Planning a new street build
#2421496
12/20/17 05:11 PM
12/20/17 05:11 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 136 Ontario, Canada
500ciBee
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 136
Ontario, Canada
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I'm finally at a stage in life where I can start buying parts for a new build. 10 years ago I bought a nice 400 block and didn't make any progress since. I've got a good idea of what I'm after but still need help with a few parts of the build.
The car: 70 Super Bee (pro street) 383 (needs a new cam) 750 dom Team g intake 906 heads MSD Ignition Dana 60 4:88 6 point cage Ladder bar rear SMR 727 MT Sportsman Pro 33"x21.5"x15"
This is a street car that I bought built this way. I've only ever been to the track 3 times in 10 years. It ran a best of 12.97 @ 108 with 2.12 60' Obviously the engine and TC aren't well matched. The engine works well above 4000 rpm but down low its sluggish. The car made 380hp and 390tq on a chassis dyno.
What I have in mind as my handle suggest is a 500ci low deck. I'll use what I can from the 383. I didn't have a specific hp goal in mind but I would like to build the strongest street engine that I can while keeping the rpm under 6000-6200. So far I've decided on:
440 source 512 kit TF240 heads TF Intake
Where I need help is the: Cam Valve train Carb
Last edited by 500ciBee; 12/20/17 07:52 PM.
1970 Super Bee prostreet. 383, SMR 727, Dana 60 4:88. Building a 512 low deck.
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Re: Planning a new street build
[Re: 500ciBee]
#2421610
12/20/17 09:52 PM
12/20/17 09:52 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,176 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,176
Bend,OR USA
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Before you do anything else on the block have it sonic tested by a good shop, make sure it will have at least .140 wall thickness after boring and honing on both the major and minor thrust surfaces On the camshaft , do you want a mild street cam with hydraulic lifters or solid flat tappets or are you willing to use a custom ground solid roller cam and lifters? On the rocker arm assembly buy the best out there,(don't go cheaap ) T&D single shaft 1.6 or bigger ratio or a set of Harland Sharp 1.6 or bigger ratio so you can use them with any cam and lift you like now or later Does TF offer a 4500 flange low deck intake ? If so buy it and use 1050 CFM or larger Dominator flange carb. If they don't offer the 4500 intake buy the 4150 flange intake and buy a 1000 CFM or larger 4150 carb. BTW, those rear tires might not handle the new power from the 512 C.I. low deck AKA This combination of parts assembled correctly, degree the cam, make sure all eight cylinder have the same compression ratio, same deck heights and so on will make north of 700 HP with 10.5 to1 compression on todays 92 octane pump swill Let us know on the type of cam and lifters and how big at .050 your willing to use
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Planning a new street build
[Re: 500ciBee]
#2421752
12/21/17 04:39 AM
12/21/17 04:39 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,099 Massillon, Ohio
cudatom
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,099
Massillon, Ohio
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Here is my combo. I shift at 5600 and cross the stripe in the 1/4 at 6100. Runs 11.0's at 4000lbs. Idles great and if I ever want to go back to power brakes I have plenty of vacuum.
400 bock 440 Source kit 0 deck w/Diamond flat top pistons. M1 4500 intake w/1" spacer 1050 dominator Comp Cams solid ,XS282S Harland Sharp 1.6 Rockers
My heads are not as good as the TF240's. I run Eddy Performers 84 cc. Minor bowl clean up only. The cam is small for the engine but I knew this. The car is a leaf spring car w/caltracs. Wanted a 4-4200 stall convertor, PTC got close at 4500. No problems on the street. Converter is tight and will move at idle. Absolutely love the set up.
Ok
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Re: Planning a new street build
[Re: 500ciBee]
#2421797
12/21/17 11:43 AM
12/21/17 11:43 AM
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 511 Temperance, MI
68 HEMI GTS
mopar
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mopar
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 511
Temperance, MI
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I have a similiar combo also
400 block Source kit 511 kit -24cc dish .005 positive deck / .050 gasket Standard port Indy SR (ported my MCH) SFT 260/266 (Dwayne’s cam)
I haven’t ran a modern single plane on it yet, Cleaned up TM6 with a 4150/1050 anular 10.92 @ 123.4 Cleaned up six pack 10.95 @ 122.9 ( runs identical to the tm6)
69 RoadRunner Car is 3760 + my 250 puts it at 4000# 4.10 gear and 9.5” converter 3” tti exhaust
Drive it every where including to the track. It’s just a fun low maint combo.
Like said above, buy good 1.6 rockers like Harland’s. 1000+ cfm carb
68 Dart GTS "HEMI" 10.30 @ 131 pump gas street car 3780# 69 Roadrunner 511 six pack 10.92 drive to track street car
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Re: Planning a new street build
[Re: justinp61]
#2421800
12/21/17 11:52 AM
12/21/17 11:52 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421 Balt. Md
383man
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
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Call Dwayne Porter and pick his brain, once the combo is figured out he can get you a cam that'll work. I agree as I bought my EZ heads from Dwayne and my cam also. Mine is a solid flat tappet that Dwayne speced for my combo. He recommended the solid flat tappet since I put a good bit of street miles on mine. You cant go wrong having Dwayne spec and build your cam and he will steer you right on the rest of the valvetrain. He is very good and his prices and very good. He is a nice guy who will take the time to talk to you and help out with your combo. I hear the Trick Flow heads are very good for the buck and I know Dwayne even said they are a good buy that work good for the money. I dont know how fast you are looking to go but Dwayne will help you with your complete combo. I also dont know how much you know and you will get alot of very good opinions here but if your not a mechanic and dont do alot of your own work you can get very confused on all the good advise you will get here but talking and working with Dwayne will help alot. Its best when building an eng to find one person who you trust with building engines to help you make the right decisions with all the good advise you will get. Myself I built a 440/493 and I used the Indy EZ heads I bought from Dwayne as he worked them a little and he also sold me the Indy dual plane intake which works very nice on a street car like mine. I also bought my custom grind cam from Dwayne and I am very happy with all of it. I just wanted high 10's from my street/strip car and its hit that goal with ease. Good luck with yours and that nice looking Coronet. Ron
Last edited by 383man; 12/21/17 11:54 AM.
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Re: Planning a new street build
[Re: justinp61]
#2421802
12/21/17 11:58 AM
12/21/17 11:58 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,078 Benton, IL.
DaveRS23
Special needs idiot
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Special needs idiot
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,078
Benton, IL.
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Call Dwayne Porter and pick his brain, once the combo is figured out he can get you a cam that'll work. Dwayne's the man for your valve train. And you'll want one of Dom's Dominators on top, but the B block will limit your intake choices and may force some compromises.
Master, again and still
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Re: Planning a new street build
[Re: 500ciBee]
#2423034
12/24/17 11:27 AM
12/24/17 11:27 AM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 136 Ontario, Canada
500ciBee
OP
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OP
member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 136
Ontario, Canada
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Thanks guys for the advice! I will get the block checked out before anything else. The short block will be built by the shop doing the machine work and I plan to do the rest myself. I will call Dwayne for the cam. The HS rockers are recommend by TF I believe. The TF low deck intake looks to be setup for both flange types.
I don't really have specific targets in mind for power or et at the track. Right now the car looks faster than it runs. I'm looking for a motor that will be street driven, sound aggressive and makes the most power/torque I can get while keeping the rpms around 6000.
1970 Super Bee prostreet. 383, SMR 727, Dana 60 4:88. Building a 512 low deck.
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Re: Planning a new street build
[Re: 500ciBee]
#2424085
12/26/17 08:45 PM
12/26/17 08:45 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,498 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,498
So. Burlington, Vt.
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.......I didn't have a specific hp goal in mind but I would like to build the strongest street engine that I can while keeping the rpm under 6000-6200. I like the OP's plans..... 512/ TF 240's/ TF intake. Add some Comp Ultra-Pro Magum rockers, a nice solid lifter cam, QFT Q-950 type carb...... You'd be good to go. The low deck TG manifold has the inner 4 runners really pinched down where they cast for the bolt reliefs....... Not good. The TF piece is just better. I've messed with the 4500/750's a few times. Those were basically made to satisfy the "pro street" show crowd by giving them a 4500 carb to run on their 450hp street motors. It would need new boosters and metering blocks to work properly on a 650+hp 512. IMO, better off selling it to someone who can use it as-is, and put that $$$ towards a new carb.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Planning a new street build
[Re: 500ciBee]
#2424092
12/26/17 08:56 PM
12/26/17 08:56 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,485 SoCal
Brian Hafliger
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,485
SoCal
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The 270 head would allow more rpm potential and more power potential... Hyd. roller cam around 258-262@ .050 on a 112lca and 1.7 rockers for .680 lift...should make well over 700HP with a little compression.
Brian Hafliger
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Re: Planning a new street build
[Re: 500ciBee]
#2424408
12/27/17 03:14 PM
12/27/17 03:14 PM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317 State of confusion
Thumperdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317
State of confusion
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Thanks guys for the advice! I will get the block checked out before anything else. The short block will be built by the shop doing the machine work and I plan to do the rest myself. I will call Dwayne for the cam. The HS rockers are recommend by TF I believe. The TF low deck intake looks to be setup for both flange types.
I don't really have specific targets in mind for power or et at the track. Right now the car looks faster than it runs. I'm looking for a motor that will be street driven, sound aggressive and makes the most power/torque I can get while keeping the rpms around 6000. I convert Dominators all of the time and if you don't want/need billet blocks, no problem most 4150 blocks can be set up and save ya some coin but at the minimum, billet 12-hole boosters and even a skirted banjo will get it done easy enuff............. PLEASE don't "step into the 21st century" with EFI w/an old classic MUSCLE CAR may as well drive a Toyota............
Last edited by Thumperdart; 12/27/17 03:16 PM.
72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
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Re: Planning a new street build
[Re: AndyF]
#2433790
01/13/18 09:57 AM
01/13/18 09:57 AM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 136 Ontario, Canada
500ciBee
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 136
Ontario, Canada
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The TF is a nice intake but if you want some street cred then try the intake setup on the left with your Dominator. Or just go ahead and put the TF intake on there with EFI. That will move your ride into the 21st century.
Andy, I'm not sure I want to know how much those setups cost! I read your articles and posts on here and it's the reason why is plan to go with the trick flow stuff. Thanks! I plan to use after market main caps but not sure if I should go billet steel or aluminum. What do you guys think about a girdle?
1970 Super Bee prostreet. 383, SMR 727, Dana 60 4:88. Building a 512 low deck.
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Re: Planning a new street build
[Re: JAMESDART]
#2433932
01/13/18 03:22 PM
01/13/18 03:22 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319 Puyallup, WA
StealthWedge67
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319
Puyallup, WA
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Tunnel ram with velocity stacks would look good on that car and I bet the 512 would like it too. This caught my eye; with your car.......YES! All the other intake suggestions would likely be more efficient and cost effective, but a tubbed and caged Bee with DQ’s on a tunnel Ram on the street???.... instant BadAzz Lots of solid advice here. My setup is more modest than most of these suggestions, but makes decent power below 6200 as outlined. It’s a little 451with a mild solid FT, big 4150 carb on an RPM dual plane, and should be knocking on the 10-second door this year while being a great street ride and has proven to be dead reliable. In general, I’d lean on guys like Andy & Dwayne, but for a mostly street car, I’d stay away from a roller cam for a few reasons. That’s just me, though; plenty of guys go that way. Keep us informed! Great looking car!
LemonWedge - Street heavy / Strip ready - 11.07 @ 120
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Re: Planning a new street build
[Re: 500ciBee]
#2433939
01/13/18 03:47 PM
01/13/18 03:47 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,807 Mopar Country, Mi
ccdave
The Ultimate
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The Ultimate
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,807
Mopar Country, Mi
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The TF is a nice intake but if you want some street cred then try the intake setup on the left with your Dominator. Or just go ahead and put the TF intake on there with EFI. That will move your ride into the 21st century.
Andy, I'm not sure I want to know how much those setups cost! I read your articles and posts on here and it's the reason why is plan to go with the trick flow stuff. Thanks! I plan to use after market main caps but not sure if I should go billet steel or aluminum. What do you guys think about a girdle? The 470 I am building has both aluminum caps and a girdle. I went this route because the guy I’m building the engine for won’t be gentle with the engine and I wanted to take whatever precautions available to keep the bottom end together for thousands of miles in that this car will be on the street 90% of the time. I would say that any stock blocked B.B. Mopar build making over 550 horsepower should have something to help hold the bottom end together
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Re: Planning a new street build
[Re: 500ciBee]
#2433959
01/13/18 04:23 PM
01/13/18 04:23 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,176 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,176
Bend,OR USA
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[quote=AndyF] Thanks!I plan to use after market main caps but not sure if I should go billet steel or aluminum. What do you guys think about a girdle? I won't waste my time, effort or money on a girdle as they don't add any strength to the block main webbing, which is real weak on the 440 blocks By using a good 400 block and wanting to make the bottom end stronger with after market main caps I use aluminum now as I can't buy ductile iron caps anymore I haven't and won't use steel main caps as I'm afraid it will break the main webbing by being stronger than the block is, so the weakest part fails first when stressed to the breaking point Most aluminum main caps used with good main studs will absorb a lot of movement and vibrations from detonation before being permanently damaged Good luck on your build
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Planning a new street build
[Re: 500ciBee]
#2434281
01/14/18 04:42 AM
01/14/18 04:42 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,779 Mt.Gilead, Ohio
OhioMopar
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,779
Mt.Gilead, Ohio
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Awesome car! I built a low deck 512 last summer, and am hoping to get it installed before this spring. I went with a 400 block, .040 over, and bought the 440 Source stroker kit with the lightweight crank. I upgraded the rod bolts and got the dished pistons. It has a calculated compression of 10.6:1 with a .027 thick Cometic(if I remember right). I put Trick Flow 240's on it, with an M1 single plane. It has Hughes 1.5 rockers on it with a Scott Brown solid cam I got off of Andy F. that is 248/258 .563/.555. I put Howards EDM lifters in it. I have no idea what it will make power wise, but I'm hoping for over 600. It will be getting a Thumpercarb on it, and be going in front of an 18 spline 833 and 3.54 Dana from the one and only Doctor Diff...
1969 Dart GTS 340 1969 Super Bee X9 N-96 1969 Coronet R/T X9 N-96 2015 Dodge Dart GT 2019 Ram 2500 Big Horn. Looking for the original block for my Bee. The last 4 are 7449
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