451 Build ideas-Moderate Street-Cost Conscious
#2340887
07/21/17 11:53 AM
07/21/17 11:53 AM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,548 DC, MD Suburbs
440PURSUIT
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,548
DC, MD Suburbs
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I have a 72 Charger #'s match, 400 2bbl. 83K.
Looking for some more oompf and to run AC on pump gas. Prob run a 323 gear for cruising.
450hp plus target.
I have the block, plenty of 440 Cranks, LY rods.
Choice: 1 set ported 906 prob 230/170 cfm 2. 516's ported that ran mid 11's prob 240/180 cfm.
Both have 214-181 valves and are fresh.
What are the piston choices, and are they usable with Iron heads. Cam should run smooth I suspect below 230@ .050.
Thanks in advance :-)
1969 Hemi Charger R/T, 1970 Charger 472 Hemi 6 Sp 1969 Charger Pro Tour Project 1971 Barracuda Convert 1970 440 6pack Superbird, 1968 Fury I Police Pursuit 440 Super Commando 2 door sedan (Black/Blue) 1967 Barracuda Convert 1968 Barracuda Coupe 1972 Charger w 383 1972 Sebring Plus 440-6 Clone 1969 Coronet Pro Street 2009 Challengeer SRT8 stick 1992-1986 Body 2500 4x4 440 stick 1982 Ramcharger 318 Sniper- getting enhanced. 1997 Ram B3500 Van 5.9 1991.5 W250 Cummins- Big Chief
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Re: 451 Build ideas-Moderate Street-Cost Conscious
[Re: 440PURSUIT]
#2340906
07/21/17 12:19 PM
07/21/17 12:19 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,844 S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,844
S.E. Michigan
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Headers or stock exhaust manifolds?
Diamond 52006 or 52007 are nice.
The 6 is for the stock 1.094 pin, the 7 is for a .990 pin if you were going to bush the rods down.
I've used the 006 for awhile.
I mean, you can always spend more and get lighter weight, coatings, custom ring packs and so on and all that stuff helps performance one way or the other. It's just a matter of how fancy you want to get.
Rich H.
Esse Quam Videri
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Re: 451 Build ideas-Moderate Street-Cost Conscious
[Re: 440PURSUIT]
#2340918
07/21/17 12:38 PM
07/21/17 12:38 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,498 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,498
So. Burlington, Vt.
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I'd use the 516's. Easier to get good quench, and there won't be diddly for power difference in an application like that.
450hp with ex manifolds would be a stretch though...... For either set of heads.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: 451 Build ideas-Moderate Street-Cost Conscious
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2340996
07/21/17 03:33 PM
07/21/17 03:33 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,505 TN
SCATPACK 1
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,505
TN
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So my buddy has a 400 block in his 70 Challenger. It is bad news. using 440 steel crank and 440 LY rods with new rod bolts. He also used Keith Black Hyperutectic (?) pistons at 30 over and it is zero decked. He has stock 906 heads with the 509 purple shaft hydraulic cam. (About the same duration you spec'd) Very light weight rotating set up with the KB pistons and revs like an electric motor. smooth, fast, quiet. Good luck with yoru build.
Old Geezer Racing
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Re: 451 Build ideas-Moderate Street-Cost Conscious
[Re: 440PURSUIT]
#2341023
07/21/17 04:20 PM
07/21/17 04:20 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,844 S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,844
S.E. Michigan
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On mine I took a 440 crank with severely damaged mains and cut it. I've read about it both ways and it made more sense at the time to not cut the block. "450hp with ex manifolds would be a stretch though...... For either set of heads." Agreed, Exactly why I asked
Rich H.
Esse Quam Videri
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Re: 451 Build ideas-Moderate Street-Cost Conscious
[Re: 440PURSUIT]
#2341041
07/21/17 05:06 PM
07/21/17 05:06 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,174 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,174
Bend,OR USA
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The first 451 C.I.I built with a 400 block used a stock type forged steel 440 crank with the mains and counter weights cut down to fit in the 400 block, blue printed LY rods with the cheaper ARP bolts back in 1997 or so. The customer furnished some of the parts like the mildly ported 906 heads with 2.14 intake valves and 1.81 exhaust. I built it with a set of pump gas Ross forged pistons for CA pump swill back then, it had a Mopar M1 single plane and a BG 850 vacuum Street demon carb., it made 489 HP at 5900 RPM on a DTS engine dyno before splitting the #1 cylinder wall I ended up having to replace the block due to massive core shift so bad that block wouldn't take a sleeve, it needed all four on the driver side I still have that motor and I hope to try it on the local Studka engine dyno with the new block and with all the other parts and compression ratio being the same I tried to get the customer to have that crankshaft offset ground to BB Chevy rod size and increase the stroke to 3.91 but he wasn't up for that, maybe you should consider that also The 400 and 440 motors with that stroke rock
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 07/21/17 05:09 PM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: 451 Build ideas-Moderate Street-Cost Conscious
[Re: 440PURSUIT]
#2341086
07/21/17 06:26 PM
07/21/17 06:26 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,498 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,498
So. Burlington, Vt.
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IMO, the most cost effective way to achieve the target power level is just build a 440. Stock crank, stock rods, KB flat tops.
Super easy.
To make that power with a 3.23 gear/tight converter/AC friendly cam, the heads are going to need to be pretty decent.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: 451 Build ideas-Moderate Street-Cost Conscious
[Re: 440PURSUIT]
#2341164
07/21/17 09:17 PM
07/21/17 09:17 PM
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crabman173
Unregistered
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crabman173
Unregistered
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I love a 451 low deck--it is overall one of the best Mopar combos ever--they rev like a chainsaw easy to drop crank at the grinder--pick it up--small mains --Bingo! I would NEVER spend the loot to line bore one only to wind up with thinner caps and who knows where the crank would be located then--never! Then you just chuck that crank in a lathe--get the right tooth angle and speed and make hot noodles chamfer the inner edge of the counter weights on the #2 and #4 and in less than 1 hour you have done it--no big deal-- Rod? eh..Andy is right but you can save a little with the LY's No matter what it will be a great unit and surprise you at the results--stock manifolds are the kiss of death and the limiting factor yet you can still build one that will haul with them just not a " magazine HP" # unit--LOL My favorite engine I ever had on the street was a 451 low deck, SR heads, 255 @ 050 solid---That thing was just plain FUN--could turn it 7400 change gears turn it up again--the monster engines are like driving the Zamboni at the ice rink--that 451 would hook and rip!
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