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#2413014 - 12/04/17 09:32 AM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: RapidRobert]
NachoRT74 Offline
master

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 5093
Loc: Caracas, Venezuela, SouthAmeri...
well... I'm still wishing to get the message from Australia LOL

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#2413049 - 12/04/17 10:55 AM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: NachoRT74]
RapidRobert Offline
Circle Track

Registered: 11/20/03
Posts: 34390
Loc: Lincoln Nebraska
I did send him another PM awhile back & no answer so he must be busy. I did get a set of .001" OS lifters (3549990) from "Central jersey motorsports" & "Collectors" (both VG people to deal with) & just for fun one day I set one in another shortblock that also has very loose bores (not the one in the stock car) & it was significantly tighter, I was happily & pleasantly surprised that it made that much difference (& the OE lifter that was loose was barely broke in & it had alot of side to side play). So I am thinking that another set of .001" might resolve it on the other eng. what I need to do is pull the intake like was suggested earlier & get a good set of snap gauges & mike the bores plus do Hughes' "thunk" test especially since it is his cam. I'm like you still wondering if the .008's are needed if we can hand hone carefully. EDIT & there is the guy here who has a set of .008's for $300 (+ the ride!) & that is in the US of A!. Has Santa been good to you down there? I'll let you have first crack at em.


Edited by RapidRobert (12/04/17 10:57 AM)
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#2413052 - 12/04/17 10:57 AM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: RapidRobert]
NachoRT74 Offline
master

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 5093
Loc: Caracas, Venezuela, SouthAmeri...
mmmm wondering if .001 could be enough for me

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#2413098 - 12/04/17 12:31 PM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: NachoRT74]
dogdays Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 16270
I don't think there is a way to use a wheel cylinder hone and get a cylindrical lifter bore as a result. Blocks have the cylinders honed with a rigid hone and even then it is easy to mess up a cylinder if honing by hand.

I'd be going the other way, working on ways to make the stock lifter bigger. They could be hard chromed and centerless ground, for example. We used to tighten up clearances in industrial Roots blowers by Teflon lining the casing. In that case the rotors would clearance the cases.

Some kind of anti friction coating that went on a mil thick might work. Shoot, copper plate them and then grind to size. Electroless nickel coating is supposed to provide very uniform thicknesses.


R.


Edited by dogdays (12/04/17 12:33 PM)

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#2413111 - 12/04/17 12:48 PM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: dogdays]
dogdays Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 16270
Read this and see if it doesn't look like what you need:

http://chemresearchco.com/electroless-nickel-plating/

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#2413117 - 12/04/17 12:56 PM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: RapidRobert]
NachoRT74 Offline
master

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 5093
Loc: Caracas, Venezuela, SouthAmeri...
sounds interesting BUT is hard to tell the worn lifter bores are oval or cilindrical ( I'd say they worn oval due the angled position ), so if that coating is appplied to the lifters how to "cut" them to match the bore ?

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#2413241 - 12/04/17 05:59 PM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: RapidRobert]
Alchemi Offline


Registered: 02/24/14
Posts: 171
Loc: Brisvegas, Australia
The lifters have to rotate to work
Oval lifters would only work with a roller cam
Hmmmmmm

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#2413339 - 12/04/17 09:08 PM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: RapidRobert]
NachoRT74 Offline
master

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 5093
Loc: Caracas, Venezuela, SouthAmeri...
I meant not because they are oval, but get wear like an oval

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#2413470 - 12/05/17 05:24 AM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: RapidRobert]
Alchemi Offline


Registered: 02/24/14
Posts: 171
Loc: Brisvegas, Australia
The lifters themselves if rotating properly would be cylindrical with the potential for some taper to the top and or bottom as they wear

To achieve what you are suggesting, you would have to coat just the ovaled part of the bore

Clearance wise even if the bores are ok in "width" but worn on the "thrust" parts of the bore - it would wear in an X or hourglass shape in a direction modified by the twist of the lifter as it rotates, a very complex 3D shape to be sure


Edited by Alchemi (12/05/17 05:27 AM)

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#2413480 - 12/05/17 07:21 AM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: RapidRobert]
NachoRT74 Offline
master

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 5093
Loc: Caracas, Venezuela, SouthAmeri...
hard to reach that, that's why I find not easy what dogdays suggested with that product... better simply machine the bores ( of a hone job with care... I guess )...

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#2413834 - 12/05/17 06:26 PM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: NachoRT74]
dogdays Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 16270
You guys are making things way too difficult.

Blazin' Bob had too much oil squirting out around his lifters. He was looking for oversize lifters. They would be cylindrical, just like the originals, only 0.001" or more larger in diameter. Still cylindrical.

These oversize lifters are hard to find and usually expensive.

He finally found a set of 0.001" oversize lifters (cylindrical) NO MATTER what his lifter bores looked like, the slightly larger lifters cut down the looseness in his test block.

BB seems to think he could get all 16 lifter bores bored and sleeved for $300. That would be an extremely low price according to me. I have seen prices quoted at around $800 for the job. That puts the operation out of reach for many.

If you cant make the hole smaller make the lifter bigger. That doesn't seem to be too hard to follow. I didn't say make the lifters oval or any other shape. Besides, if you could make a lifter with a barrel shape or conversely wider at top and bottom and skinnier in the middle to match the lifter bore barrel shape (looking from the side), how would you assemble the valvetrain? Given any sort of thought the suggestion is ludicrous.
BUT if you could make the lifters 0.001" or 0.002" larger in diameter while keeping them cylindrical, it'd cut down on the slop just like BB discovered in his spare block.

So how to make the lifters larger in diameter but remain cylindrical? Plate them. The write-ups on electroless nickel plating say that the nickel deposits at a very uniform rate. They also say the plated nickel is quite hard.

My conclusion is that for a block with worn out lifter bores it may be possible to salvage the block without spending a zillion dollars on sleeving the lifter bores. This would be done by increasing the cylindrical diameter of the lifters by the amount necessary by electroless nickel plating. The fit wouldn't be perfect but it would be better. Now all we need to do is check on the price.

See how easy it is?

R.

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#2413837 - 12/05/17 06:32 PM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: dogdays]
RapidRobert Offline
Circle Track

Registered: 11/20/03
Posts: 34390
Loc: Lincoln Nebraska
Quote:
You guys are making things way too difficult.

BB seems to think he could get all 16 lifter bores bored and sleeved for $300.
(1) that's our job (2) actually it was the one company has a set of .008's for 3 bills
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live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

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#2413877 - 12/05/17 07:48 PM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: dogdays]
BSB67 Offline
master

Registered: 02/19/05
Posts: 3636
Loc: Prospect, PA
Originally Posted By dogdays
You guys are making things way too difficult.

Blazin' Bob had too much oil squirting out around his lifters. He was looking for oversize lifters. They would be cylindrical, just like the originals, only 0.001" or more larger in diameter. Still cylindrical.

These oversize lifters are hard to find and usually expensive.

He finally found a set of 0.001" oversize lifters (cylindrical) NO MATTER what his lifter bores looked like, the slightly larger lifters cut down the looseness in his test block.

BB seems to think he could get all 16 lifter bores bored and sleeved for $300. That would be an extremely low price according to me. I have seen prices quoted at around $800 for the job. That puts the operation out of reach for many.

If you cant make the hole smaller make the lifter bigger. That doesn't seem to be too hard to follow. I didn't say make the lifters oval or any other shape. Besides, if you could make a lifter with a barrel shape or conversely wider at top and bottom and skinnier in the middle to match the lifter bore barrel shape (looking from the side), how would you assemble the valvetrain? Given any sort of thought the suggestion is ludicrous.
BUT if you could make the lifters 0.001" or 0.002" larger in diameter while keeping them cylindrical, it'd cut down on the slop just like BB discovered in his spare block.

So how to make the lifters larger in diameter but remain cylindrical? Plate them. The write-ups on electroless nickel plating say that the nickel deposits at a very uniform rate. They also say the plated nickel is quite hard.

My conclusion is that for a block with worn out lifter bores it may be possible to salvage the block without spending a zillion dollars on sleeving the lifter bores. This would be done by increasing the cylindrical diameter of the lifters by the amount necessary by electroless nickel plating. The fit wouldn't be perfect but it would be better. Now all we need to do is check on the price.

See how easy it is?

R.


God bless ya.
_________________________
500" NA, Eddy head, pump gas, exhaust manifold with 2 1/2 exhaust with tailpipes 4150 lbs with driver, 3.23 gear, stock converter 11.68 @ 120.2 mph

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#2413888 - 12/05/17 08:00 PM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: BSB67]
RapidRobert Offline
Circle Track

Registered: 11/20/03
Posts: 34390
Loc: Lincoln Nebraska
Every Dog has its day
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#2413902 - 12/05/17 08:19 PM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: RapidRobert]
NachoRT74 Offline
master

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 5093
Loc: Caracas, Venezuela, SouthAmeri...
I'm just posting about the posibility if the bores weared out uneven ( oval due the lifters position or tappered ), wouldn't the electroless nickel plating fill the bore also uneven parallel to the weared out bore if applying to the bore? Or applying to the lifter, some areas of the bore will be tighter against the lifter than others?

Just thinking out loud, not saying I'm right or wrong. How critical could be this?

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#2414201 - 12/06/17 11:35 AM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: RapidRobert]
fast68plymouth Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 11466
Loc: So. Burlington, Vt.
Hone .008 out of the lifter bores with a spring hone(and expect acceptable results)......that's funny.
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#2414218 - 12/06/17 12:00 PM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: RapidRobert]
EV2Bird Offline
No more politics

Registered: 06/23/14
Posts: 4488
Loc: Kansas Roads Between 0 and 140...
I think your just going to have to come to terms that you jacked the block with the brake hone and vs dumping more money on more money just prep another block and be done.

This kinda throws your kiss method out the window with all the crazy water mods and now the lifter deal, ive never ruined a block but I have a head or two over the years and at times ya just got to toss some things in the junk pile and move on.

I know it sucks but waiting on a return email for bigger lifters, $300-$800 to bush your current block...if it were me id sit back and regroup. What $100 for a different block $300 for a bore/hone and your back on the "right" path.

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#2414288 - 12/06/17 02:06 PM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: RapidRobert]
fast68plymouth Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 11466
Loc: So. Burlington, Vt.
Not to mention...... If there's a problem breaking the cam in, or you want to try a different cam...... You're looking for another set of unobtainium lifters.
_________________________
68 Plymouth Satellite, 383, stock 906's, 3550lbs, 11.18 @ 123, 1.51 60'
WD- Comp Cams / Indy Cylinder Heads

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#2414316 - 12/06/17 03:04 PM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: fast68plymouth]
RapidRobert Offline
Circle Track

Registered: 11/20/03
Posts: 34390
Loc: Lincoln Nebraska
Yes I uncharacteristly totally lost it on this one. I'm gonna breakin the .001 lifters (that I now have in hand) & (if) no go then start with another block as suggested. Thanks guys.
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live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

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#2414364 - 12/06/17 05:10 PM Re: are oversize hyd lifters available? 360 SB [Re: RapidRobert]
EV2Bird Offline
No more politics

Registered: 06/23/14
Posts: 4488
Loc: Kansas Roads Between 0 and 140...
Good luck, I hope it does fix things for now at least.

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