In this case, the same could be said about Edelbrock.
If they would just cast the ports and chambers of the BB victor in the right shape/size to begin with they'd have an off the shelf unported std port head that would flow 340/240 ootb.

Yet the two "revisions" to that head have actually resulted in poorer flow ootb, and require even more rework to get decent numbers out of them.

Probably not a concern for the shops with cnc porting machines, but for the guy looking to not spend $1000+ on porting, they've taken the Victor head out of the picture for most buyers.

It's really just dumb.

If the shoe fits...

A few "off the top of my head" comments that -- sort of -- fit w/ the nature of this thread...

- Regular (non-Chapman) MP Stage VIs and the current Edelbrock Victors are both in the "unfinished parts kit" category compared to new heads like the Trick Flows. The intitial buy-in cost is reasonable, but the rest of the $$$ to have someone else make them "right" quickly offsets the lower purchase price.

- IMO, Chapman 260 Stage VIs shouldn't be considered anything special these days; their OOB flow was really impressive in 2003, but the #s we've seen from standard-port Victors (& Chi-Com clones) are pretty much on par, as the data above shows. Plus, the Chapmans retain the old-style straight-plug chamber (a carry over from the legacy Stage VI design) and still require the "band-aid" intake spacers to use them on RB blocks, both of which the Victors addressed... well, at least to some point.

- Everything available today that's not a full-blown race head is still a compromise. I think it's a case of what compromises are the least of an impact on your performance goals or build limitations: Minimal hood clearnance? Don't use a raised-port head. Can't spend big $$$ on a high-end offset-intake rocker setup? Stick with something that can get away with the more affordable standard-offset rockers. For some "bread & butter" builds, there are off-the-shelf options that pretty much fit the bill. Taking it to another level, even for some semi-junk street/strip pig like mine... and especially for someone like myself who can't leave sh!t alone... means the concept of simply bolting parts together doesn't really work.

- I could probably split the difference between my old Stage VI w/ solid flat-tappet cam combo and my new Victors w/ solid roller cam combo by keeping the roller cam and switching a set of TF 240s with their matching intake (which I use already w/ the Victors). If I kept the SFT cam and switched only from the Stage VIs to the TF 240s, I doubt there would a big difference between them.

Finally... I think I've talked about this stuff about as much as I can. There's a point where you can butt heads or whatever over "What if..." until you're just frazzled, or you can build & test stuff if you really want to know what works (or not). I've had enough experience with my personal hypotheses on how things "should" work getting kicked in the teeth by the real-world results that I can't burn any more brain cells on it.

Carry on.

Seriously??? Can't this sh!t be kept on the playground or in the alley behind the strip joint with the cheap beer (and cheaper dancers)?

That's my take on it as well.

I don't know what went wrong at Edelbrock with the Victor heads. Edelbrock obviously has the resources to design great heads. My guess is that they gave the Victor head to a junior engineer who got lost in the design and for some reason the senior engineers didn't help him out. That is just my guess but it is based on 30 years of experience in corporate America R&D. I worked at places like Xerox where we invented some of the greatest stuff ever as well as complete duds. It was always due to the people on the team. Some people invent cool stuff, some people invent turds. Management is supposed to promote one and fire the other but sometimes they make mistake too.......

Anyway, that is my guess on the Victor heads. The chinese heads I chalk up to laziness. The chinese will copy a good head if you tell them to so someone over here was just too lazy to find a good head to send them.

As for Chapman, I'm not sure what went wrong there. Maybe the founder just got tired and retired? They had killer stuff but then the company shut down. Maybe something else was wrong with the company that I don't know about. That head design could've been sold to someone else but evidently it didn't happen.

Oh well, Trick Flow saw the opening in the market and stepped into it and that works for me. Their heads make enough power to break a stock block so what more do you need? If you have an aftermarket block then go ahead and step up to the B1 or Indy stuff. Seems like there are more than enough choices to go around.

If I won the lottery, and wanted a project to play with in my spare time...... I'd do a cylinder head shootout, like what they did with the intake manifolds years ago.

I'd build a nice 505 with a street roller type cam and test flog a pile of different heads on it.

Andy, the puzzling thing with the Victors is.....if Edelbrock just reworked the core plugs for the runners and chambers it would make that head much more viable.
They'd sell more heads.

I got lucky when I had to replace my W-9 head..
it was the ported version that they sold and
when I blew up the engine it damn near cut one
head in half.. I sent it to them to check it out
and they said it would be more to fix it then
to replace it.. so I ended up buying a new head...
that was only about a year before they closed the
doors

Did TF update the combustion chamber when they did all their other improvements?

I could never understand why companies like Edelbrock would build a new head with a 1959 chamber when they have the ability and modern patterns in house.

Horsepower sells and a fast burn chamber should make more.

Kevin

It will fit up yer azz............

No, people who jab get jabbed back just the way it is......I don't play well w/people who hide behind the keyboard and I do offer lots of free info and help many for zero $$$ so it is what it is..........

Yes, it's a better design.