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Hopped up 318 questions
#2346659
08/01/17 01:23 PM
08/01/17 01:23 PM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 106 waco tx
gogo318
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waco tx
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Hello moparts,been away for awhile life happens . Im seeking advice on a 318 i built along time ago. I copied the engine masters build " cheep as dirt 318" to the letter (if youve never heard of it google and it pops right up)except engine masters used 360 smog heads and the macine shop that built the engine for me swore up and down 318 heads was what i should use ( keep in mind i am pretty green at this time ) they made a great argument and i gave in they sold me a set of good 318 302 castings smog heads for 50$ and closed off the smog ports for me all the machine work that would have been done to the 360s the 318 heads got stainless 2.02 valves and all i didnt have any issues with the engine except it liked to shove push rods through rocker arms but ill be putting in a set of harland sharps this go around to counter that with all that said my questions are : (1) was the 318 head swap a good move for making power ? (2) anything i could do with this combo to make it more powerful? Thanks in advance ive always found good insight here and as i get back into my toy box i call a shop im sure ill be needing help from more experienced folk .
67 charger fastback 318 stock
67 belvedere II 4dr soft top built 318
68 newport 2dr hard top 318
84 b150 440/727
84 d150 short wheel step side 4x4 lifted
87 omnitruck (you just have to see it )
new addition 63 dart wagon !!!
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Re: Hopped up 318 questions
[Re: gogo318]
#2346677
08/01/17 01:46 PM
08/01/17 01:46 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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port the heads. get quench. get a "reasonable" SCR. custom cam for your app. dial in the dist subsystems/AF ratio. EDIT good exhaust manifolds/free flowing ex with mandrel bends. You can use free flowing (louder) muffs up front then a pair of cherry bomb glasspacks alongside the rear springs for addit'l muffling.
Last edited by RapidRobert; 08/01/17 01:55 PM.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Hopped up 318 questions
[Re: gogo318]
#2346766
08/01/17 04:35 PM
08/01/17 04:35 PM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 106 waco tx
gogo318
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waco tx
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Ill try to answer every one first it used to be in an 84 swb b150 yes a van and it was fun i think the vans had 3:55 rears and i was running long tubes and 18" glass packs no pipes heres the link to the youtube vid i made of it after i got it mpstly buttoned up https://youtu.be/a9cxNdnAp5IKeep in mind this was back in 2012 ish ? Anyways its now going into a 72 scamp it also has long tubes for abody ill be bolting it to a 904 that im gonna have professional built to keep up with the 415 hp this engine is supposed to make maybe a 2000 stall converter it will see the road some so i dont want to get too wild in the stall department the rear is the stock rear with 3:70something that the previous owner told me they put in it after the 360 they were running in it broke some teeth i question how true any of that is .... but ill definitely put something in it better suited for my goals but that another thread for another time
67 charger fastback 318 stock
67 belvedere II 4dr soft top built 318
68 newport 2dr hard top 318
84 b150 440/727
84 d150 short wheel step side 4x4 lifted
87 omnitruck (you just have to see it )
new addition 63 dart wagon !!!
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Re: Hopped up 318 questions
[Re: Porter67]
#2346774
08/01/17 04:46 PM
08/01/17 04:46 PM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 106 waco tx
gogo318
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Posts: 106
waco tx
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I didnt want to build the same big block everyone else was 318s were mine for the taking and i had a crap load so it just seamed like the thing to do
67 charger fastback 318 stock
67 belvedere II 4dr soft top built 318
68 newport 2dr hard top 318
84 b150 440/727
84 d150 short wheel step side 4x4 lifted
87 omnitruck (you just have to see it )
new addition 63 dart wagon !!!
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Re: Hopped up 318 questions
[Re: Paul_Fancsali]
#2346783
08/01/17 05:00 PM
08/01/17 05:00 PM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 106 waco tx
gogo318
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waco tx
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Glad you asked first i found put the hard way that you cant use the stock push rods with this build and they didnt mention that with that cam and lifter set you have to get trick flow push rods that are like .177 shorter (dont quote me) i called summit ( because i bought the cam from them ) and told them about the rods being too long and they sold me the trick flows ( oil thru the center like chebbys which is kew) so if your thinking about this build keep that in mind as for push rods coming thru rockers summit also told the harland sharps were recommended for this build because the dual coil valve springs generate 910 lbs on the rocker arms compressed and stock stamps cant hold that at high rpm ( obviously) btw ive had it rapped up to 8000 with pedal to go but its the most evil sound ive ever heard from an engine and it scares the crap out of me .
67 charger fastback 318 stock
67 belvedere II 4dr soft top built 318
68 newport 2dr hard top 318
84 b150 440/727
84 d150 short wheel step side 4x4 lifted
87 omnitruck (you just have to see it )
new addition 63 dart wagon !!!
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Re: Hopped up 318 questions
[Re: Porter67]
#2346786
08/01/17 05:05 PM
08/01/17 05:05 PM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 106 waco tx
gogo318
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waco tx
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If i was building from scratch id build a 360 stroker 408 because i have a -8 360 on my shop floor but this engine is already built im just going thru it before it gets rehomed into the scamp and while i have it open i wondered what i could do to squeeze a few more torques out of what i already have
67 charger fastback 318 stock
67 belvedere II 4dr soft top built 318
68 newport 2dr hard top 318
84 b150 440/727
84 d150 short wheel step side 4x4 lifted
87 omnitruck (you just have to see it )
new addition 63 dart wagon !!!
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Re: Hopped up 318 questions
[Re: GMP440]
#2346795
08/01/17 05:20 PM
08/01/17 05:20 PM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 106 waco tx
gogo318
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Posts: 106
waco tx
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thats not the one i did ill try to find it and post a link
67 charger fastback 318 stock
67 belvedere II 4dr soft top built 318
68 newport 2dr hard top 318
84 b150 440/727
84 d150 short wheel step side 4x4 lifted
87 omnitruck (you just have to see it )
new addition 63 dart wagon !!!
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Re: Hopped up 318 questions
[Re: Porter67]
#2347207
08/02/17 11:48 AM
08/02/17 11:48 AM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 106 waco tx
gogo318
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Posts: 106
waco tx
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Well i looked for the cheap as dirt build that i did but its not coming up anymore and i cant remember exacts specs of some of this stuff so if something i say sounds off it very well might be lol Stock block stock crank and rods clevet bearings keith black "pop up" domed pistons set at 0 deck Comp cam 275hl extream energy 210° duration 502 intake lift ( unsure of exhaust lift but i remember it was close to 502 also duration could be wrong this is all from memory ) flat tappet hydro lifters trick flow push rods hi vol oil pump completed the bottom i also used a stock timing set which i know now was a no no and will be going with a double roller this time Heads Stock 318 smog 302 castings 2.02 stainless intake ( i think they were Manley but i know they came from mancini ) exhaust was .1.70something not sure but Swedes machine sayed " biggest you can put in small block heads crane locks and retainers crane springs dont remember the pn but supposed to be 910 lbs im pretty sure stock rockers and shafts ( another no no ) performer air gap intake 1 inch open spacer amd 750 dbl pumper i ran a stock two wire distributor base and msd wires cap rotor and 60,k coil ngk plugs timing was set standard 8 degrees before and it didnt seam to mind FOR WHAT ITS WORTH it lopes like a stumbling idiot at about 800 rpm and it will jump to 8000 faster than the dam tach can get there sounded like a pissed banshee from Hades at that rpm and as a novice hot rodder who just dumped 5000 into an engine i didnt bring it that high much as for power ot was definitely more powerful than a stock 318 but i never dynoed it all i can tell you is it pushed a 3500lb van with a best time of 15 flat and like 98 mph with a stock 727 and stock 355s so im hoping it would do much better in my little scamp with a purpose built 904 ( i want that quicker first gear) a 2200 stall and maybe 4:10s in the rear
67 charger fastback 318 stock
67 belvedere II 4dr soft top built 318
68 newport 2dr hard top 318
84 b150 440/727
84 d150 short wheel step side 4x4 lifted
87 omnitruck (you just have to see it )
new addition 63 dart wagon !!!
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Re: Hopped up 318 questions
[Re: Supercuda]
#2347246
08/02/17 12:59 PM
08/02/17 12:59 PM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 106 waco tx
gogo318
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 106
waco tx
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The later one reads quite close in parts used but neither is the one i copied
67 charger fastback 318 stock
67 belvedere II 4dr soft top built 318
68 newport 2dr hard top 318
84 b150 440/727
84 d150 short wheel step side 4x4 lifted
87 omnitruck (you just have to see it )
new addition 63 dart wagon !!!
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Re: Hopped up 318 questions
[Re: Supercuda]
#2347260
08/02/17 01:28 PM
08/02/17 01:28 PM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 106 waco tx
gogo318
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waco tx
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Still not the one i did but specs are close i guess there were lots of versions of this build i found the link but its useless because when you click it it takes you to hot rods web page that sayes what your looking for has been moved or removed
67 charger fastback 318 stock
67 belvedere II 4dr soft top built 318
68 newport 2dr hard top 318
84 b150 440/727
84 d150 short wheel step side 4x4 lifted
87 omnitruck (you just have to see it )
new addition 63 dart wagon !!!
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Re: Hopped up 318 questions
[Re: gogo318]
#2347283
08/02/17 02:06 PM
08/02/17 02:06 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889 up yours
Supercuda
About to go away
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About to go away
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Posts: 14,889
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Must be the old PHR article, somewhere I saw it recently, can't remember where though.
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.
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Re: Hopped up 318 questions
[Re: Supercuda]
#2347299
08/02/17 02:26 PM
08/02/17 02:26 PM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 106 waco tx
gogo318
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Posts: 106
waco tx
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I have the print out that i carried like a bible to all these places and shops to show them what i was doing but havent located it uet
67 charger fastback 318 stock
67 belvedere II 4dr soft top built 318
68 newport 2dr hard top 318
84 b150 440/727
84 d150 short wheel step side 4x4 lifted
87 omnitruck (you just have to see it )
new addition 63 dart wagon !!!
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Re: Hopped up 318 questions
[Re: gogo318]
#2347469
08/02/17 08:20 PM
08/02/17 08:20 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,376
dogdays
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I Live Here
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Posts: 16,376
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When I was doing my 302 heads I discovered that there wasn't a lot of room under the spring retainer. In other words, with an installed height of about 1.600". the springs would be close to co8il bind with a cam with lifts over 0.500. But not to worry because by that time the retainers would be pushing against the valve stem seals. I'd make sure there was enough clearance and the spring was right. The best one as far as fitting in the space seems to be the Hughes 1110. It looked like it would allow the most lift of the single springs.
Steve Dulcich is the man for writing articles on the 318 and he has I think three different 400hp 318 stories out there. He's used 360. Magnum and 302 heads. The 302 heads required a lot of work and reportedly cracked soon after. Look at Steve's article "Junkyard Jewel" for more information. There is a lot of material in the top of the port around the valve guide, and the guide itself. The pushrod pinch is also a choke point and it is pretty thin so be careful.
Before you do anything, though, get a price so you can do some comparisons. ProComp has a cylinder head in the affordable range, Edelbrock and Promaxx have decent heads, higher money. I don't know what the Sidewinder heads will run, between the high and low, I guess.
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