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Setting Tension on Roller Rockers #2366566
09/06/17 07:21 PM
09/06/17 07:21 PM
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Spokane Valley, WA
Big Bad Bee Offline OP
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I just broke in my fresh 440. It has Harland Sharpe roller rockers. It's really noisy with clatter. The builder said he likes to set them up "loose" and I may want to tighten them down once I get the engine broken in. I've heard other mopar guys complain about this builder doing the same to them on their RB engine.

Can one of you engine builders give me the 411 on how to properly set the tension on them so that I don't go deaf under the hood?


I’m listening.
Re: Setting Tension on Roller Rockers [Re: Big Bad Bee] #2366569
09/06/17 07:24 PM
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I always go tighter that the recommended lash and have never had a problem. My Isky solid roller calls for .028 hot and I set em at .014 cold w/alum. heads and end up around .020 hot......you can also tighten up the side clearances to quiet em up a bit........... thumbs


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: Setting Tension on Roller Rockers [Re: Big Bad Bee] #2366695
09/06/17 11:13 PM
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Which heads, aluminum or iron and what is the suggested hot valve lash for your cam?
Looser than stock is not the way I would break in a new cam or motor tsk


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Setting Tension on Roller Rockers [Re: Big Bad Bee] #2366699
09/06/17 11:20 PM
09/06/17 11:20 PM
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Cotati, CA
Dave Hall Offline
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Hydraulic or solid cam?

Re: Setting Tension on Roller Rockers [Re: Big Bad Bee] #2366752
09/07/17 01:05 AM
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"loose" just means the cam is beating the crap out of the lifter and the rocker is slamming it to the valve tip.

Lash is something I'll admit I never understood. In my mind, you should have ZERO lash (or maybe only a couple thou to make sure the valve seats) at normal operating temperatures. More lash just increases the chance of damage - particularly where rollers of any sort are involved.

Re: Setting Tension on Roller Rockers [Re: Big Bad Bee] #2366896
09/07/17 12:17 PM
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True: needles don't tolerate crash landing very well.


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Re: Setting Tension on Roller Rockers [Re: Big Bad Bee] #2366963
09/07/17 02:26 PM
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What cam do you have? I would get it lashed per manufacturer specifications and go from there. As I understand, the ramp of the lobe plays into the lash setting and the manufacturer should know best what that setting is based on the cam profile.


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Re: Setting Tension on Roller Rockers [Re: Cab_Burge] #2366972
09/07/17 02:47 PM
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Spokane Valley, WA
Big Bad Bee Offline OP
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Originally Posted By Cab_Burge
Which heads, aluminum or iron and what is the suggested hot valve lash for your cam?
Looser than stock is not the way I would break in a new cam or motor tsk


Cab, The heads are cast iron closed chamber. The cam is a Comp Cams XE274H hydraulic.
http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/cam-specs/Details.aspx?csid=709&sb=2


I’m listening.
Re: Setting Tension on Roller Rockers [Re: Big Bad Bee] #2366985
09/07/17 03:03 PM
09/07/17 03:03 PM
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Dave Hall Offline
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Should be zero lash with maybe a 1/4 or 1/2 turn more for lifter preloading. Hydraulic cams were made to be quiet. There should be no tappet noise coming from the engine.

Re: Setting Tension on Roller Rockers [Re: Dave Hall] #2366994
09/07/17 03:17 PM
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Big Bad Bee Offline OP
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Here's what I found on the web. Is it correct?

Most auto repair manuals will list procedures for adjusting two valves at a time while following the firing order. And while adjustments can be made that way, for performance cams COMP Cams advises a more precise method.

When the exhaust valve just begins to open on the number 1 cylinder, adjust the number 1 intake valve. Loosen the adjusting nut slightly until lash can be felt in the rocker arm. While spinning the pushrod with your fingers tighten the adjusting nut—when a slight resistance is felt the valve is at zero lash, or the point where all the slack is removed. Turn the adjusting nut an additional 1/4 to 3/4 of a turn past this point (depending on the cam manufacturer’s specs) to achieve optimal preload on the lifter. Follow this procedure to adjust each intake valve according to the firing order.


To adjust the exhaust valves a similar procedure is used. Turn the engine over until the intake pushrod moves all the way up. Rotate just past maximum lift, where the intake will begin to close. The lifter is now at the base circle, and the exhaust valve can be adjusted. Do not go too far down (over halfway) past the point of maximum lift. If you go too far, you will be in the overlap cycle—where intake valve lash is being taken up as the exhaust valve begins to open. Then follow the same steps of spinning the pushrods and tightening the adjustment nuts.


I’m listening.
Re: Setting Tension on Roller Rockers [Re: Big Bad Bee] #2366997
09/07/17 03:24 PM
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Big Bad Bee Offline OP
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it's been 3 years but I do believe that the builder said that he sets them at zero lash and that if it's too noisy, to crank them down 3/4 turn. This may explain things. I am not about to just popping the covers and cranking them down. I want them absolutely right.


I’m listening.
Re: Setting Tension on Roller Rockers [Re: Dave Hall] #2367002
09/07/17 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted By Dave Hall
Should be zero lash with maybe a 1/4 or 1/2 turn more for lifter preloading. Hydraulic cams were made to be quiet. There should be no tappet noise coming from the engine.


This and the stocker motors I worked on at Pettis would set em at zero.......... biggrin


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: Setting Tension on Roller Rockers [Re: Big Bad Bee] #2367078
09/07/17 05:45 PM
09/07/17 05:45 PM
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Cotati, CA
Dave Hall Offline
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Originally Posted By Big Bad Bee
Here's what I found on the web. Is it correct?

Most auto repair manuals will list procedures for adjusting two valves at a time while following the firing order. And while adjustments can be made that way, for performance cams COMP Cams advises a more precise method.

When the exhaust valve just begins to open on the number 1 cylinder, adjust the number 1 intake valve. Loosen the adjusting nut slightly until lash can be felt in the rocker arm. While spinning the pushrod with your fingers tighten the adjusting nut—when a slight resistance is felt the valve is at zero lash, or the point where all the slack is removed. Turn the adjusting nut an additional 1/4 to 3/4 of a turn past this point (depending on the cam manufacturer’s specs) to achieve optimal preload on the lifter. Follow this procedure to adjust each intake valve according to the firing order.


To adjust the exhaust valves a similar procedure is used. Turn the engine over until the intake pushrod moves all the way up. Rotate just past maximum lift, where the intake will begin to close. The lifter is now at the base circle, and the exhaust valve can be adjusted. Do not go too far down (over halfway) past the point of maximum lift. If you go too far, you will be in the overlap cycle—where intake valve lash is being taken up as the exhaust valve begins to open. Then follow the same steps of spinning the pushrods and tightening the adjustment nuts.

This is correct! Remove the valve covers, bump the engine over and do just like the procedure says. It's easy and will be a good learning experience for you.

Re: Setting Tension on Roller Rockers [Re: Dave Hall] #2367113
09/07/17 06:38 PM
09/07/17 06:38 PM
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Big Bad Bee Offline OP
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Originally Posted By Dave Hall
Originally Posted By Big Bad Bee
Here's what I found on the web. Is it correct?

Most auto repair manuals will list procedures for adjusting two valves at a time while following the firing order. And while adjustments can be made that way, for performance cams COMP Cams advises a more precise method.

When the exhaust valve just begins to open on the number 1 cylinder, adjust the number 1 intake valve. Loosen the adjusting nut slightly until lash can be felt in the rocker arm. While spinning the pushrod with your fingers tighten the adjusting nut—when a slight resistance is felt the valve is at zero lash, or the point where all the slack is removed. Turn the adjusting nut an additional 1/4 to 3/4 of a turn past this point (depending on the cam manufacturer’s specs) to achieve optimal preload on the lifter. Follow this procedure to adjust each intake valve according to the firing order.


To adjust the exhaust valves a similar procedure is used. Turn the engine over until the intake pushrod moves all the way up. Rotate just past maximum lift, where the intake will begin to close. The lifter is now at the base circle, and the exhaust valve can be adjusted. Do not go too far down (over halfway) past the point of maximum lift. If you go too far, you will be in the overlap cycle—where intake valve lash is being taken up as the exhaust valve begins to open. Then follow the same steps of spinning the pushrods and tightening the adjustment nuts.

This is correct! Remove the valve covers, bump the engine over and do just like the procedure says. It's easy and will be a good learning experience for you.


I'll give it a go. not afraid to try anything, but always want to go in with the right info!


I’m listening.
Re: Setting Tension on Roller Rockers [Re: Dave Hall] #2367117
09/07/17 06:56 PM
09/07/17 06:56 PM
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Thats right but you can forget about the
overlap part of it.. its still closed so it
can be adjusted to the right spec
wave

Re: Setting Tension on Roller Rockers [Re: Big Bad Bee] #2367118
09/07/17 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted By Big Bad Bee
Here's what I found on the web. Is it correct?



When the exhaust valve just begins to open on the number 1 cylinder, adjust the number 1 intake valve. Loosen the adjusting nut slightly until lash can be felt in the rocker arm. While spinning the pushrod with your fingers tighten the adjusting nut—when a slight resistance is felt the valve is at zero lash, or the point where all the slack is removed. Turn the adjusting nut an additional 1/4 to 3/4 of a turn past this point (depending on the cam manufacturer’s specs) to achieve optimal preload on the lifter. Follow this procedure to adjust each intake valve according to the firing order.


To adjust the exhaust valves a similar procedure is used. Turn the engine over until the intake pushrod moves all the way up. Rotate just past maximum lift, where the intake will begin to close. The lifter is now at the base circle, and the exhaust valve can be adjusted. Do not go too far down (over halfway) past the point of maximum lift. If you go too far, you will be in the overlap cycle—where intake valve lash is being taken up as the exhaust valve begins to open. Then follow the same steps of spinning the pushrods and tightening the adjustment nuts.


I call BS on that second part. After the end of the intake cycle comes the compression and power cycles. Overlap is after the exhaust cycle. I take the intake to near closed and adjust the exhaust. This produces repeatable results. If you don't adjust at the same crank position every time the loading of the valve springs will cause the numbers to change making for more work as they'll all seem off a little.
The hard part about hydraulics is that lifters can bleed down varying amounts, totally screwing with your 'feel' when you try to find zero lash. I've never had an adjustable hydraulic but have seen some near catastrophic results from others who didn't get it right.
twocents

Re: Setting Tension on Roller Rockers [Re: Big Bad Bee] #2367131
09/07/17 07:13 PM
09/07/17 07:13 PM
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You are very close, only thing I would add is spin the pushrod with your finger tips (thumb and finger) until you feel it starting to tugg then give the adjuster a 1/4 to 1/2 turn.

I always use the following:

Exhaust starts to open adjust the intake.

Intake opens all the way and starts to close adjust the exhaust.

I do one cylinder at a time that way I don't forget to do one or the other.

A remote start button is a great tool for this.

GOOD LUCK!

Re: Setting Tension on Roller Rockers [Re: Big Bad Bee] #2367283
09/08/17 01:11 AM
09/08/17 01:11 AM
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I really hate this.
These instructions begin by assuming that the reader has no grasp of the 4-stroke cycle or a V8 firing order.
Simple directions: set both valves when that piston is @ TDC ignition. Do the next cylinder.
Anything else is needless complicated - saves a minute at the expensive of bending something.
If you do not understand this, you should pay someone to do it for you.
If you do, it's as useful as telling you to open your fly before taking a piss.


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Re: Setting Tension on Roller Rockers [Re: Biginchmopar] #2367297
09/08/17 01:45 AM
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Originally Posted By Biginchmopar
You are very close, only thing I would add is spin the pushrod with your finger tips (thumb and finger) until you feel it starting to tugg then give the adjuster a 1/4 to 1/2 turn.

I always use the following:

Exhaust starts to open adjust the intake.

Intake opens all the way and starts to close adjust the exhaust.

I do one cylinder at a time that way I don't forget to do one or the other.

A remote start button is a great tool for this.

GOOD LUCK!

iagree up This is the best procedure to use on race cams, especially race solid roller cams up I would add always set the final clearances with the motor warmed up, not cold or lukewarm up
Finally, I set one side at a time and run the motor to get it back to running temps before setting the other side, I start at the front and work my back to the last cylinder on that side so I don't skip one up wrench
OP, your cam is not real big so I would try setting the preload at 1/4 turn hot and see if you like that and if so try doing it again later with a 1/2 turn preload to see if one way works better than the other on your motor. The only way to find out what YOU like is to test, test and test some more up wrench

Last edited by Cab_Burge; 09/08/17 01:49 AM.

Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Setting Tension on Roller Rockers [Re: @#$%&*!] #2367335
09/08/17 05:40 AM
09/08/17 05:40 AM
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Originally Posted By @#$%&*!
Originally Posted By Big Bad Bee
Here's what I found on the web. Is it correct?



When the exhaust valve just begins to open on the number 1 cylinder, adjust the number 1 intake valve. Loosen the adjusting nut slightly until lash can be felt in the rocker arm. While spinning the pushrod with your fingers tighten the adjusting nut—when a slight resistance is felt the valve is at zero lash, or the point where all the slack is removed. Turn the adjusting nut an additional 1/4 to 3/4 of a turn past this point (depending on the cam manufacturer’s specs) to achieve optimal preload on the lifter. Follow this procedure to adjust each intake valve according to the firing order.


To adjust the exhaust valves a similar procedure is used. Turn the engine over until the intake pushrod moves all the way up. Rotate just past maximum lift, where the intake will begin to close. The lifter is now at the base circle, and the exhaust valve can be adjusted. Do not go too far down (over halfway) past the point of maximum lift. If you go too far, you will be in the overlap cycle—where intake valve lash is being taken up as the exhaust valve begins to open. Then follow the same steps of spinning the pushrods and tightening the adjustment nuts.


I call BS on that second part. After the end of the intake cycle comes the compression and power cycles. Overlap is after the exhaust cycle. I take the intake to near closed and adjust the exhaust. This produces repeatable results. If you don't adjust at the same crank position every time the loading of the valve springs will cause the numbers to change making for more work as they'll all seem off a little.
The hard part about hydraulics is that lifters can bleed down varying amounts, totally screwing with your 'feel' when you try to find zero lash. I've never had an adjustable hydraulic but have seen some near catastrophic results from others who didn't get it right.
twocents



I agree as you are right. I also adjust the exh valve right when the intake is closed as the power stroke is next and its not in overlap then. Like you said the overlap is when the exh valve is shutting and the intake starts to open. Ron

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