the #6 piston at TDC before installing the heads to verify the dampener zero mark aligning with the zero mark on the timing cover
IHTHs

It is fairly common with inexpensive aftermarket parts for the marks to not line up. Typically if you use the higher dollar stuff like an ATI damper and a high quality stroker kit the marks will align.

It isn't a serious problem but you need to sort it out. A piston stop and some timing tape is a good way to figure it out. If your damper is fully degreed then you don't need the timing tape.

Piston stop is easy and is the 1st step. Once you have TDC either move the timing mark or remark the balancer. Then was the cam degreed? If not that would be the next step. Whether you do it yourself or get someone to help.
Doug

Locate TDC on the degree wheel and degree the cam. Put the timing cover and the damper on and recheck TDC on the damper. Correct as needed. Do all this before the heads go on so you can use your dial indicator to locate TDC. I would only use a positive stop if I had to because the heads were on it.

This works for me too.

If the balancer isn't messed up now it probably will be after a few outings. I put one of those on a s.b. mopar, and in a month the mark was about 90* off. I put an ATI balancer and no more problem.

My Son and I both spun that damper too and back then we were only shifting at 6400 RPM. More junk for the junk pile.

A dial indicator combined w/ a degree wheel will let you accurately find true TDC.
There are a few ways to do this, all work equally well, but saying one isn't right is foolish.
Piston stop and tape measure, piston stop and degree wheel, dial indicator and degree wheel, etc. all will work.

A friend of mine has a dial indicator and he brought it over last night. Problem solved.

When assembling my motor last week I decided to test piston stop vs .050 before/.050 after with the dial indicator. Both read exactly the same.
Doug

I would only use an ATI, but for reference in case someone drags one in here, who's grenade of a damper does that?

I had a BHJ damper on a 440 years ago that slipped the outer ring about an inch. Took it off and sent it back to BHJ...they fixed/replaced it but no one there would talk to me afterwards about an explanation. Been using ATI dampers since, w/ the exception of one Fluidamper that has also been a good piece.

This^^^^^can't degree the cam without first know this...

Perhaps, but the positive stop eliminates the possibility of inaccurate readings due to piston rock.

This is sort of a separate question, but still related.....

Is the crank keyway slot always machined in the identical
indexed position on all cranks ? Meaning that, can you not tell
if the dampener ring has slipped just by looking at where
the "0" mark is on the dampener in relation to the keyway
slot ?

Also, if the front cover and timing pointer are all assembled,
so you can't see the crank keyway slot,
then with the piston at TDC exactly, should not the timing mark
on the dampener also be right on the "0" timing pointer ?
On a fresh factory motor that is.

What I'm getting at is visual tools to see if the dampener
has spun, without measuring.

The keyway is many times, in line with forwardmost cylinder centerline. That is like at 1;30 clock on our v-8's when at tdc cyl # 1 and 6..

if a head or heads are already on, set the dampener slit at 15BTDC & screw the TDC tool into the #1 or #6 plug hole till it contacts the piston snug, then turn the crank CCW till it contacts the stop again & if no slip/bad machining of dampener (somewhat rare) or even crank keyway machined off (rare tho) & yes it is at 1:30, you want the slit to be at 15 ATDC. repeat one time to confirm it is equidistant, same # of degrees on either side of "zero" on the tab . A degree or less off is acceptable. this will confirm zero on the dampener/timing tab matches the actual TDC position of the piston.