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Swapping from a NP445/NP435 to a NV4500 questions #2468427
03/19/18 01:30 AM
03/19/18 01:30 AM
Joined: Aug 2004
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Walnut Creek, CA
blown340 Offline OP
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Hi All, I currently have a NP445 in my 73 W200 with a 318 and a divorced NP205. The NP445 is just the close ration version of the NP435. I am going to be swapping to an NV4500 to gain an overdrive. The transmission I have is a 97 chevy short tail shaft 2wd trans which has been converted to a dodge 10 spline magnum style input shaft. I'll be using the hydraulic bellhousing setup from a 1995 small-block magnum ram. Questions:

Will I be able to reuse my flywheel if it's in good shape?

If I need a new flywheel, are the magnum 318's internally balanced like my 73 motor, or are they externally balanced like older 360's?

Looking at replacement flywheel's and clutches they seem to be available in 11" and 12". Will both sizes fit in the stock bellhouing, and if so which one is better to use?

Does anyone have any pictures of the tranny crossmember used in the 1992-93 NV4500 trucks? Will this work with my short chevy tailshaft? Or am I better off just fabricating something?

Thanks,
-Jon




Last edited by blown340; 03/19/18 01:34 AM.

70 challenger convertible. 340/5 speed. blown, intercooled, efi, blah blah blah 71 valiant scamp 318/A833OD/AC/PS 00 dakota RC 4.7L 5 spd autoX'r. SRT10/T56 swap in process 73 W200 Power wagon, PTO winch, 4 spd
Re: Swapping from a NP445/NP435 to a NV4500 questions [Re: blown340] #2469511
03/21/18 01:31 AM
03/21/18 01:31 AM
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Walnut Creek, CA
blown340 Offline OP
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Bump. Does anyone know about the balance of the magnum motors?


70 challenger convertible. 340/5 speed. blown, intercooled, efi, blah blah blah 71 valiant scamp 318/A833OD/AC/PS 00 dakota RC 4.7L 5 spd autoX'r. SRT10/T56 swap in process 73 W200 Power wagon, PTO winch, 4 spd
Re: Swapping from a NP445/NP435 to a NV4500 questions [Re: blown340] #2469601
03/21/18 10:48 AM
03/21/18 10:48 AM
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scratchnfotraction Offline
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IIRC the LA and magnum are slight different on balance but there are ways to mix match them.

if you have LA engine the fly should be ok and fit in the bell. just figure out the disc size and spline count then use the hydro clutch pressure plate/TO bearing.

I used a 88 v6 flywheel on my 91 LA pre-mag roller 318 when I went to a 92-93 2x NV4500 in my 85 stepside. I used a 92-93 d350 11" clutch disc 19 spline. a course 10 spline is 4x4 (so a 11" 10 spline disc should fit)

FYI..what I found was mopar hydro bell for a NV4500 is just that. it only fits the NV4500 and has a 19 spline input shaft. larger input bearing retainer than the 435 4 speeds

so check input retainer size and see whats on there GM or MOPAR and check bell housing hole size.

the 88 v6 hydro bell fits the v6/LA/magnum engine and has duel bolt pattern for the a535/883/883OD 4 speed & the 435 4 speed (but does not fit the NV4500)



the NV4500 has trans mount 2 inches further back than a 70s-80s 2x chassis.

this may be helpful on yours as it is divorced xfer. I was able to turn the trans mount 180* do some trimming on it and the edge of cross member to clear the rear of trans and use the stock xmember & bolt location on the 85 2x chassis to bolt it all in. the NV4500 used a 727 slip yoke and I shortened the shaft to fit.

if I put mine back in I will fab up a xmember for clearance issues that the stock one has.

the 92-93 trucks had a different xmemeber as it was kinda L shaped and bolted on out side of frame rail on one side IIRC..

the 2x chassis had some changes from 88-93 gearing up for magnum engine change over.

cant bolt a BB engine in a 2x chassis after 87 due to chassis changes.

BUT maybe the trick I used to keep my stock xmember & location will work for you or I suggest fab one up.

Re: Swapping from a NP445/NP435 to a NV4500 questions [Re: blown340] #2469624
03/21/18 11:36 AM
03/21/18 11:36 AM
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geo. Offline
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I believe 318s either LA or magnum are zero balanced, you should be fine.
360s are externally balanced and magnum is different from LA.

And I've got a question for you, please measure the pilot size of the various transmissions and bell housings that you have. I've got a steel bell housing that has been opened up to over 6 inches and a new bolt pattern added. I'm trying to figure out what trans it fits.

Re: Swapping from a NP445/NP435 to a NV4500 questions [Re: blown340] #2469678
03/21/18 01:21 PM
03/21/18 01:21 PM
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QuickDodge Offline
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Originally Posted By blown340


Looking at replacement flywheel's and clutches they seem to be available in 11" and 12". Will both sizes fit in the stock bellhouing, and if so which one is better to use?




My understanding is the flywheel must match the bellhousing. This is because the starter must be in the correct location to mesh with the gear teeth on the flywheel. Once you have determined which size flywheel is needed, then you can determine what size clutch will bolt onto the flywheel. Something else that must be determined is what size disk is available that will fit the input shaft of the transmission. Then you must verify the clutch disk is the correct thickness to work with the pressure plate you intend to use.

If either an 11" or a 12" clutch will fit the flywheel and the input shaft, then you have the option of choosing which size clutch to install. The intended usage of the truck should be taken into consideration. Back in the old days, the general rule was that trucks used for heavy duty purposes had a large clutch. Performance cars usually had smaller diameter clutches and flywheels. (Allows quicker shifting and the engine to rev faster.) This advice may be outdated, so it may be wise to get some current advice on this matter.

Blown340, please tell us how to install a Dodge input shaft into a Chevy transmission.

Last edited by QuickDodge; 03/21/18 01:29 PM.
Re: Swapping from a NP445/NP435 to a NV4500 questions [Re: blown340] #2469839
03/21/18 06:01 PM
03/21/18 06:01 PM
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scratchnfotraction Offline
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I do have a 82 LA 360 mech linkage bell from a d350 with the 360 flywheel that has the 12" clutch only.

you have to install the bell then heft the fly up into the bell and bolt it on. has 2 notches machined into the inside of the bell that allows just enough room to slide the fly in and clearance to spin.

same diameter of the 318 wheel though, so must be a bell housing thing?

both my LA 318 flys have duel pattern for 11 & 12 inch pressure plates.


IIRC the NV4500 is a GM trans but mopar had a NP contract and they made mopar input shafts/bearing size output shaft spline count mopar specific.

that's why the info tag specific to the trans is VERY important on its rebuild or conversions. info for correct bearings and changes coming down the line.

there is a 12$ service book from GM that is a good source for info and specs on the Chrysler & GM NV4500

OH! and remember NV4500 take a GL-4 ONLY gear lube cost about 100$ to fill one with extra qrt.

I run the amsoil nv4500 oil in mine and got a 2 1/2 gallon of the stock gl-4 oil at first.

there are some nice oil coolers/heatsinks to replace the PTO covers as heat is a killer on the front input shafts & oil viscosity.

Re: Swapping from a NP445/NP435 to a NV4500 questions [Re: blown340] #2470288
03/22/18 11:39 AM
03/22/18 11:39 AM
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scratchnfotraction Offline
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FYI..I think this is what confuses everyone?

130 tooth fly has the small bell.

143 tooth has a bigger bell and some bells have a notch machined in side to clear a 143 tooth fly. you hang bell then slide fly into place.

and do not interchange due to starter and fly diameter.

143 wont fit the small bell.

130 in a large bell the starter wont turn fly.

Re: Swapping from a NP445/NP435 to a NV4500 questions [Re: scratchnfotraction] #2486372
04/22/18 12:43 PM
04/22/18 12:43 PM
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blown340. When you switched from the np435 to the np445. Was the np445 case 1 inch longer, as mentioned in another post.

On the flywheel- count the number of teeth. I think you will need the 143 tooth flywheel. dodge drilled it for different clutch sizes depending on the application

Re: Swapping from a NP445/NP435 to a NV4500 questions [Re: blown340] #2486436
04/22/18 03:33 PM
04/22/18 03:33 PM
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jerseybud Offline
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Pics of crossmember here, post 103. 435 on top, 4500 on bottom
http://ramchargercentral.com/mopar-trucks/1988-w-100/100/

if anything you may have to drill 1-2 more holes in your frame and use existing crossmember, though it will be further back. But maybe not since you started with a 445 instead of a 435

use the 143 tooth 11 inch flywheel for your engine, or have yours ground if its already same dimensions, but measure it fist0 runout, thickness, etc. Just use the flywheel for your year engine

4500 bells are hydraulic- mopar perf used to recommend the 95 dakota set up so it sounds like you're on the right track there

clutches were messed up in 92-93- started with 19 spline input, then went to the 10 spline for the rest of the production run. One of the clutches was scalloped as well and dont want to mix and match scalloped flywheel with flat clutch, vice versa.

I assume you already have a divorced transfer case?

Re: Swapping from a NP445/NP435 to a NV4500 questions [Re: blown340] #2486473
04/22/18 05:54 PM
04/22/18 05:54 PM
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300by500 Offline
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Originally Posted By blown340
Bump. Does anyone know about the balance of the magnum motors?


Magnum 5.2 and LA 318 are both neutral balance, no issues.

5.9 and LA 360 are balanced differently from each other and the 5.2/318s.

Re: Swapping from a NP445/NP435 to a NV4500 questions [Re: 300by500] #2490108
04/30/18 07:34 PM
04/30/18 07:34 PM
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dogdays Offline
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My Dodge had a 182? tooth ring gear.

The 11" and the 12" pressure plates have the same bolt pattern. I removed the 11" and installed the 12" with no hassle at all. The pressure plates are exactly the same as Chevy truck pressure plates. The input splines if 10 spline are 1 1/8" diameter, exactly the same as a chevy. So a 12" Chevy pressure plate and disk should be a bolt-on.

I figured I wasn't going to be speed shifting my truck 4 speed so went 12" for durability.

I figured I wasn't going to be speed shifting my truck 4 speed so went 12" for durability.
The only question is whether the truck really has the smaller 143T flywheel and if it does, will the 12" pressure plate fit inside.

Now if it's a 10.95" clutch on the 10.5" bolt pattern pressure plate then everything I said doesn't apply.

R.

Last edited by dogdays; 04/30/18 07:38 PM.






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