Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Explain moving the pushrod holes on a Smallblock #2441333
01/27/18 01:52 AM
01/27/18 01:52 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,628
Middle TN
da50r Offline OP
master
da50r  Offline OP
master

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,628
Middle TN
I was watching an episode of Enginemasters. Dulcich ported some heads and moved the pushrods to make room for porting. They didn’t do any detailed shots of what he did. Left me confused. So if he moved the pushrod holes, filled them in, and redrilled..... I’m confused. So does this mean you either need to weld or fill the ports where the old pushrod location was? Also, does this just put the pushrod at a funky angle now too? Thanks for the education.

Re: Explain moving the pushrod holes on a Smallblock [Re: da50r] #2441343
01/27/18 02:01 AM
01/27/18 02:01 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,157
Bend,OR USA
C
Cab_Burge Offline
I Win
Cab_Burge  Offline
I Win
C

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,157
Bend,OR USA
Many heads have the intake port ported enough to go through the wall on the pushrod side enough that the engine builder has to use a tube, half or quarter of the tube, epoxied into the head for the pushrod to clear using a offset intake rocker arm and a offset roller lifter cup moving the pushrod over to clear the new intake port. work
Not for the faint hearted or novice unless their willing to take the time, money and effort to do that type of modification properly to work correctly up


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Explain moving the pushrod holes on a Smallblock [Re: da50r] #2441349
01/27/18 02:08 AM
01/27/18 02:08 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,628
Middle TN
da50r Offline OP
master
da50r  Offline OP
master

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,628
Middle TN
For sure it’s over my head. I was just trying to understand what they did for pushrod angle. That’s definitely not an easy mod it seems for the novice.

Re: Explain moving the pushrod holes on a Smallblock [Re: da50r] #2441356
01/27/18 02:21 AM
01/27/18 02:21 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,894
Florida
Locomotion Offline
master
Locomotion  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,894
Florida
Read up on the 1970 340 6-pak engine used in Challenger T/A and AAR Cudas. This was done on the factory heads to allow porting and they used offset rockers. This led to the development of aftermarket W-2 heads which had the intake pushrods moved a bit more. Bob Mullin did a lot of development work with Chrysler on these designs.

Last edited by Locomotion; 01/27/18 02:22 AM.
Re: Explain moving the pushrod holes on a Smallblock [Re: Locomotion] #2441460
01/27/18 01:32 PM
01/27/18 01:32 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,172
PA.
pittsburghracer Online work
"Little"John
pittsburghracer  Online Work
"Little"John

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,172
PA.
I can't help a lot but here's a set I started. Without moving the pushrod on a set of small block Edelbrock heads I can get them from 243 cfm out of the box up to 318 cfm just by tubing 2 head bolt holes and 4 intake pushrod holes on each head. VERY simple procedure. I always wanted to see how much more cfm I could get out of them by pushing the pushrod over so I put aluminum rod into the pushrod hole and started grinding to open them up. The first test was kinda disappointing but when I get time I will get back on them. Harlan Sharp make me up a set of .350 intake rockers so when I find its "happy spot" I will redrill the pushrod holes.


Untitled by John Cadamore, on Flickr


Untitled by John Cadamore, on Flickr


Untitled by John Cadamore, on Flickr


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: Explain moving the pushrod holes on a Smallblock [Re: da50r] #2441634
01/27/18 06:04 PM
01/27/18 06:04 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,206
New York
polyspheric Offline
master
polyspheric  Offline
master

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,206
New York
For those who look at offset rockers with suspicion: look at the Chrysler 331 etc. - made the same way since 1951.
Almost every pushrod British bike engine has huge offset.


Boffin Emeritus
Re: Explain moving the pushrod holes on a Smallblock [Re: da50r] #2444053
01/31/18 02:32 PM
01/31/18 02:32 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 792
Earth
R
Rob C Offline
super stock
Rob C  Offline
super stock
R

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 792
Earth
Originally Posted By da50r
I was watching an episode of Enginemasters. Dulcich ported some heads and moved the pushrods to make room for porting. They didn’t do any detailed shots of what he did. Left me confused. So if he moved the pushrod holes, filled them in, and redrilled..... I’m confused. So does this mean you either need to weld or fill the ports where the old pushrod location was? Also, does this just put the pushrod at a funky angle now too? Thanks for the education.


I liked that episode. You can get that cylinder head mod done from Indy. INDY also claims some disputed numbers from there CNC port work.

What is done is the pushrod tube is filled in. Steve did it with aluminum shavings and epoxy. Lay the head on a flat surface, mix epoxy, pour & fill into the pushrod hole, let it sit and become soild. Port when hardened & ready. If can also be done with an aluminum rod with an interference fit. I have read some guy did it in this way. He also used a, forgive the lack of a proper name or term, lock tight to help keep the aluminum in place. At this point the port can now be ported wider.

Since the pushrod has to be moved over to activate the rocker arm, the rocker arm itself has to be made offset. So, yes, angles change. But this has been done by most every manufacturer of engines. Here the offset rocker arms or custom offset units are strong enough for most any application. Of course material of the arm maybe the limit as some are better than others under a heavy spring load.

Pushrod angles in the small block are far from perfect. You will loose some lift with the stock angles. If the geometry is off at the rocker, you loose more lift. The MP 48* race block fixes this issue with straightening out the pushrods. But there is still an angle on a left to right as looking at it from the side of the engine.

All of this negitive pushrod angle is still worth the opening of the port. Of course, how far the head can go is the limitation. But the limitation level has been removed for a higher level of possible air flow. And that of course is (potential) power!

The amount of offset has to be carefully calculated for not only clearance but to get the pushrod as straight as possible in the right position. Which more than likely will require adjusting the height of the fulcrum point of the rocker arm for good rocker tip to valve stem workings.

Once all of this is sorted out, even on a stock iron head, X. J, 308, etc... or the factory hp head like the ‘70-340 TA/AAR 6 pack head, it should be a kick ass head for what ever head you start with vs what you end up with. As mentioned earlier, the development of the W2 & W5 Head do not even have a pushrod hole to deal with and require the offset rocker to even operate the head. (Expensive! But worth it IMO when racing.)

I feel the work shown on Engine Masters is a bit adventurous for most guys at home, IF I felt confident on my head porting skills to start with, I’d give it a whirl. It is not a lot of work on top of porting the head. It just the whole job is a lot.

Refer to a pro head porter for more information and possible worth and cost for this mod. If such a mod is worth the cost and added performance over a ported stock casting of what ever head your looking at. A well ported Edelbrock Head does very well. So it may not pay at your level. That’s for you to figure out and I’d do it with a long talk with a pro head porter.
At least “Other Options” can be discussed that may be better. Check your dollars and sense!

Re: Explain moving the pushrod holes on a Smallblock [Re: da50r] #2444091
01/31/18 03:57 PM
01/31/18 03:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,496
So. Burlington, Vt.
F
fast68plymouth Offline
I Live Here
fast68plymouth  Offline
I Live Here
F

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,496
So. Burlington, Vt.
IMO, if you're using OE heads, you'd have be getting really serious to warrant needing the offset rockers.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: Explain moving the pushrod holes on a Smallblock [Re: fast68plymouth] #2444164
01/31/18 06:17 PM
01/31/18 06:17 PM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
M
madscientist Offline
master
madscientist  Offline
master
M

Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
Originally Posted By fast68plymouth
IMO, if you're using OE heads, you'd have be getting really serious to warrant needing the offset rockers.



Exactly. If you are going to use an offset rocker might as well go W-2 and be done.


Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
Re: Explain moving the pushrod holes on a Smallblock [Re: madscientist] #2444473
02/01/18 03:40 AM
02/01/18 03:40 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,157
Bend,OR USA
C
Cab_Burge Offline
I Win
Cab_Burge  Offline
I Win
C

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,157
Bend,OR USA
[/quote]

Exactly. If you are going to use an offset rocker might as well go W-2 and be done. [/quote] iagree
If your trying to make more power start with the best head you can get up
Unless the rules you race with say you have to use a stock OEM head work


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Explain moving the pushrod holes on a Smallblock [Re: da50r] #2444619
02/01/18 02:05 PM
02/01/18 02:05 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,206
New York
polyspheric Offline
master
polyspheric  Offline
master

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,206
New York
start with the best head you can get
This^^^


Boffin Emeritus
Re: Explain moving the pushrod holes on a Smallblock [Re: polyspheric] #2444902
02/01/18 10:38 PM
02/01/18 10:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,138
Melbourne , Australia
LA360 Offline
master
LA360  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,138
Melbourne , Australia
I remember T/A style heads had a 0.550" offset rocker arm, a lot of work these days for little return. Unless you were racing a class that specified a factory head had to be run, not a lot of point to doing it really.
I have a truck headed 360, I did toy with the idea of doing it with those and making my own offset arms. But only because I like making that kind of stuff and can do it all myself. Expensive exercise if someone is doing it for me.


Alan Jones
Re: Explain moving the pushrod holes on a Smallblock [Re: LA360] #2444909
02/01/18 10:47 PM
02/01/18 10:47 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,172
PA.
pittsburghracer Online work
"Little"John
pittsburghracer  Online Work
"Little"John

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,172
PA.
The main thing to remember when working with stock heads. The pinch isn’t the main issue that needs addressed


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time










Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1