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small block oiling question #2350185
08/07/17 05:06 PM
08/07/17 05:06 PM
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alaska,usa
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9secondsatellite Offline OP
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putting together a 318 with w-2 econo heads and running the .590 solid flat tappet cam. should i restrict the oil to lifters as recommended for roller cams? any other oiling tips to consider? thanks for the input. it's a 1969 block, .030 over, eagle forged 4340 crank, eagle i-beam rods, mains are studded and with arps with windage tray studs.

Re: small block oiling question [Re: 9secondsatellite] #2350193
08/07/17 05:17 PM
08/07/17 05:17 PM
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Washington
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madscientist Offline
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Yes, block off the oil to the lifters. Make sure all the main feeds are 9/32.


Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
Re: small block oiling question [Re: 9secondsatellite] #2350198
08/07/17 05:26 PM
08/07/17 05:26 PM
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Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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I like to bush the block.. beats the old tube
and ream route.. then as said.. 9/32.. also
drill the bushing for oiling
wave

Re: small block oiling question [Re: 9secondsatellite] #2350214
08/07/17 05:48 PM
08/07/17 05:48 PM
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Porter67 Offline
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Whats your max rpm on this deal do you think?

Im not sure id do either, for 30 years ive been running solid cams, some near .700 lift to 7600 rpm with ZERO oiling mods other the a rocker shaft restrictor when using needle bearing rockers.

If your using eagle I beam vs the better H beams id worry more about the rod choice vs an oiling mod.

But thats just me, good machine work on the block, proper bearing specs for oiling and maybe a coated bearing is all I do.

Re: small block oiling question [Re: 9secondsatellite] #2350224
08/07/17 06:13 PM
08/07/17 06:13 PM
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Colorado Springs, Colorado
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My 340 is pretty much the same as you describe yours, including the .590 cam. I did no oiling mods on mine and it has been running for 6 years, although not as much time on it as I would like simply because I haven't been in a position to put a bunch of rounds on it smile wink. It had seen 8000rpm trying to figure out what it liked but didn't want to short live the motor. To be fair, I highly regard many members here and Mr. P has given me valuable advice in the past. His, and many others, council has been very welcome. Good luck on yours!


Better get inside Ma. Looks like a storm's comin'.
Re: small block oiling question [Re: Porter67] #2350235
08/07/17 06:34 PM
08/07/17 06:34 PM
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alaska,usa
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9secondsatellite Offline OP
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mostly street driven. 7000 max. picked everything up as a package and the whole rotating assembly is already balanced. i would have chosen different rods as well but it was too good of a deal to pass up.

Re: small block oiling question [Re: 9secondsatellite] #2350238
08/07/17 06:40 PM
08/07/17 06:40 PM
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Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Originally Posted By 9secondsatellite
mostly street driven. 7000 max. picked everything up as a package and the whole rotating assembly is already balanced. i would have chosen different rods as well but it was too good of a deal to pass up.


You can go the cheap route if you want to drill
and push in the tubes on the pass side then block
of the very front on the drivers side(I'm talking
the oil galleys) but is toy want you can read the
small block book on this stuff.. I still run a
block that has the tubes but its roller stuff
EDIT
For 7000 rpm... keep it stock.. I was turning
8500 rpm
wave

Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 08/07/17 06:50 PM.
Re: small block oiling question [Re: MR_P_BODY] #2350250
08/07/17 07:07 PM
08/07/17 07:07 PM
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alaska,usa
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9secondsatellite Offline OP
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thanks for all of the input so far guys. i think i'll leave that part stock from your input so far. any other oiling mods? i've ported the 90 degree adapter, more like smoothed it out, massaged the inlet to the block there too, and massaged the port on the main cap. the rockers are the ductile iron ones for w-2 heads.

Last edited by 9secondsatellite; 08/07/17 07:08 PM.
Re: small block oiling question [Re: 9secondsatellite] #2350256
08/07/17 07:18 PM
08/07/17 07:18 PM
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Portage,michigan
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I like the blueprinted Precision oil pumps. Not much more than a stock one, and they do nice work on it. Also like the billet oil pump drive gear they sell.
I like the piece of mind a stock melling pump is taken apart, deburred, coated gears, radiused for flow and put back together with perfect clearances.
Always used these on any new build. Think they are 139 bucks.


69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight
418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam
Best so far, low 10.30’s 1/4
1.41 best 60 foot
6.56 at 104.17



Re: small block oiling question [Re: 9secondsatellite] #2350258
08/07/17 07:22 PM
08/07/17 07:22 PM
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madscientist Offline
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I run a SFT and if the lifter bores aren't bushed, I tube all of them. There is more oil leaking past the lifters than you think.


It's actually pretty easy to do the tubing one you have the reamer. I've even done them by hand.

To block the drivers side lifter oil I just tap the main feed hole just above the main bearing and screw a set screw in there.

For the small investment in time and tooling it's worth it to me to block off the lifters.

You can get the copper tubing and reamer from MSC.


Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
Re: small block oiling question [Re: 9secondsatellite] #2350269
08/07/17 07:46 PM
08/07/17 07:46 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
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Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Are you still up in the great white north...
I have the ream and stuff IF you wanted to go
that way that I can send you if you pay the
shipping... either way still do the main holes
with the 9/32 drill but.. thats about all you
need to do
wave

Re: small block oiling question [Re: 9secondsatellite] #2350271
08/07/17 07:54 PM
08/07/17 07:54 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
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Romeo MI
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Originally Posted By 9secondsatellite
thanks for all of the input so far guys. i think i'll leave that part stock from your input so far. any other oiling mods? i've ported the 90 degree adapter, more like smoothed it out, massaged the inlet to the block there too, and massaged the port on the main cap. the rockers are the ductile iron ones for w-2 heads.


Also... which W-2 heads do you have.. there are
a few versions.. the race ones have a milled flat
rocker stand that needs stands.. I have a couple
sets of the econo versions... long and a short
valve version that dont need the stands.. the long
valves are on my 416 right now in my street rod
wave

Re: small block oiling question [Re: 9secondsatellite] #2350282
08/07/17 08:21 PM
08/07/17 08:21 PM
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Fulton County, PA
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CMcAllister Offline
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Plenty of things you CAN do. Every little bit helps. Bush the lifter bores. Block the left galley (yes, even with the lifters bushed). Plumb oil to the main galley into both ends. Take the head oiling away from the cam bearings. Restrict oil to the cam bearings and the heads. Hand fit the pump to the main cap. Enlarge pickup to reduce restriction. Relieve/enlarge all oil passages.

The object of the exercise is to get maximum constant oil onto the crank and rods and minimize the amount of oil being sprayed around doing little or nothing. Most of this only requires time, some hardware and information.

Last edited by CMcAllister; 08/07/17 10:35 PM.

If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: small block oiling question [Re: MR_P_BODY] #2350313
08/07/17 09:46 PM
08/07/17 09:46 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 527
alaska,usa
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9secondsatellite Offline OP
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Originally Posted By MR_P_BODY
Are you still up in the great white north...
I have the ream and stuff IF you wanted to go
that way that I can send you if you pay the
shipping... either way still do the main holes
with the 9/32 drill but.. thats about all you
need to do
wave
yep.. still here in Alaska. thank you for the generous offer. i will do the mains at 9/32 for sure.

Re: small block oiling question [Re: MR_P_BODY] #2350314
08/07/17 09:48 PM
08/07/17 09:48 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 527
alaska,usa
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9secondsatellite Offline OP
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Originally Posted By MR_P_BODY
Originally Posted By 9secondsatellite
thanks for all of the input so far guys. i think i'll leave that part stock from your input so far. any other oiling mods? i've ported the 90 degree adapter, more like smoothed it out, massaged the inlet to the block there too, and massaged the port on the main cap. the rockers are the ductile iron ones for w-2 heads.


Also... which W-2 heads do you have.. there are
a few versions.. the race ones have a milled flat
rocker stand that needs stands.. I have a couple
sets of the econo versions... long and a short
valve version that dont need the stands.. the long
valves are on my 416 right now in my street rod
wave
they are the ones with the milled flat rocker stand type.

Re: small block oiling question [Re: 9secondsatellite] #2350328
08/07/17 10:20 PM
08/07/17 10:20 PM
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in a cattle trailer down by th...
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Guitar Jones Offline
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I would never tube a block again. I don't know what kind of machinery you have available there but doing that by hand is a PITA. Worse yet is peening that tube never seems to work out well, the lifters do not move freely and with a flat tappet cam that is essential. If you really want to block the oil then bushing the lifter bores is the way to go.

Now having said that, it's a waste of money for what you have and are doing. I would block the oil to the drivers side galley though with a set screw.

Your best money would be spent on the oil pan and pickup. A 5/8 suction tube feeding the pump will do more than any other mods. You can also have the cam journals grooved to supply full time oil to the rockers.

I have a write up over on forabodiesonly.com in the small block engine section with some photos. I haven't been there in years but the thread is still a sticky.


"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"


'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
Re: small block oiling question [Re: Guitar Jones] #2350358
08/07/17 10:58 PM
08/07/17 10:58 PM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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yes read Guitar Jones oiling writeup and Sanborns' oil writeup at www.moparchat.com then scroll down to & click on "circle track chat" & it too is in a sticky. ALL the info you will ever need & decide how much is needed for your app.


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: small block oiling question [Re: Guitar Jones] #2350367
08/07/17 11:12 PM
08/07/17 11:12 PM
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Washington
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madscientist Offline
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Originally Posted By Guitar Jones
I would never tube a block again. I don't know what kind of machinery you have available there but doing that by hand is a PITA. Worse yet is peening that tube never seems to work out well, the lifters do not move freely and with a flat tappet cam that is essential. If you really want to block the oil then bushing the lifter bores is the way to go.

Now having said that, it's a waste of money for what you have and are doing. I would block the oil to the drivers side galley though with a set screw.

Your best money would be spent on the oil pan and pickup. A 5/8 suction tube feeding the pump will do more than any other mods. You can also have the cam journals grooved to supply full time oil to the rockers.

I have a write up over on forabodiesonly.com in the small block engine section with some photos. I haven't been there in years but the thread is still a sticky.




You just peen the tube over and hit it with a paper roll. Takes 5 minutes. It's easier to do by hand if you drill it first then ream to size.

Like I said, it's easy enough to do by hand.
And getting the inlet as big as you can in important. 1 inch isn't too big.


Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
Re: small block oiling question [Re: MR_P_BODY] #2350550
08/08/17 09:32 AM
08/08/17 09:32 AM
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Queensland Australia
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What size hole do you drill in the bush and where do you position it?

Re: small block oiling question [Re: madscientist] #2350557
08/08/17 09:55 AM
08/08/17 09:55 AM
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in a cattle trailer down by th...
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Guitar Jones Offline
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Originally Posted By madscientist
Originally Posted By Guitar Jones
I would never tube a block again. I don't know what kind of machinery you have available there but doing that by hand is a PITA. Worse yet is peening that tube never seems to work out well, the lifters do not move freely and with a flat tappet cam that is essential. If you really want to block the oil then bushing the lifter bores is the way to go.

Now having said that, it's a waste of money for what you have and are doing. I would block the oil to the drivers side galley though with a set screw.

Your best money would be spent on the oil pan and pickup. A 5/8 suction tube feeding the pump will do more than any other mods. You can also have the cam journals grooved to supply full time oil to the rockers.

I have a write up over on forabodiesonly.com in the small block engine section with some photos. I haven't been there in years but the thread is still a sticky.




You just peen the tube over and hit it with a paper roll. Takes 5 minutes. It's easier to do by hand if you drill it first then ream to size.

Like I said, it's easy enough to do by hand.
And getting the inlet as big as you can in important. 1 inch isn't too big.


I've done it 3 times. And it's always a PITA. Not what I would consider easy. Great if it works for you but I won't do it again.


"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"


'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
Re: small block oiling question [Re: CMcAllister] #2350582
08/08/17 10:41 AM
08/08/17 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted By CMcAllister
Plenty of things you CAN do. Every little bit helps. Bush the lifter bores. Block the left galley (yes, even with the lifters bushed). Plumb oil to the main galley into both ends. Take the head oiling away from the cam bearings. Restrict oil to the cam bearings and the heads. Hand fit the pump to the main cap. Enlarge pickup to reduce restriction. Relieve/enlarge all oil passages.

The object of the exercise is to get maximum constant oil onto the crank and rods and minimize the amount of oil being sprayed around doing little or nothing. Most of this only requires time, some hardware and information.





Lots of time and energy when into that block I bought from you last year. I have built a lot of small blocks that ran pretty good and held up well with simple mods but I like your thinking for all out serious builds. Running alcohol is my biggest issue and the extra wear and tear it does to an engine but I love the price and not ever having cooling issues. My next engine will probably use Shaffers Oil as I hear good things about it and alcohol.


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: small block oiling question [Re: 9secondsatellite] #2350850
08/08/17 05:43 PM
08/08/17 05:43 PM
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Fulton County, PA
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CMcAllister Offline
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True. Lots of time, trial and error. Study of how the system works. Trying to fix cranks, oil pans, etc. That thing kept me awake nights for awhile. The 360s are much more of an issue at higher RPM.

I've done the tube deal, once, looonnnggg ago. With all due respect, that's some hilljack BS. Never again.


If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: small block oiling question [Re: 9secondsatellite] #2351019
08/08/17 11:00 PM
08/08/17 11:00 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 527
alaska,usa
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9secondsatellite Offline OP
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wow! thanks for all the input. a lot of good ideas. the 2 other stickies on the other sites were pretty awesome ideas. a little more in depth than i need to go with this build but for other builds down the road great info. i will do some of those things suggested.

Re: small block oiling question [Re: 9secondsatellite] #2351298
08/09/17 01:03 PM
08/09/17 01:03 PM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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Quote:
wow! thanks for all the input. a lot of good ideas.
Hey we're the best!


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: small block oiling question [Re: RapidRobert] #2352279
08/11/17 04:26 AM
08/11/17 04:26 AM
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Posts: 6,148
Melbourne , Australia
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I wouldn't waste my time. Deburr the block where the oil drains back, smooth the entry to the rear cap, blueprint standard oil pump, get a good oil pan, call it done. You're not turning enough RPM to hurt anything if properly clearanced.
All the oil mods suggested aren't going to hurt, but unnecessary in my view.
If I was going to change anything I'd look at bushing the lifter bores instead of the tube in the block.


Alan Jones
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