My 84 Chrysler 5th Avenue would not start - it would turn over fine but would not fire. I decided it was time to switch from computer the ecu. Bought a conversion kit from Jegs. Put it in and it worked first crank, just set timing and adjusted idle and it ran better than ever. That was November 29th and on December 22nd back to the same problem - turns over fine but will not start. Jegs tells me the kit was not designed for my lean burn. But if that is true, why did it wait for almost a month to decide it was not right for my car? Kind of wonder if the module has gone bad. I get battery on both post of the coil when the module harness is disconnected but when I connect the harness I get about 8 volts on the negative post and almost 4 volts on the positive post. Double checked all my connections and they look fine. What am I missing?

Welcome aboard. pull the yellow wire off of the starter relay to disable the starter & have a helper hold the key to "start" & see if the coil positive primary terminal/blue/yellow ECU terminal are hot (& near batt voltage) then have him release the key to "run" & see if they are still hot. seperate/reconnect the ECU pentastar connector/dist pickup zigzag connector & firewall bulkhead. Ohm the dist pickup for ohm amount/continuity. the coil positive primary should have more voltage than the coil negative primary terminal. How did you wire it up? this'll get us started. EDIT with a bit more thinking, you might be wired right ex the coil is backwards & it was OK when warmer but not when it got real cold OR the ECU mighta failed (it wouldn't be orange in color would it!). Ohm the ballast too but for that potential that would be a "run" side issue with maybe a hint of starting on the "crank" side till you let off the key & it goes back to the run "ballast" side.

Thanks for your quick response. I just got back to my computer, so I am afraid some of what you ask will have to wait till tomorrow when it is daylight and hopefully a little warmer. My helper is a she (wife) who likes milder temperatures. But I will answer/ask questions where I can this evening to help move things along. You say "separate/reconnect the ECU pentastar connector/dist pickup zigzag connector and firewall bulkhead." I guess this is what Jegs' kit instructions call the harness and by separate/reconnect do you want me to ohm the pickup first with it disconnected from the ECU and then with it connected to the ECU? As far as wiring: from the ECU harness the black with a yellow trace (#2 pin on ECU) went to the negative post on the ignition coil, the blue w/yellow trace (#1 pin on ECU) went to one side of the ballast resistor, from this same side of the ballast resistor I ran a new 14 gauge wire and spliced into the main ignition feed wire coming off pin 37 of the Master Disconnect Connector on the bulkhead/firewall, next I cut the wire coming out of the starter relay going to the "BAL" connection (taped up the non-connector side) and spliced a new 14 gauge wire to the "BAL" connected wire which I then ran to the other end of the ballast resistor, then from that same end I ran another new 14 gauge wire to the positive post of the ignition coil and pins #4 and #5 go to the zigzag plug of the dist. pickup coil. Yes, the ECU that came in the Jegs' kit is orange. There is no ". . .hint of starting on the crank". It just turns over fine but not even a hint of starting. Hope that answers your questions. I will try to fill in the rest of the blanks tomorrow. Thanks again for the help.

Yesterday the response I got from Jegs to my plea for help was that the kit I purchased was not compatible with the factory lean burn system. Today they sent me this message,"Thanks for your response. The lean burn systems have a separate ignition unit that should be removed; these kits such as the one you purchased are designed to replace the lean burn ignition. If the unit is defective, send it back and we will be happy to replace it." I guess they could mean it is not compatible if I just drop their kit in and leave the lean burn system intact. But the lean burn used a two pick up coil dist. and the dist. with their kit uses only one, so it should be obvious I did not leave the lean burn intact. That seems a bit confusing, but nice to know they are ready to stand behind their product. Things are warming up here so I should be able to run the test you asked for in a bit.

Im not sure what Jegs means by not being compatible. You are completely disconnecting the fuel control computer and replacing it with the ECU and new distributor. THe only un compatibility is you also need to get rid of the feedback carb but that shouldn't affect your sudden non running issue.

You can't start mixing things up and use a vacuum distributor with the original computer like you seem to be implying in your last post.

If you follow Roberts advice, you will be able to trace where in your wiring your problem lies.

If you had an intermittent non start it could be a loose wire. I had that happen in my Diplomat and it was the ignition switch on the way out...

It is likely not related to the lean burn (not that it is a terrible idea to replace it)

To the best of my ability and understanding, here are the answers to the questions Rapid Robert asked me to check on:
1. With the pentastar connected key in start, on positive post I read 7.56
2. With the pentastar connected key in start, on negative post I read 3.65
3. With the pentastar disconnected key in start, on positive post I read 11.35
4. With the pentastar disconnected key in start, on negative post I read 11.35
5. With the pentastar connected key in run, on positive post I read 7.46
6. With the pentastar connected key in run, on negative post I read 3.92
7. With the pentastar disconnected key in run, on positive post I read 11.39
8. With the pentastar disconnected key in run, on negative post I read 11.39
9. The dist. pickup does have continuity and reads 250 ohms
10. Yes the ECU is "Halloween pumpkin" orange
11. The ballast resistor reads 1.3 ohms
Just as reference, the battery voltage reads 12.10
Something I didn't mention yesterday is that I put in new plugs and wires the month before I did the conversion and I put in a new ignition coil at the same time as I did the conversion.
Thanks again

Check the reluctor gap (takes 5 seconds) . seperate the dist pickup zigzag connector & drag the male (bare) tip of the body harness half of that connector across the intake surface (ground) as you hold the end of the large coil to dist coil wire 1/4" from the intake (ground) with key "on" & key to "crank" with starter relay unplugged (yellow "ign" wire) see if the coil wire sparks. I dont think it will as I think the box has died but it is an easy check. Take all the wires off of the coil negative primary terminal (might just be one) & with a jumper wire with alligator clips on each end, connect one end to the coil neg terminal and tap tap the other alligator clip end to the intake & see if it makes the coil wire spark (in run & in crank, same deal there). I'm assuming the blue/yellow (ECU main feed) is hot also (I mighta missed that). It sounds like the infamous orange box has died. though I dont suggest shotgunning parts for diagnosing, I think I would get a cheap parts house 4 pin replacement & if it turns out that that ain't it, with the newer orange boxes' rep I would highly suggest a spare 4 pin ECU in the glove box.

It sure seems to me that it is pointing to a defective ECU. However, once again night has overtaken me and we are headed back down into the 20's, so I will get the answers to your questions tomorrow. Following the instructions that came with the conversion kit, I did check the reluctor gap when I took the new distributor out of the box. It was no where near where it was suppose to be and with a brass feeler gauge I set it to .008 of an inch, as instructed. Of course it could have moved, so I will check it again tomorrow. Following my Chrysler service manual, I did try to get a spark out of the coil wire by momentary taps with a test lead on the negative post to ground with the coil wire 1/4 inch from ground, but it didn't call for me to remove the black/yellow wire from the negative post (the only wire on the negative post) and it only had me try it with the switch in the run position; nor did it have me try it with the zigzag connector. In every instance, with and without the harness connected, I never got a spark. Just to be sure, I will try everything you ask tomorrow. My question now is about the, as you said, ". . .infamous orange box." I am guessing the use of "infamous" in this instance is not a good thing. I know about carrying a spare part in the glove box. I also drive a '67 Corvair and never leave home without a spare belt and clutch cable. But I also know, with my luck, I will have just cut my hand off on the table saw and need to rush myself to the ER when the 5th Ave. will give me another no start. So are there better, more reliable boxes? I don't have to tear this conversion apart to send it in just to have them send me another orange box? Thanks

Actually if you pull the pentastar connector off of the ECU yes you dont have to take off the black/yellow wire from the coil neg primary post, just pull the coil wire out of the dist cap terminal & make/break jumping the coil neg primary terminal to ground with a jumper & see if the coil wire held 1/4 from ground makes sparks & I would do it in run and in crank. if it sparks then that tells you all is good ex for either the ECU, the dist, their respective wiring. then plug everything back in & drag the pickup body half male metal tip across the intake metal surface & same deal, see if the coil wire sparks in run and in crank & in fact I would do that first & if it sparks then the dist pickup is the issue but with you showing continuity on it I don't think it is the pickup but it is an easy first test (& yes this ain't a "factory" procedure) but it is safe/effective. The newer orange boxes do have a higher failure rate than the old ones did but we are the fixit dept so we (mostly) do get bad news here & it did run so it is wired right so K.I.S.S. (keep it simple sam) does point to the ECU as the culprit. & make sure the ECU is grounded well.

where was the 12.10 battery voltage reading taken from ? if it was from the battery posts, that battery needs charged before continuing. if from somewhere else, you are losing voltage due to resistance. providing the battery is 12.6 or above at the posts.

You gave me a list of things to try last night in you post at 7:35 PM, and of course, as I said, I would try them today in the daylight. This morning at 9:15 AM, you gave me pretty much the same list but letting me know with the pentastar connector off I did not have to pull the negative lead off the coil. I made a copy of those things to try and went down to the car. With the pentastar connector already off I tried the first set of questions. With the jumper on the coil negative post and first key in run then start position I got no spark from the coil wire dist connector at 1/4 inch from ground. Hooked everything up, pulled the zigzag connector apart, key in run then start and there was my spark at the coil wire end and your post said,". . .if it sparks then the dist pickup is the issue but with you showing continuity on it I don't think it is the pickup. . ." I thought WOW! I was so sure everything was pointing to the ECU. But then I thought back to the opening sentence on your post from last night, "Check the reluctor gap (takes 5 seconds)." For me, crawling back there takes more than 5 seconds, but sure enough, the gap was just about as bad as when I took the dist out of the box. I set it back to .008, put the cap on, plugged everything back together and it is running great again! I know when I tightened that screw the first time I did so till it felt like I might cam out the head and I did the same thing today. As I said earlier, I have a Corvair, actually two, so I have had lots of time under a dist cap and don't recall having a plate move out like that. Maybe I just didn't get it tight enough; it may happen again. But it is running once again (I did charge the battery up) and I sure appreciate everyone's help. I do have one small question. It looks like the pentastar connector and its mating jack are designed to have a screw down through the center to keep them from separating. I know there wasn't one in the hardware package in the kit, just wondered if it is suppose to have one.
Thanks again

When you get up in your 60's you will be able to slide in & out of there like a ninja in 5 seconds (or less). That screw is a preventative piece but I cannot say I have ever seen one come off of there. it is a weird thread count (iirc) but I'm sure your hardware store could fix you up. EDIT The coil would have to have sparked with you making/breaking jumping the neg primary post to ground. definitely check the plate lockdown screw cuz if it loosened once likely it will do it again cuz you tightened it up good both times. You might have to tap a new hole or possibly jam a slightly larger screw in there till it gets secure.

"When you get up in your 60's. . ." Are you kidding me? I am so far past those years, I can't remember whether they were fun or not. I am still puzzled by not getting a spark when using that negative post troubleshooting. I had run that test so many times with the same result, I was almost happy to see it spark when using the zigzag connector method. As much as I wanted it to spark, tried to get it to spark and all those times not once did I see a spark; but the first time with the zigzag, there it was. It just concerns me that somehow I might still have something not quite right. I am equally worried about that screw holding the pickup coil in adjustment. Both times I feel like I tightened it down as far as I could go without making the head of the screw look like one of those security screws used on urinal petitions in guys' restrooms. Like you, I am thinking I may have to change that screw out for something more substantial. But for now I will concentrate on getting it all put back together, re-dressing all the wires, order a spare ECU for the glovebox but most of all, enjoy driving my 5th Avenue that has been given a new lease on life(that I hope will last longer than a month this time). Again, thanks all of you for your help, especially your patience Rapid Robert. . .couldn't have done it without you.

double R is a GREAT source of help, and will assist anyone. glad you got your 5th avenue going !

MoparX thank you for the kind words. dfixer, Here I thought I was talking with a YOUNG man!. If it runs it is wired OK (in this case). For future (diagnosing) reference, (1) with all (can be just one like yours) wires off of the coil neg primary terminal terminal (2) key (A) on or (B) key to crank (3) tap tap the jumper wire you use, to ground (4) the coil wire end 1/4" from ground will/must spark if the coil is good & it is being fed (& it is in this case). the pickup zigzag connector you can get by with just dragging it across the intake surface to make/break contact. IIRC the screw is an 8-32, 3/16 long & if you have to redo the threads I would remove the center clip the pull the reluctor up & off the shaft WHILE pressing down on the shaft so the shaft/slotted plate does not come up off of the pins, then you can undo everything & seperate the 2 plates to drill/tap the hole in the upper plate (if needed).

Not only am I not young, this 5th Ave. is about to put me in my grave. Yesterday I decided to take it to town because it was near empty on fuel. Boy it started right up and away we went - about 8 miles round trip. When I got home I started and stopped it several times; there seemed to be a slight vibration, not as smooth as it usually is at idle. This evening, while I was fiddling around out in the yard, I decided to start it up to see how it was doing and I am right back to square one; turns over but will not start. Of course I thought it was that screw again but no, the gap is fine. It's dark now, so I guess I start all over again tomorrow. Hope you'll stay close. Thanks

I promise, first when the time comes, lets see if it sparking at the plug wires when someone cranks it.

There is no spark at plug wire #1. Pulled the wire off that spark plug, put in one of the old ones I just replaced (which really wasn't that worn), pushed it against the intake and my assistant cranked the engine. I moved the plug some on the intake to be sure it was making good contact but still no spark.
Just for info, I looked back over my maintenance records for this year and in addition to this conversion kit, I have changed the plugs, plug wires, cap and rotor (which were replaced with the cap and rotor in the kit), windshield wiper bushings, alternator, fuel pump, fuel filter, of course oil and filter, air filter, belts and hoses, carburetor repair kit, exhaust & emission control duct hose and fresh air intake hose. I retired in November of 2016, and wanted to get it ready to go the rest of the way with me (my sister and brother-in-law bought it new in '84 - I bought it from them in mid 1995).
What would you like for me to try next?

Lets go thru our std tests. disable the starter. drag the zigzag dist pickup connector on the intake & see if the coil wire sparks in run and in crank. if it does not spark then we'll jump the coil neg primary terminal to ground (tap tap tap) & see if the coil wire sparks in run & in crank (& it will clarify that test for us cuz with it running it had to have sparked). If dragging the zigzag connector does NOT spark the coil wire then we'll attack the dist. this'll get us started.

OK. I did the zigzag connector test first and got a strong spark in both run and start. You said earlier I could run the coil test either by pulling the bk/y lead off the negative post or by pulling the pentastar harness and since the harness is the easiest to get to I chose that path, except I forgot to pull the harness at first and I did get a very weak spark in both run and start. Then I realized I had not pulled the harness. Once I pulled the harness there was no spark in either run or start.

with the black/yellow lead off of the coil neg pri terminal & jumping the threaded coil terminal to ground (tap tap tap) with a jumper you get no coil wire spark in run/crank? (& it sparks on the "break"). Not sure what is going on there/what we are missing BUT if it (coil wire) sparks when you drag the zigzag connector across the intake then the problem is STILL in the dist.

OK, this started because one day the car would crank but not start. I figure the computer has gone bad so I install the conversion kit. It runs great for a month then back to crank but no start. Looks like the pickup coil screw didn't do its job, so I reset the gap, it runs fine for 8 miles and then the next day back to crank but no start. So if dragging the zigzag connector across the intake causes the coil wire to spark, I presume that spark is coming from the ignition coil which means it is OK even if it will not spark when I ground the negative post on the coil itself.

Let me see if I have this right. The reluctor breaks the magnetic field inducing a voltage in the pickup coil, sending that pulse through the zigzag connector on pins 4 & 5 of the pentastar connector in the ECU, that in turn fires off a signal to the ignition coil, that induces a small voltage in a small winding to be a large voltage in the larger winding going into the coil wire to the top of the dist. cap and out the rotor to the spark plug and ignites the fuel. So in the simplest terms it is a three part system, distributor, ECU and ignition coil and when we ground the zigzag connector and it sparks we have taken the place of the distributor proving that the other two thirds of the system are working (even if I can't get the coil test to spark). Is that correct?

So if it is the dist., what is it in the dist.? The reluctor turns on the shaft and that is all it can do, the pickup coil or its wiring could be bad, the cap and/or rotor could be bad. Am I right with that list? What is the next approach? Do I change the cap, the rotor, the pickup coil? My old dist. had two pickup coils. Do I sub it using just the two conductor zigzag connector?

Though I have replaced the coil and replaced the computer with the conversion kit and I am still having the same problem I started with, am I overlooking something that didn't get replaced that could cause it not to crank? But why did it work so well for a month. . .and 8 miles?

the reluctor tooth induces a slight AC voltage in the pickup coil & that "triggers" the ECU to unground the black/yellow wire from the coil neg pri terminal. the coil works opposite of other devices, it is being fed voltage & it sparks when the current is stopped & the magnetic field in that primary circuit collapses & induces a current in the secondary circuit (the large center post/wire). when you do the coil test you dont keep the coil neg primary terminal grounded like it sounded like you were saying (if I interpreted it right) but you tap tap the alligator clip to ground & it sparks when you lift it up off the intake (ungrounding it). OK, if dragging the pickup nub makes it spark in run and in crank with the ECU plugged in/everything else hooked up normal then all that is left is from the zigzag connector back to/including the pickup (electrically) & the gap (mechanically). You have provided excellent details but I feel I am inadvertently missing something. lets try this: repeat the zigzag dragging test BUT have a helper cranking the ign & see if the coil wire sparks.

I am also concerned I may be missing something and not performing these test exactly as you intended since the results are not coming back as expected.

With my helper cranking the engine (it is turning over trying to start)and I drag the exposed metal pin of the zigzag connector (from the ECU harness side of the connector) across the intake, I get what looks to me to be a very strong spark and I still get the spark if I drag the connector across the intake when she lets the ignition switch drop back to the run position.

lets do this: turn the crank CW with a 1&1/4" socket/breaker bar till the rotor tip is centered under the nearest dist cap plug wire terminal bulge. coil wire plugged in. pull the plug wire that the rotor tip is under & either put a spark plug in it & ground the plug or put a piece of metal up in the end of the plug wire boot & hold the metal end 1/4" from a ground with one hand & drag the pickup nub across the intake with your other hand & see if it sparks/or the plug gap sparks if you use a plug. try it with the key in "run" and pull the yellow wire off of the starter relay to disable the starter & have her hold the key to start as you again drag the zigzag tip across the intake & see what we get. If the "dragging" of the zigzag conector is makeing it spark then it has to be in the dist: pickup/zigzag connector a bit loose (the 2 female terminals in it)/rotor/wires/plugs cuz the pickup is what triggers the ECU & the dist distributes the fire to the 8 plug wires/plugs.

I pulled the #1 plug wire and lined the rotor up on that tower. I put one of the plugs I had replaced when I replaced the plugs and wires a few weeks ago into the end of the #1 plug wire and grounded it to the intake. I pulled the yellow wire out of the starter relay connector. I pulled the dist. pickup zigzag connector apart. I took the ECU harness-end of the zigzag connector and drug it across the intake while my wife turned the key first to the run position - got a strong spark across the plug gap - then she turned the key to the crank position - again, got a strong spark across the plug gap.

I should still have the cap and rotor, running around here somewhere, that I replaced when I did the conversion, so I guess I could try subbing them. I still have the dist. I replaced when I did the conversion (but it has two pickup coils - I suppose I would just plug the ECU harness-side zigzag into the matching two pin pickup connector?)I guess I could try subbing it. So is substitution the next best thing to try?

lets keep the same stuff on there cuz it is functioning OK (bottom line is spark at the plugs & it is doing that). Tho we gotta figure out why it ain't sparking when it is turned over with the key cuz the brown wire (crank) circuit is getting powered when she turns the key to crank (cuz the dragging is makeing it spark) (with the starter disabled) but it will not spark while cranking & the only difference that I can see so far is that the dist is in effect doing the "dragging" & the zigzag is plugged back in & it ain't doing its job for some reason. So with everything plugged back in & her cranking it there is no spark at the plug(s)? it keeps point to the dist & if that 2 magnet dist has 2 "regular" zigzag connectors we may have to install that dist & use whichever pickup gives us the best phaseing. FIRST lets do this: repeat your last test with (2) changes: plug the starter relay yellow wire back in & have her crank it while you drag the (unhooked) pickup nub (same as before) across the intake & see if the coil wire and any plug wire is sparking. EDIT see if the coil wire sparks then plug it in the dist & see if the plug wires spark.

We had a heavy mist last night and this morning, like a heavy foggy, cloudy morning. Just to be sure nothing had changed since I left it just the way I finished testing yesterday, I ran yesterday's test first this morning and it all came out the same. I then plugged the yellow wire back into the starter relay harness. I had my wife crank the engine while holding the coil wire 1/4 inch from the intake while dragging the zigzag connector's (from the ECU harness end)exposed nub across the intake - got a spark at the coil wire and the spark plug. I then plugged the coil wire into the dist. cap, had her crank the engine while I drug the zigzag connector across the intake, I had spark at the plug and the car was obviously try to come to life. Just out of curiosity, I plugged the zigzag connector back together and there was no spark at the plug and the engine was back to not even trying to start.

Some further discoveries while we were running this test, my wife moved the steering wheel to tilt it while she was getting into position and tried to start it from that position and it was dead, just like having the yellow wire off. She moved it back to her regular driving position and it cranked again. We did it several times with the same result. Looks like once I get it running again I have another problem to work on. Also, once when she had it in the no start position I happened to hit the zigzag nub on the intake and without the engine turning over it sounded like I could hear sparking coming from inside the dist. cap.

everything is pointing to the dist. this other 2 zigzag dist, maybe it is time we try it (not permanent but just to pin it down). Does this dist have 2 zigzag plug ins/2 pickups/no vac or mech adv? with the 1&1/4 socket get the nearest tooth dead even with the magnet, then install the other dist in the same position (tooth dead even with magnet/rotor under same plug wire terminal). I'm assuming the rotor phaseing is near the same with either zigzag being used (been a long time since I seen one of those) but confirm by lining up the tooth with a magnet & see if the rotor is under or near under a cap terminal bulge (centered). See if it will fire up. You wont have advance so shut it down pretty much right away as it will get hot above idle but if it starts that's all we need to know for now.

Rained off and on all day yesterday. Took the opportunity to help some friends - lots of attic time pulling wire.

The old dist has one pickup coil with a two pin connector that matches the zigzag connector I have been using to drag on the intake. The other pickup has a three pin connector that has two exposed pins and one covered. The old dist has no built-on vacuum advance like the one on the dist that came with the conversion kit. I hope to get the old dist put back in today - going to be cold but not suppose to be raining.

I guess that wasn't as good an idea as I thought it would be. I put the old dist. in but it did not work - cranked but didn't even try to fire. So I put the dist. from the conversion kit back in and checked it with the zigzag connector drag test with the coil wire in the dist cap and it still tried to start and still gave me spark on the spark plug - so hopefully I didn't get anything out of place. Does this mean I have to get Jegs to replace this dist or are there test I need to do to further pin point the exact component? If it is the dist, I wonder if they will require me to tear out and replace the whole kit.

Actually I should not have suggested it, I forgot that it ain't like th old (2) zigzag dists that had 2 regular pickups slightly offset from 180 away from each other. To the best of my knowledge it is dist related, dragging will zap the plugs but the dist hooked up will not. Howabout we call Jegs & see what they are willing to do to help us resolve this. did we ohm the pickup? & with the scale on low AC volts on the zigzag if you spin the dist by hand will it give a reading?

Well I may have messed up my opportunity on any returns. I was going to pull the dist. to spin it to check to see if I would read any AC voltage. As many times as I have put dist caps on I have never had this happen, but when I pulled the cap I discovered the spring contact on the rotor was bent badly to one side. It was so bad, even though I tried to get it straight, it left an obvious crimp mark. But I did think maybe that was the problem, got it as straight as I could, put it back together but got the same results. I took it apart and it was bent again. I just knew that must be the problem so I put in the rotor from my most recent cap, rotor, plugs and wire change out. Still no change and when I pulled the cap that spring was bent a little too and then examining the inside of the cap it had obvious cuts in the copper ring around the carbon button at the center of the cap. I am sure, once Jegs got the return they would say it didn't work because I had damaged the cap and rotor. I am beginning to feel my boat rocking in the creek and the light is getting so dim I am not sure I can find the paddle.

When I got your post last night I looked back over my notes and we had checked the pickup coil and it measured 250 ohms. I apologize, in my frustration I didn't pull the dist to check the AC voltage output of the pickup. I will try to get that done tomorrow. I guess I could just have my helper crank the engine while I measure for AC at the zigzag connector, rather than pull the dist.

is it possible that if we tossed in a new cap/rotor that we would be good? installing the cap straight down keeps the rotor tang from catching/bending but sometimes that is hard to do with the wires installed expecially if the lengths are slightly shorter than the normal amt & in that situation I pull the wires/install the cap/reinstall the wires. What would a dist cost at your parts house & what about one at a yard?.

Don't have a salvage yard here any more, so unless it is something I just can't get any other way, it is not worth the time of hassle to travel to one of the out of town yards. I ordered a new dist yesterday and picked it up this morning but it didn't have the vacuum module. O'Reily said they didn't have one with the vacuum module. It was a Specter dist, so I called the Specter tech line and the guy said they only made dist for fuel injected cars and suggested I have O'Reily try Cardone. They had to special order and after the special order fee, shipping few, and handling fee, they owed me fifteen bucks from the returned Specter dist - it will be a rebuilt for about $60. They will call me when it gets here - in a week to 10 days. The weather looks to really be cold and messy the new few days, so maybe by the time it gets here the weather will be more cooperative. I will keep you posted.

I would just get a reman points dist and drop it in. just remove the negative - wire from the coil/harness and hook the points wire to it. only need the keyed hot wire to coil.

I have done too many on the side of the road repairs to fool with any of the 35 yr old elect crap on mopars.

when I get the chance I by-pass the BR for a full 12 volts to the coil and use a pertronix coil and points conversion in a points dist.

been running them this way for over 20 yrs with the same pertronix coil and conversion kit.

just swaped my 85 truck over to points and waiting on my conversion kit to come in.

you don't have to unhook any of the stock crap for this to work. just drop the 1 negative coil wire off and run points.

at least you can drive while you troubleshoot the crap stuff.

just my 0.02$

ask for a 67-72 points dist about 28$ at AZ

if you keep elect crap order a cardon elect. dist.

I have a spare used points dist you can have if you want to save some cash while you trouble shoot. ready to drop in and run. shoot me a PM if you need it.

Sounds interesting but I have a couple of questions. You said,". . . ask for a 67 - 72 points dist about 28$ at AZ." I don't know about your Auto Zone, but at mine they only know what to ask by what their computer tells them to ask, like what's the make, model, engine, etc. If I ask for a 67-72 points distributor I will get the deer in the headlights look and I have to admit, I am not any better.
My other question is you said,". . .swapped my 85 truck over to points and waiting on my conversion kit to come in." What's in the conversion kit, where does it come from, or you still talking points conversion?
What I have on order is a Cardon - this Jegs sure doesn't seem to be working. Thanks for your offer. That conversion sounds like it would at least give me another option. Sure do want to get my '84 back on the road.

ok.

any 67-72

I always ask for a 68 dart 318 auto

67 valiant 237 auto

72 duster 318 auto 2 barrel or 4 barrel

my 85 truck has ecu/elct dist so I by-pass the BR add the flamethrower coil and a points dist with a points conversion.

MY 88-440 truck gets a 68 dodge coronet points dist with a points conversion in it.

I will get the pertronix # later but the pertronix points conversion runs about 80$ and a pertronix 40,000 volt coil about another 40$

PM me a # I can text you some pic of mine on the bench. show you what it looks like and how it is installed if you want.

I just set the .030 airgap on the conversion pick up.

it is rather easy to install, red wire to + side of coil with a keyed hot wire.
black wire to negative - side of coil (add a green wire from tach here also)

the flamethrower coil is a full 12 volt coil so you make a jumper wire for the BR (ballast resistor) to give it a full 12 volts.

leave the BR wired in if you run points and points coil. this will lower the voltage 7-8 volts so the points don't burn up with a full 12 volts.

I was showed this by a mopar tech 35 yrs ago on side of the road in a 5th ave which was rather new at the time. (make sure to use a points dist not the elect dist coil)

been working for me ever since

I sure do miss moms 82 5th ave

Did you try changing the ECU? I always have one or two good ones around for situations like this. Ditto for coils. The only thing that can really go bad in the distributor is the pickup with that plug coming off it, whcih you can you replace.

It's not a very complicated system, I wouldn't bother changing to points. That's like throwing out the tv remote and getting up to change the channel because you don't want to change the batteries.

These intermittent firing problems can usually be traced back to a loose wire or bad ground...

I've had a bad ignition switch do it as well.

Dang! Well the Cardone dist came in; it had no cap, no rotor and no vacuum module and the counter kid said that was all they offered. However, an older gentleman at the counter next to me overheard the conversation, asked what I was trying to do and told the kid to look under Dodge trucks starting from '62. When he got to '77 there it was and they could have it for me by 3 PM that afternoon.

Today, to be sure nothing was out of place, I got out the breaker bar and inch and a quarter socket and got it to TDC before putting in the new dist. I set the pickup gap at .008. While waiting on the dist to come in, I also purchased a new starter relay and I put that in too today. All that said and done and I got the same result - cranks but will not start. I am right back where I started. I have never had this much trouble trying to get a car to start. I have it on the charger right now, since I have just about run the battery down.

the symptoms sure definitely point to the dist (not triggering the ECU) but I wonder if it IS the ECU (what 5th ave said).

Well I did take some of your earlier advise and bought another ECU for the glovebox and this one is chrome, so I guess I could give it a try. I did have my helper try to start it while I drug the zigzag across the intake and that hasn't changed - it still tries to start.

I am beginning to second guess everything. Is it some of the old wiring, maybe something to do with the tilt steering, or the ignition switch, perhaps a new key and from there it's time to check the tire pressure. Oh well, all part of the fun of supporting an elderly car.

This may have been addressed in an earlier post; have you checked the voltage going to the distributer? What is the voltage coming from ignition 1 and 2?

Just read this post:

dfixer
"So I put the dist. from the conversion kit back in and checked it with the zigzag connector drag test with the coil wire in the dist cap and it still tried to start and still gave me spark on the spark plug :"

If you're getting spark at the spark plugs, then you have ignition.
Is it possible that the engine was turned without the distributer in?
If that's what happened, then you're timing is way off and causing a no start condition. Make sure you're number one piston is at top dead center on compression stroke and rotor at the number one tower.

Well I think the word BINGO my be in order. I changed out the ECU and the 5th started up. I didn't run it long. I want to get everything back together and dressed out, but it ran long enough to make me feel we have found the problem. RR I think you probably hit on it early on when you said, ". . .it wouldn't be orange would it?" There is one thing, that pentastar connector doesn't want to go all the way down, the way it did on the orange ECU. The smaller end goes down but the larger end sits up some; feels like it is just barely on. I pushed pretty hard but it didn't want to go any farther down and I didn't want to over do it. Wondering if a new harness is in order and if that may have had something to do with it all along. At this point, the harness and ballast resistor are the only things left from that conversion kit.

Darkness and rain are overtaking me. Weather predictions look good for tomorrow, so hopefully my 5th and I will be on the road again before days end. I will let you know how it goes and thanks again to you all.

Excellant. It's running. I would not change anything out. It's running. Sometimes it best to leave well enough alone. The plug will go in. You have to tighten the screw that goes into the plug. That's what holds the plug on.

add a extra ground wire to the ecu mounting bolt. it needs a good solid ground.

I do agree that running the points dist is going backwards in a way... but! when your on side of the road it is a sure fire way to get it to run back to the shop for more trouble shooting.

when you spend cash you don't have on stuff and have the hassle of tracking down crap from china and not mopar made in usa parts then to have it all NOT work is frustrating.

so I don't mind going backwards sometime if it will get me 2 steps forward in the long run. so 1 step back(points dist) and 1 step forward converting back to a more reliable elect. system(points conversion) 2nd step forward for the long run is longevity & reliability with first out lay of cash.

you can also buy the pertronix conversion to replace the leanburn system or the ecu style dist. or Mallory or firecore or MSD or ??? they all work fine too but cost $$.

I just suggest the points so it cranks/runs on the fist outlay of cash. this is way less frustration.

glad you got it going.

just file the info away for when the stock stuff crashes again as they always seem to do.

When I did the conversion, I used one of the factory engine grounds (the kind-of mesh ground strap with the toothed eyelet on the end)that was mounted to the firewall, under one of the bolts that I mounted the ECU with (also ground off the paint on the ECU mounting ear)to be sure it was well grounded. Everything I read said not getting a good ground on the ECU had been traced back in many cases to people having problems with their conversions.

I agree about your dropping back to points. It is what I would call getting back to basics. Having been a radio and a telephone tech for many years, trouble shooting for me usually meant "Are the basic elements working?" and work forward from there.

Weather looks great so I better get out there and get it done. I feel like China got me alright. It ran for almost a month and then just quit - drove it to town and back, parked in the driveway then cranked but would not fire (I am thankful it got me home and did not die in town). Now to see if Jegs will replace this what I am sure is a Made in China ECU.

I think old mopars still running points are way cool. I need something to keep me busy and I like to service mopars. finding someone now days that remember how to trouble shoot points or service a old mopar is a rare thing now days at a shop.

I have had a lot of people in my 1 horse town stop me and ask ? about their mid 80s mopars. just because I have the only stepside & 440 truck in town.

everyone has a puzzled look when I show them NO ecu and the plug just laying on the fender.

been running the 85-318 this way since 94 and I just installed it in my 440 with the mech advance locked out on 0* and 36* total. it is a beast. 230*/245* dur@.050 .518/.518 lift.

watching people go poof looking at it is way cool I say LOL!

I am back on the road again! I got out the old Sun gun and set the timing. Then I had to manufacture something to get to the half inch hold-down bolt for the dist. That vacuum module hanging off the side, that wasn't there under the old system, does make it a lot more difficult; I really had to fight it last time, this time I was determined to make it a little easier.

There was also that other problem I mentioned yesterday; the ECU connector wouldn't go on. The connector pins would only go on about 1/16th of the way into the cavities. I tried putting it on and off so many times the first 1/16th of the cavities were so shiny they almost looked chromed. I tried pulling it down with the screw, but I could tell it was about to strip out. I decide I needed to ream out the cavities (it was just the top three holding the connector off), but when that didn't seem to be making any headway, I put more light on the subject. It was then that I discovered that in the manufacturing process, some of the flashing had not been removed in the grove between the outside wall and the main body of the plug. It was Dremal time. A zip bit cleaned out the flashing from the grove and the connector went right on. I examined the orange ECU next to the new Standard Blue Streak chrome ECU and discovered the wall surrounding the connector pins was thicker on the chrome ECU than on the orange ECU, thereby not causing a problem when the harness was used with the orange ECU. Just wanted to mention that in case someone else runs into that China created issue.

I think it may be idling a bit fast. I'll drive it around a bit some and adjust it if need be after a little break-in period. Hopefully I won't be back here in a month saying, "Guess what?"

Again I really want to thank everyone for all their help and I hope that all of these post, about my problem, may someday help someone else get their vehicle back on the road again.

Well I'm glad it turned out to be something simple. Now grab a spare ecu and ballast resistor to stick in the glove box or in with the spare tire so you're not stuck out in the middle of nowhere boiling your a$$ off if something ever goes again.

easiest I found to get in there is a short 1/2" box end wrench or a 1/4" drive mini ratchet with a 1/2" socket on it.

There is a specialty wrench made to get to the distributor hold down bolt.
You can also get to it with 1/4 ratchet. Use a bunch of small extentions together to get some play, or a flop joint on the end with the socket.
You can snug it up to where it is hard to turn but can still be adjusted without loosening the bolt again.