Re: 440+6 want's to keep running!
[Re: 72 RR DUDE]
#2368421
09/10/17 07:11 PM
09/10/17 07:11 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157 Mass
DAYCLONA
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
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Ok so i went to a car show today and when i got to the show and when i got home and shut it off it wanted to keep running. So what are the things that would cause that. When it finally stopped running backwards there was a little smoke coming out the center carb. Both times the car started right back up. dieseling or run is generally caused by hot carbon build up in the cylinders, or lean fuel, or timing conditions causing the sparkplugs to be very hot igniting residual gas/fumes in the cylinders after the ignition is off, regardless of the "ignition" source, as the engine continues to "run on" it can still pull fuel into the combustion chamber running on for some time at times, the factory's cure for this was to have an "idle" solenoid, that would energize at start up and maintain curb idle, then when the ignition was shut off, De-energize and completely shut off air flow thru the carb by completely closing the throttle blades You need to find the cause of your dieseling, it could be carbon build up, cheap gas, timing, air fuel ratio, etc, etc...a solenoid is merely a bandaid to the problem
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Re: 440+6 want's to keep running!
[Re: DAYCLONA]
#2368452
09/10/17 08:28 PM
09/10/17 08:28 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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what is your idle speed? but yes there is something else contributing/going on.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: 440+6 want's to keep running!
[Re: 72 RR DUDE]
#2368479
09/10/17 09:08 PM
09/10/17 09:08 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,173 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,173
Bend,OR USA
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What do you know about this motor and compression ratio and fuel type used? If the gas is old (more than 90 days)it will diesel a lot easier than fresh gas will Remove two spark plugs, #1 and #2 and look at them, post a picture of them on here if you can The spark plugs can tell you a lot if you know how to read them correctly
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: 440+6 want's to keep running!
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2368501
09/10/17 09:53 PM
09/10/17 09:53 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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& Wallace racing has good plug reading pics/info.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: 440+6 want's to keep running!
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2368510
09/10/17 10:02 PM
09/10/17 10:02 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 668 Hamburg, Pa.
72 RR DUDE
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 668
Hamburg, Pa.
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I believe that i have the timing set at stock setting which i believe is 5 degrees BTDC. The engine is 30 over with 915 hp heads and the old MP purple shaft 484 cam. I'm running Sunoco 91 octane ethanel free gas.Both times it did it was after a fairly long idle.Have have the idle set at 900 in park and it drops to about 600 in gear.
Last edited by 72 RR DUDE; 09/10/17 10:14 PM.
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Re: 440+6 want's to keep running!
[Re: 72 RR DUDE]
#2368527
09/10/17 10:23 PM
09/10/17 10:23 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,886 Lost and Spaced
bboogieart
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,886
Lost and Spaced
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Obviously not the cure, but works till you get it sorted. Did you try to use reverse? That would be the steepest gear.
I have mechanical Aptitude. I can screw up anything.
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Re: 440+6 want's to keep running!
[Re: 72 RR DUDE]
#2368531
09/10/17 10:30 PM
09/10/17 10:30 PM
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,075 CA
crackedback
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,075
CA
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I believe that i have the timing set at stock setting which i believe is 5 degrees BTDC. The engine is 30 over with 915 hp heads and the old MP purple shaft 484 cam. I'm running Sunoco 91 octane ethanel free gas.Both times it did it was after a fairly long idle.Have have the idle set at 900 in park and it drops to about 600 in gear. 5 degrees initial, good luck there. A 484 cam is going to need anywhere from 15-25 or more initial timing to get a decent idle profile. Try tuning more initial into it and reset the idle speed/mixture screws. Try 20 initial. See if it shuts off OK. Then shorten up the mechanical to hit your to hit your total number.
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Re: 440+6 want's to keep running!
[Re: crackedback]
#2368571
09/10/17 11:47 PM
09/10/17 11:47 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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A 484 cam is going to need anywhere from 15-25 or more initial timing to get a decent idle profile. Agreed, I'm running 19 on a bone stock 85 318 (+ cam adv 4 deg). I bet if you bump up your initial to 20 then retune it for that amt (lower the idle speed/tweak mixture screws) that the run on will dissappear. & then you would need to shorten the slots to keep the total at the known good ballpark 36-38.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: 440+6 want's to keep running!
[Re: 72 RR DUDE]
#2369012
09/11/17 08:39 PM
09/11/17 08:39 PM
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 406 California City, CA
dart440
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 406
California City, CA
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The first question should be: Are you running an idle solenoid? If not, then the throttle is open to far (idle speed too high) and most likely the cause of the dieseling...the factory put them there for this very reason. See Dayclona's post above. Advancing the base ignition timing will allow you to close the throttle blades further at idle and should help with the dieseling...but check the total advance and limit the mechanical advance as necessary.
When you work on Spaceships for a living, how bad can a workday be?
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Re: 440+6 want's to keep running!
[Re: 72 RR DUDE]
#2369128
09/12/17 12:18 AM
09/12/17 12:18 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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0.0632683" around the dampener circumference is (1) degree. 2&1/4" (2.246") is 35.5 degrees. CW from the TDC (OE) timing slit. EDIT you could use the dampener timing tab as a ruler if you have a straight shot access to reach it (no angle) but I think it is easier to cut a strip of paper & mark it at 15-17.5-20-22.5-25-27.5-30-35 or whatever you need with the math & calipers then use it as a ruler to make white paint marks on the dampener. clean it well first so they will last. getting the TDC slit at 6 o'clock makes it the easiest to get to.
Last edited by RapidRobert; 09/12/17 12:41 AM.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: 440+6 want's to keep running!
[Re: 72 RR DUDE]
#2372369
09/17/17 08:39 PM
09/17/17 08:39 PM
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,075 CA
crackedback
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,075
CA
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OK so I got it much better. I advanced the timing to 15 degrees and thats all i could get because the idle screw is adjusted as far as it will go. It idles at 900 and i don,t have as much drop when in gear it is about 700. I also mixed AV gas with Sunoco 91 ethanol free gas. Shut it off and restarted it about 10 times and is perfect! Also the pipes are nice and grey. The reason i went with AV gas is to increase the octane because a drag racer said the pump gas of today isn't enough for my combo. Try closing the secondaries a bit to get idle control with the idle speed screw. It may require removing the carb, using a hex key to back the stop screw on pass side out a bit
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