Roller or Flat Tappet
#2453768
02/19/18 02:34 AM
02/19/18 02:34 AM
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Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,096 Australia
ozymaxwedge
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,096
Australia
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Hey guys, Have shat a roller lifter in my 528 indy headed wedge, it's in a 95% street 5% strip Barracuda, 600 rwhp , 4500+ stall, 3.7 gears and 28" tire. Now Im guessing the cam will be stuffed as well so was thinking maybe I just go for new solid flat tappet cam and lifters like my other engine. The roller cam that's in there was originally for the strip with a small shot of N20, 285 290 112lsa and 727 lift. Have to add a set of springs if I go new roller as they are on there way out but if I go for the flat tappet idea I have springs. So with this info what do you think I should go for ? Fell free to suggest cam specs if your keen. cheers
1963 Plymouth Max Wedge 1971 Barracuda
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Re: Roller or Flat Tappet
[Re: ozymaxwedge]
#2453771
02/19/18 02:49 AM
02/19/18 02:49 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,592 Great Neck,LI,new york
hemi-itis
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,592
Great Neck,LI,new york
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I have been using roller lifters in the street for 20 years. What failed with your lifter? How old was it? Have you lashed them regularly,,at least 4 times year? What spring pressure were you using?
HEMI-ITIS has no cure. My condition is fully BLOWN!!
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Re: Roller or Flat Tappet
[Re: ozymaxwedge]
#2453777
02/19/18 03:02 AM
02/19/18 03:02 AM
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Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,096 Australia
ozymaxwedge
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,096
Australia
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Have not pulled the top off yet, only a valve cover and there is a 1/2" of lash on #7 EX, push rod straight and adjuster is sweet. I guessing the roller is gone ? Springs were 240lb and 630lb when new but think they are more like 200lb now. Yeah they are about 8 years old.
1963 Plymouth Max Wedge 1971 Barracuda
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Re: Roller or Flat Tappet
[Re: ozymaxwedge]
#2453788
02/19/18 03:46 AM
02/19/18 03:46 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,592 Great Neck,LI,new york
hemi-itis
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,592
Great Neck,LI,new york
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With rollers,when you lash and find one needs an adjustment make note.heck,if that lifter is loose Next time you check than you know the lifter is going away.Rebiuld ALL the lifters,not just the loose one!
HEMI-ITIS has no cure. My condition is fully BLOWN!!
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Re: Roller or Flat Tappet
[Re: ozymaxwedge]
#2453877
02/19/18 12:44 PM
02/19/18 12:44 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,289 Benton, IL.
DaveRS23
Special needs idiot
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Special needs idiot
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,289
Benton, IL.
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When you ask this question, you get a lot of different opinions. We can talk about spring pressures, oil, cam cores, lifter styles, lash, lifter maintenance, lifter brand, bushings vs bearings, etc, etc.
Certainly, which one to use depends on the intended use. The bigger the cam and the higher the necessary spring pressures that comes with that tends to favor the rollers.
For my primarily street Hemi, low maintenance and durability was very important. I talked to several major Mopar engine builders about which style cam to run.
For me, Ray Barton's recommendation of the tool steel flat solid tappet was the best choice. And it has worked well.
Master, again and still
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Re: Roller or Flat Tappet
[Re: DaveRS23]
#2453942
02/19/18 03:07 PM
02/19/18 03:07 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,872 Pattison Texas
CSK
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,872
Pattison Texas
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When you ask this question, you get a lot of different opinions. We can talk about spring pressures, oil, cam cores, lifter styles, lash, lifter maintenance, lifter brand, bushings vs bearings, etc, etc.
Certainly, which one to use depends on the intended use. The bigger the cam and the higher the necessary spring pressures that comes with that tends to favor the rollers.
For my primarily street Hemi, low maintenance and durability was very important. I talked to several major Mopar engine builders about which style cam to run.
For me, Ray Barton's recommendation of the tool steel flat solid tappet was the best choice. And it has worked well. Not trying to be a smart a--, but have you checked the cam lobe nose ? me and others did not fair so well with tool steel lifters. I was going solid roller, I now am going with the Morel High RPM, push rod oil, Hydro roller. HUG 6074 BB RACE HYDRAULIC ROLLER LIFTER SET GOOD FOR UP TO 225# SEAT PRESSURE & 550# OPEN $919.47 Set of 16 Big Block Hydraulic Race Roller Lifters. These are oil thru lifters and will oil through the pushrods if you need them to. Suggested maximum spring pressure: 225# on the seat 550# full lift DO NOT RUN OIL THICKER THAN 5W40 WITH THESE LIFTERS. .810" roller * The lifter bores do not need to be bushed to run these lifters. * DO NOT use these lifters with a flat tappet cam! Note: These lifters also fit the AMC V8 engines.
Last edited by csk; 02/19/18 05:12 PM.
1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI 512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim 2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5
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Re: Roller or Flat Tappet
[Re: ozymaxwedge]
#2453955
02/19/18 03:27 PM
02/19/18 03:27 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,706 Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
Mr. Helpful
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Mr. Helpful
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,706
Fulton County, PA
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Another roller all day long. 8 years on springs? If they've lost 20% on the seat, what are they doing over the nose? Gotta maintain this stuff.
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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Re: Roller or Flat Tappet
[Re: ozymaxwedge]
#2454053
02/19/18 06:38 PM
02/19/18 06:38 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,475 Sydney,Australia
tex013
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,475
Sydney,Australia
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Al, my which aren't worth much . If primarily street and you want a roller go hydraulic . BUT this will limit rpm to around 6500 max. You may want to go to a 30" tyre , several guys I know run 30" radials on their E bodies I myself like solid flat tappet because I like simple , plus they don't get wound up with extended traffic idleing . Though can be a gamble with break in . I do not have the same choof your motor does . Current flat tappet is a custom grind from Crow Cams , nitrided and I use Howards lifters with oil hole . This is the second motor with Howards lifters , no issues . Tex
Last edited by tex013; 02/19/18 06:41 PM.
New best ET 10.259@129.65 . New best MPH 130.32 Finally fitted a solid cam, stepped it up a bit more 3690lbs through the mufflers New World block 3780lbs 10.278@130.80 . Wowser 10.253@130.24 footbraking from 1500rpm Power by Tex's Automotive
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Re: Roller or Flat Tappet
[Re: CSK]
#2454144
02/19/18 09:22 PM
02/19/18 09:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,289 Benton, IL.
DaveRS23
Special needs idiot
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Special needs idiot
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,289
Benton, IL.
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When you ask this question, you get a lot of different opinions. We can talk about spring pressures, oil, cam cores, lifter styles, lash, lifter maintenance, lifter brand, bushings vs bearings, etc, etc.
Certainly, which one to use depends on the intended use. The bigger the cam and the higher the necessary spring pressures that comes with that tends to favor the rollers.
For my primarily street Hemi, low maintenance and durability was very important. I talked to several major Mopar engine builders about which style cam to run.
For me, Ray Barton's recommendation of the tool steel flat solid tappet was the best choice. And it has worked well. Not trying to be a smart a--, but have you checked the cam lobe nose ? me and others did not fair so well with tool steel lifters. I was going solid roller, I now am going with the Morel High RPM, push rod oil, Hydro roller. No, I haven't checked the cam in a couple of years. I check the lash every 1,000 miles or so and it hasn't changed. Are you saying that the nose goes away while the ramps and base circle are okay? Ray Barton has built more of these engines that about anyone around and he said that he sees less problems from the flats than from the rollers on the street. One big reason is the closer tolerance machining on these lifters than on many other flat tappet lifters. If any of the lobes go away, I will definitely let everybody know.
Master, again and still
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Re: Roller or Flat Tappet
[Re: DaveRS23]
#2454173
02/19/18 10:23 PM
02/19/18 10:23 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,872 Pattison Texas
CSK
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,872
Pattison Texas
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When you ask this question, you get a lot of different opinions. We can talk about spring pressures, oil, cam cores, lifter styles, lash, lifter maintenance, lifter brand, bushings vs bearings, etc, etc.
Certainly, which one to use depends on the intended use. The bigger the cam and the higher the necessary spring pressures that comes with that tends to favor the rollers.
For my primarily street Hemi, low maintenance and durability was very important. I talked to several major Mopar engine builders about which style cam to run.
For me, Ray Barton's recommendation of the tool steel flat solid tappet was the best choice. And it has worked well. Not trying to be a smart a--, but have you checked the cam lobe nose ? me and others did not fair so well with tool steel lifters. I was going solid roller, I now am going with the Morel High RPM, push rod oil, Hydro roller. No, I haven't checked the cam in a couple of years. I check the lash every 1,000 miles or so and it hasn't changed. Are you saying that the nose goes away while the ramps and base circle are okay? Ray Barton has built more of these engines that about anyone around and he said that he sees less problems from the flats than from the rollers on the street. One big reason is the closer tolerance machining on these lifters than on many other flat tappet lifters. If any of the lobes go away, I will definitely let everybody know. The lash never changed on mine 4000 ish miles, the nose goes away. link to my post LINK HERE TO MY CAM PROBLEM
1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI 512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim 2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5
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Re: Roller or Flat Tappet
[Re: CMcAllister]
#2454208
02/19/18 10:58 PM
02/19/18 10:58 PM
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Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,096 Australia
ozymaxwedge
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,096
Australia
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Another roller all day long. 8 years on springs? If they've lost 20% on the seat, what are they doing over the nose? Gotta maintain this stuff. Yeah I know but $$$$.. The 8 years was how old the roller lifters are, springs about 4 years.
1963 Plymouth Max Wedge 1971 Barracuda
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Re: Roller or Flat Tappet
[Re: DaveRS23]
#2454218
02/19/18 11:03 PM
02/19/18 11:03 PM
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Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,096 Australia
ozymaxwedge
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,096
Australia
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When you ask this question, you get a lot of different opinions. We can talk about spring pressures, oil, cam cores, lifter styles, lash, lifter maintenance, lifter brand, bushings vs bearings, etc, etc.
Certainly, which one to use depends on the intended use. The bigger the cam and the higher the necessary spring pressures that comes with that tends to favor the rollers.
For my primarily street Hemi, low maintenance and durability was very important. I talked to several major Mopar engine builders about which style cam to run.
For me, Ray Barton's recommendation of the tool steel flat solid tappet was the best choice. And it has worked well. Cheers Dave, I guess that the cost probably answers my question, the extra coin purchasing and ongoing spring/lifter replacement is swaying me toward a flat tappet.
1963 Plymouth Max Wedge 1971 Barracuda
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Re: Roller or Flat Tappet
[Re: ccdave]
#2454273
02/19/18 11:42 PM
02/19/18 11:42 PM
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Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,096 Australia
ozymaxwedge
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,096
Australia
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Install a Hyd roller with beehive springs and forget it’s there. Will run and perform flawlessly for many years Will I give up some horsepower ? A bit more would be nice. Like to recommend some numbers ?
1963 Plymouth Max Wedge 1971 Barracuda
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Re: Roller or Flat Tappet
[Re: ozymaxwedge]
#2454278
02/19/18 11:49 PM
02/19/18 11:49 PM
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Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,134 Lost in Time
Iowan
super stock
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super stock
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,134
Lost in Time
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I use solid flat tappets because of the cost, simplicity and reliability.....it cost some hp but just a street/sptip car.
Have a great day Iowan
"obsolete is neat"
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Re: Roller or Flat Tappet
[Re: ozymaxwedge]
#2454487
02/20/18 12:32 PM
02/20/18 12:32 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,402 Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,402
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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When I built my 572" hemi 12 years ago, the two main guys I consulted w/ during the planning phase both recommended me to go w/ a flat tappet cam b/c of all the street use it was gonna see. I stuck to my guns and went solid roller and have never once been upset about it. If you buy GOOD parts, you'll be fine. Yes, the roller is definitely more expensive, but so is going through an engine again after a lobe goes flat. You can't run a big nasty solid roller lobe w/ $400 lifters and expect it to live long.
CHIP '70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60 '71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75 '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75 '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: Roller or Flat Tappet
[Re: ozymaxwedge]
#2454511
02/20/18 01:04 PM
02/20/18 01:04 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,807 Mopar Country, Mi
ccdave
The Ultimate
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The Ultimate
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,807
Mopar Country, Mi
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Install a Hyd roller with beehive springs and forget it’s there. Will run and perform flawlessly for many years Will I give up some horsepower ? A bit more would be nice. Like to recommend some numbers ? I'm going by your 95% street driven. Will you give up some power? Maybe a little. Do you want your valve train to last for years and not have to fiddle with it??? I would recommend Hughes cam# SER6064BL3-9 with PAC 1220 springs. Most here will consider this cam small for your application but the key word is "95% street"
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