MSD distributor taking timing out
#2403085
11/13/17 04:19 PM
11/13/17 04:19 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,042 Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave
OP
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Posts: 8,042
Mt Morris Michigan
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I have the same issue with my MSD distributor in the 511 that i had with the 408. When i rev the engine 3-4* timing comes out or retards. I fixed the SB issue by adding a crank trigger. Don't want to spend any more money right now and i think i might know why these distributors have this issue. Its not uncommon, just look it up. I believe the oil pump shaft gear is lifting when engine is rev'ed and turning as it lifts causing the timing to retard a bit. How can i stop the oil pump shaft from lifting? Thanks
Last edited by mopar dave; 11/13/17 04:19 PM.
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Re: MSD distributor taking timing out
[Re: mopar dave]
#2403125
11/13/17 05:32 PM
11/13/17 05:32 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
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Lincoln Nebraska
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I would drive out the roll pin & add some flat (non beveled) shims to reduce the axial play to .005" & you may need to in addition add the collar but first lightly twist the rotor back & forth with the dist still installed, not enough to get into the springs & see how much rotational play you have right now (you want very near none). speedway motors has a kit for $10. this may not be the issue for this situation but it is good to address it (it mainly causes spark scatter when timing it on the dampener) & a sloppy timing chain will do the same thing & a sloppy chain will skew cam degreeing readings.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: MSD distributor taking timing out
[Re: mopar dave]
#2403131
11/13/17 05:44 PM
11/13/17 05:44 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,611 Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
Mr. Helpful
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Mr. Helpful
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Posts: 11,611
Fulton County, PA
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Someone (Mopar Performance?) sold a shim kit for on the shaft to move it up and minimize end play between the two. I would think timing chain slack, cam twist, timing light electronics not keeping up, etc., would all contribute to this. They all bounce to some degree. All reasons for using a crank trigger.
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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Re: MSD distributor taking timing out
[Re: mopar dave]
#2403326
11/14/17 12:34 AM
11/14/17 12:34 AM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,611 Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
Mr. Helpful
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Mr. Helpful
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Posts: 11,611
Fulton County, PA
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I think they commonly shim the shaft up to reduce the play between the shaft and the distributor. Adding material to the tang of the distributor shaft and then machining or grinding it up to proper length is another option. Either way, it would have to be tuned with the intake or oil pump off to accurately adjust the end play without having it bind.
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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Re: MSD distributor taking timing out
[Re: mopar dave]
#2403371
11/14/17 02:18 AM
11/14/17 02:18 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
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Lincoln Nebraska
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set the collar on the end of the shaft reasonably snug then install the dist which will push it up then pull the dist & loctite the setscrew with the collar located at the height that it gets pushed up to.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: MSD distributor taking timing out
[Re: mopar dave]
#2403592
11/14/17 05:31 PM
11/14/17 05:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
Taking time off to work on my car
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Taking time off to work on my car
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Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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So the collar fits on the end of the distributor shaft? Any idea how much clearance is needed? IIRC, the instructions with the collar I bought from Hughes said .006 or .008... not much!
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Re: MSD distributor taking timing out
[Re: mopar dave]
#2403616
11/14/17 06:40 PM
11/14/17 06:40 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457 Washington
madscientist
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Ok. Was gonna see if i could find one at the bolt store. Think ill just order one from Hughes. Any good hardware store will have what you need for less money.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: MSD distributor taking timing out
[Re: mopar dave]
#2403639
11/14/17 07:19 PM
11/14/17 07:19 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457 Washington
madscientist
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What size is the msd distributor shaft? I think...going by my used up memory...the shaft should measure .485-.490 so a set collar with a 1/2 hole will work. Forgot to mention they usually only have one set screw. I put two more in the collar so I have three. I'm just chicken like that.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: MSD distributor taking timing out
[Re: mopar dave]
#2403968
11/15/17 02:20 PM
11/15/17 02:20 PM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,318 State of confusion
Thumperdart
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I Live Here
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State of confusion
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Ill see if i can find a collar that fits snug on the shaft. Thanks I shimmed mine years ago to have .002-.003 up n down movement and added a rubber/nylon bushing instead of the collar and it compresses nicely when the lock down is tightened. I also added a new bronze gear and had Pettis machine the difference off the gear to add a 3-piece torrington bearing deal and the timing is more stable than ever..........The bronze bushing and gear don't seem to play well together and wear quickly.........
72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
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Re: MSD distributor taking timing out
[Re: mopar dave]
#2403989
11/15/17 03:05 PM
11/15/17 03:05 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457 Washington
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Ok thanks Dom. Ill see if i can find something in nylon instead of metal. Dom has a good point about taking the play out of the distributor shaft as well. I always do it, just forgot to mention it. If you do both your timing will be rock steady.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: MSD distributor taking timing out
[Re: mopar dave]
#2404072
11/15/17 05:57 PM
11/15/17 05:57 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,369 Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
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I Live Here
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Marion, South Carolina [><]
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Go to Tractor Supply and get a 1/2" collar for $1.25...unless you just like paying $20+ for the same part. I've had one in my hemi for probably 5 years now. Fixed the same issue you're having.
CHIP '70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60 '71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75 '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75 '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: MSD distributor taking timing out
[Re: mopar dave]
#2404127
11/15/17 07:13 PM
11/15/17 07:13 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,369 Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Marion, South Carolina [><]
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IIRC it fit pretty good. Like I said, been in there for around 5 years...no trouble. Must be good.
CHIP '70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60 '71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75 '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75 '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: MSD distributor taking timing out
[Re: mopar dave]
#2404133
11/15/17 07:20 PM
11/15/17 07:20 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457 Washington
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Does the tsc collar fit the shaft snug? They don't have to fit real tight. Like I said...I'm a chicken so I add two more set screws. I've never had one come loose and I've done probably 40 of them over the years.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: MSD distributor taking timing out
[Re: mopar dave]
#2404149
11/15/17 07:47 PM
11/15/17 07:47 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457 Washington
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Ok. Then ill just go to tsc then. I may already have one. Just have to go thru my nuts and bolts can. Second thought, ill go to tsc. Its quicker. I've spent hours looking for a bolt I could have run to town and bought. Someday I'll organize that stuff better.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: MSD distributor taking timing out
[Re: mopar dave]
#2404226
11/15/17 10:02 PM
11/15/17 10:02 PM
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 326 Alberta
Wookie316
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enthusiast
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Alberta
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Anyone have a a reference photo they can post? I am pretty sure I understand but a Photo would be great. Thanks.
1971 Plum Crazy Super Bee. 572 World Aluminum block with a Cope 727 & Dana 4.10 out back. 9.88 @ 138 with a 1.35 60 NA. Dialed back to 10.0’s. 4000 lbs with me in it.
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Re: MSD distributor taking timing out
[Re: mopar dave]
#2406000
11/19/17 05:52 PM
11/19/17 05:52 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457 Washington
madscientist
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So it's an ICE ignition and MSD distributor? Doesn't ICE make a distributor?
For most of my life I used a magneto because I hate electronic stuff.
I'm not a fan of mix and match stuff.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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