Re: Thermostat or...
[Re: ozymaxwedge]
#2465208
03/12/18 02:25 PM
03/12/18 02:25 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,540 Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
Mr. Helpful
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Mr. Helpful
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,540
Fulton County, PA
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I have fixed a lot of cooling problems just by getting more air through the radiator. Wen you say "fully sealed" I assume you mean there is some type of shroud causing air to be pulled through 100% of the core. And that the fans are of sufficient size and CFM rating. I would take the restriction out and try it as well.
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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Re: Thermostat or...
[Re: ozymaxwedge]
#2465220
03/12/18 02:39 PM
03/12/18 02:39 PM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317 State of confusion
Thumperdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317
State of confusion
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With an elec. water pump I run a gutted t-stat and no issues........
72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
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Re: Thermostat or...
[Re: ozymaxwedge]
#2465275
03/12/18 04:27 PM
03/12/18 04:27 PM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,255 IL
furious70
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,255
IL
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FWIW I had an expensive set of twin fans with a full shroud around them and the car would always peg the gauge if caught in traffic. Put a stock clutch 7 blade fan on with no shroud at all (cuz I didn't have one to fit the rad) and it's tons better. Still need to find a shroud that fits to finish it.
70 Sport Fury 68 Charger 69 Coronet 72 RR
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Re: Thermostat or...
[Re: ozymaxwedge]
#2465378
03/12/18 08:02 PM
03/12/18 08:02 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,540 Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
Mr. Helpful
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Mr. Helpful
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,540
Fulton County, PA
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Last one I did I used 2 Spals with a full shroud but it was an aftermarket aluminum rad. They move a lot of air. Went from cooking itself to can't get it hot. Belt driven pump, no stat or restriction.
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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Re: Thermostat or...
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2465404
03/12/18 09:02 PM
03/12/18 09:02 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,165 Left Coast
BobR
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,165
Left Coast
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Take the washer out. you do not want less flow, you want more. Putting a washer in the coolant flow is like putting a piece of cardboard in front of the radiator with a 6" hole cut in it. But a thermostat reduces the flow as well A thermostat is not designed to make it run cooler, it is designed to make it run hotter than it would without one. I've seen just the opposite in the Mohave desert in SO CA, cars with no thermostats ran hotter in the summer than they did with one in it both 160 and 180 F made the cars run under 220 F when they where running hotter than that with no stat before trying one The consensus was the coolant wasn't spending enough time in the radiators to allow heat transfer into the outside hot air How where the Winternationals and Pomona ? PM me on this No not you Cab. That has been debunked for years. In a closed system more coolant flow is better. The radiator size, material of construction and fan rating are the only determiners of cooling system capacity. Like has been posted a thermostat is to insure quick warmups.
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Re: Thermostat or...
[Re: madscientist]
#2465405
03/12/18 09:03 PM
03/12/18 09:03 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,165 Left Coast
BobR
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,165
Left Coast
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This is all wrong. Most here don't understand how a cooling system works. A lot is trial and error, but some type of a restriction is needed for most systems. You have to slow down the flow so it stays in the radiator long enough to dissipate the heat. If it just flows threw it cant pull the heat out of the water. if the fans and water are efficient for the application then the radiator is not pulling enough heat out and you would need a more efficient core. I am not a big fan of electric water pumps and fans for for street use. I find that a good belt driven pump and clutch fan shroud and good rad is all that is needed for street. Sorry, but you are giving out bad information. The last thing you want in a cooling system is a flow restriction. Keeping the coolant in the radiator longer also leaves the coolant in the block and heads longer, where it gets hotter. Now the radiator has to remove more heat from the coolant. Do we restrict it more, and let more heat into the coolant? As said above, it's either an airflow issue or a coolant flow issue. There is absolutely nothing else that need be said.
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Re: Thermostat or...
[Re: JAKE68]
#2465439
03/12/18 09:44 PM
03/12/18 09:44 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,696 jersey
Spaceman Spiff
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,696
jersey
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This is all wrong. Most here don't understand how a cooling system works. A lot is trial and error, but some type of a restriction is needed for most systems. You have to slow down the flow so it stays in the radiator long enough to dissipate the heat. If it just flows threw it cant pull the heat out of the water. if the fans and water are efficient for the application then the radiator is not pulling enough heat out and you would need a more efficient core. I am not a big fan of electric water pumps and fans for for street use. I find that a good belt driven pump and clutch fan shroud and good rad is all that is needed for street. so, why when a car starts to run hot, does revving the engine( speeding up coolant flow) help to bring the temp down, vs letting it idle( slowing down the coolant flow)?
526 cubes of angry wedge, pushbutton shifted, 9 passenger killer!
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Re: Thermostat or...
[Re: sr4440]
#2465520
03/12/18 11:08 PM
03/12/18 11:08 PM
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Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,096 Australia
ozymaxwedge
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,096
Australia
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Well thanks guys but seems this is 3 ways, with thermostat, with centre cut out of it and totally open hahaha, guess I just give it a go. We will be on it this arvo so Ill post tomorrow how we go. I am a cause and effect type of guy. So it's a new build, let me ask a few questions. what's the total timing? do you have a vacuum advance on distributor? if you do is it hooked to ported vacuum or manifold vacuum.
Joe Hi Joe, 35 total and locked up. Flame away
1963 Plymouth Max Wedge 1971 Barracuda
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Re: Thermostat or...
[Re: Twostick]
#2465522
03/12/18 11:10 PM
03/12/18 11:10 PM
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Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,096 Australia
ozymaxwedge
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Sep 2015
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Australia
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Verify your temp gauge too. Wouldn't be the first time that 205 indicated was 190 actual.
Kevin I will do Kev, thanks.
1963 Plymouth Max Wedge 1971 Barracuda
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Re: Thermostat or...
[Re: CMcAllister]
#2465526
03/12/18 11:13 PM
03/12/18 11:13 PM
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Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,096 Australia
ozymaxwedge
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Sep 2015
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Australia
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Last one I did I used 2 Spals with a full shroud but it was an aftermarket aluminum rad. They move a lot of air. Went from cooking itself to can't get it hot. Belt driven pump, no stat or restriction. I will be shocked if it works without restriction but it is what we will try first PS, the fans are good and proven with 1000's of street machiners down here, they are from a late model ford.
Last edited by ozymaxwedge; 03/12/18 11:14 PM.
1963 Plymouth Max Wedge 1971 Barracuda
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Re: Thermostat or...
[Re: Thumperdart]
#2465530
03/12/18 11:17 PM
03/12/18 11:17 PM
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Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,096 Australia
ozymaxwedge
OP
super stock
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OP
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Joined: Sep 2015
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With an elec. water pump I run a gutted t-stat and no issues........ Hey Thumper, cant see the gutted stat working as the hole will not be much different to what i have.
1963 Plymouth Max Wedge 1971 Barracuda
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Re: Thermostat or...
[Re: SportF]
#2465545
03/12/18 11:38 PM
03/12/18 11:38 PM
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Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,096 Australia
ozymaxwedge
OP
super stock
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OP
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Australia
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Um, Oxy, restriction is a negative in this problem. Its a widely held believe, but not true.
As I kinda mentioned, heat transfer has been studied in detail, right here in Minnesota (get it?) since 1887. I don't think they are wrong.
There is no doubt that people might put in a restriction and "fix" the problem. But it didn't defy physics nor the research. It did something else to change the outcome. Turbulence aids heat transfer, as in more flow. You can't have too much flow. As I said I will try it with nothing in first, if it runs cooler then i'll be happy and amazed .
1963 Plymouth Max Wedge 1971 Barracuda
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Re: Thermostat or...
[Re: ozymaxwedge]
#2466091
03/13/18 11:05 PM
03/13/18 11:05 PM
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Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,096 Australia
ozymaxwedge
OP
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OP
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Australia
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UPDATE, Took the restriction out, the washer tack welded to the gutted thermostat was probably closer to a 3/4 hole, anyway with nothing in there we headed down the road and there was no real change, we went a little farther traveling at 50-60mph and seen nearly 215 on the gauge. Hot afternoon here though at 95 and with a new'ish engine I guess we are struggling. Will try the 180 thermostat next .
1963 Plymouth Max Wedge 1971 Barracuda
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Re: Thermostat or...
[Re: ozymaxwedge]
#2466107
03/13/18 11:26 PM
03/13/18 11:26 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457 Washington
madscientist
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
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UPDATE, Took the restriction out, the washer tack welded to the gutted thermostat was probably closer to a 3/4 hole, anyway with nothing in there we headed down the road and there was no real change, we went a little farther traveling at 50-60mph and seen nearly 215 on the gauge. Hot afternoon here though at 95 and with a new'ish engine I guess we are struggling. Will try the 180 thermostat next . You have other issues. A thermostat won't fix it.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: Thermostat or...
[Re: madscientist]
#2466113
03/13/18 11:36 PM
03/13/18 11:36 PM
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Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,096 Australia
ozymaxwedge
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
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Australia
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You have other issues. A thermostat won't fix it.
Well, the water pump is great, the fans are great, the radiator is good condition large Chrysler unit, the block is not filled and there is NO bubbles in the in the rad when running with the cap off. Im lost.
1963 Plymouth Max Wedge 1971 Barracuda
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Re: Thermostat or...
[Re: ozymaxwedge]
#2466126
03/14/18 12:07 AM
03/14/18 12:07 AM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,459 Sydney,Australia
tex013
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,459
Sydney,Australia
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Al , I had a mates 440 do the same thing . Man it got almost scary hot up to 225 or so . Anyway . I tried : jack up rear of bonnet to help air flow , marginal gain different waterpump and even pump housing , no change thermostat and no thermostat , no change checked the 16" puller electrical fan , nearly blew me over I was about stumped . Final resort put an old heavy Mopar fixed 6 blade mechanical fan on it , no shroud . Could not get the motor to warm up !! Now as he likes to rev and occasionally race it I put a thermostat in it and a flexlite 7 blade flex fan with a modified Camaro shroud. Car now runs mid 180's unless a hot day in traffic . Sometimes the electrical fans simply do not pull enough air no matter the advertising . Low speed overheat = look at the fan High speed overheat = look at airflow and coolant flow - radiator condition/size Over 35MPH airflow should be enough that you don't need a fan . That airflow can be through the radiator core as well as airflow out of engine bay . A 3 or 4 core radiator can be as bad as a blocked core for airflow and heat dissipation . With my sixpack bonnet if I run the air plate on the street the motor runs hotter Good luck
Tex
New best ET 10.259@129.65 . New best MPH 130.32 Finally fitted a solid cam, stepped it up a bit more 3690lbs through the mufflers New World block 3780lbs 10.278@130.80 . Wowser 10.253@130.24 footbraking from 1500rpm Power by Tex's Automotive
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