Re: Help .Which thermostat ?
[Re: BlueRacer69]
#2331175
07/04/17 04:08 AM
07/04/17 04:08 AM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 16,125 Central Florida
larrymopar360
Stud Muffin
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Stud Muffin
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 16,125
Central Florida
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I like 180 myself with that setup. I have always been tempted to run a cooler one for obvious reasons, and more than once found myself going back and having to put in a hotter t-stat because engine never reached a good operating temp.
Facts are stubborn things.
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Re: Help .Which thermostat ?
[Re: BlueRacer69]
#2331195
07/04/17 08:52 AM
07/04/17 08:52 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,482 Answering the call of the wild
ThermoQuad
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,482
Answering the call of the wild
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The only part you all got correct was that the cooler operating temperatures creates more wear. The year is 2017. Today's gasoline requires 195 DEGREE MIN OPERATING TEMP. It is not the same fuel as in 1970. If you do not run the engine hot enough the fuel will collect in the intake manifold and burn off n the cruise mode, flip flopping the air fuel ratio. This is not conjecture, hearsay or i read it on the internet, but information from instrumentation and years of tuning experience. Ethanol laced fuel requires a different tune up that non ethanol fuel. the A-F ratios are different......gee wilikers Mr Wizard... 60% distilled water 40% antifreeze and a bottle of coolant additive. If you guys would pay attention and retain just a little knowledge this forum would be a better place. 195 is not hot 210 is not hot 195-210 is the normal operating range where your car should run 220 is warm 230 is hot
Last edited by Tom_Quad; 07/04/17 08:54 AM.
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Re: Help .Which thermostat ?
[Re: BlueRacer69]
#2331235
07/04/17 11:10 AM
07/04/17 11:10 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,929 Akron, Ohio
ProSport
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,929
Akron, Ohio
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Lol, you can stare at your 195-210 temp gauge all day if you want, not me. Lots of ways to build and run these cars, it's all personal preference. I've been driving 9 and 10 second cars on the street for decades at lower temps, although you may be referring to bone stock motors. And I will admit that I want to install a 180 thermostat this Fall since my car runs a little too cold in the Fall/Spring.
1970 Challenger, all aluminum 528 Hemi, HDK suspension, Tremec 5 speed manual
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Re: Help .Which thermostat ?
[Re: ProSport]
#2331253
07/04/17 11:35 AM
07/04/17 11:35 AM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889 up yours
Supercuda
About to go away
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About to go away
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
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it's all personal preference. No it isn't. It's a matter of data and testing vs neanderthal thinking. Come out of the cave, that bright like is knowledge.
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.
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Re: Help .Which thermostat ?
[Re: BlueRacer69]
#2331261
07/04/17 11:52 AM
07/04/17 11:52 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,929 Akron, Ohio
ProSport
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,929
Akron, Ohio
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Ok I'll try but I ain't happy about it I appreciate learning facts, but nobody's gonna kill their motor with a 160 stat, alot of racers don't run a stat and let it free flow. Now back to my cave.
1970 Challenger, all aluminum 528 Hemi, HDK suspension, Tremec 5 speed manual
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Re: Help .Which thermostat ?
[Re: ThermoQuad]
#2333204
07/07/17 05:33 PM
07/07/17 05:33 PM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,060 Pendleton NY
terzmo
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,060
Pendleton NY
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The only part you all got correct was that the cooler operating temperatures creates more wear. The year is 2017. Today's gasoline requires 195 DEGREE MIN OPERATING TEMP. It is not the same fuel as in 1970. If you do not run the engine hot enough the fuel will collect in the intake manifold and burn off n the cruise mode, flip flopping the air fuel ratio. This is not conjecture, hearsay or i read it on the internet, but information from instrumentation and years of tuning experience. Ethanol laced fuel requires a different tune up that non ethanol fuel. the A-F ratios are different......gee wilikers Mr Wizard... 60% distilled water 40% antifreeze and a bottle of coolant additive. If you guys would pay attention and retain just a little knowledge this forum would be a better place. 195 is not hot 210 is not hot 195-210 is the normal operating range where your car should run 220 is warm 230 is hot Then why is the stock gauge at 180 when at mid point and at 210 in the overheated range. Old iron doesn't like heat as the new junk today.
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Re: Help .Which thermostat ?
[Re: ProSport]
#2333389
07/08/17 12:44 AM
07/08/17 12:44 AM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 16,125 Central Florida
larrymopar360
Stud Muffin
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Stud Muffin
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 16,125
Central Florida
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Ok I'll try but I ain't happy about it I appreciate learning facts, but nobody's gonna kill their motor with a 160 stat, alot of racers don't run a stat and let it free flow. Now back to my cave. My engine never warmed up enough to run right with a 160.
Facts are stubborn things.
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Re: Help .Which thermostat ?
[Re: BlueRacer69]
#2333413
07/08/17 01:13 AM
07/08/17 01:13 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,791 Hamilton, Ontario Canada
Magnum
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,791
Hamilton, Ontario Canada
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The only advantage to running a colder system is the intake might be a couple degrees cooler. EVERYTHING else will be too cold. pistons, oil, cylinder walls and bearings.
There is also NO advantage to a slower warm up. Which is another reason a closed thermostat is better than 1 with a drilled hole in it. A few hot to cold cycles will rid of any air if you have a coolant recovery system.
69 Super Bee, 93 Mustang LX, 04 Allure Super
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Re: Help .Which thermostat ?
[Re: Magnum]
#2333436
07/08/17 02:22 AM
07/08/17 02:22 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
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I agree on a fast warmup being far beneficial to get out of that high wear "zone". I drill a very small hole only for easy first time fillup, not near large enough to have any effect of cooling.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Help .Which thermostat ?
[Re: ProSport]
#2333515
07/08/17 11:09 AM
07/08/17 11:09 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,436 Blair County,PA
62maxwgn
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,436
Blair County,PA
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Ok I'll try but I ain't happy about it I appreciate learning facts, but nobody's gonna kill their motor with a 160 stat, alot of racers don't run a stat and let it free flow. Now back to my cave. They may not kill there motor,but it will eventually shorten it's life span.Also,a real race engine is rarely street driven and the percentages of each are quite different,the OP ask about a street driven car,not a race car.If your 160* makes you happy,good luck with that.
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Re: Help .Which thermostat ?
[Re: ThermoQuad]
#2333550
07/08/17 12:08 PM
07/08/17 12:08 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 20,440 north of coder
moparx
"Butt Crack Bob"
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"Butt Crack Bob"
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 20,440
north of coder
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I am not going to continue to provide any more mopar technical support here on moparts. As I provide technical support in my employment on very very complicated technology this is not my first technical information rodeo. I might have a clue on how to analyze information and create proper technical documentation/information. The six pak tuning guide is a perfect example of well researched information that does not get used before coming on here complaining that the damn thing doesn't work correctly and getting bad advice from the uninformed.
Some of you are very uninformed and are incapable of comprehending anything that makes good sense. You pollute threads with hearsay, old wives tales/opinions and refuse to use good technical advice. Diplomacy prevents me from speaking directly to a few of you and telling you in plain english that children should be seen and not heard.
Good luck with your 160 or 180 degree thermostats in your "old iron" and your fast wearing - poor running engines. BTW in 1970 the thermostats were 190 degrees from the factory...
i will miss your wisdom tom. you are spot on about using a high temp 'stat, and today's fuel, in my opinion, requires a higher engine temperature to burn correctly. my '78 E58 cop motor came with a 195 'stat, and it ran 195-200 down the road in my '38 plymouth coupe. in high ambient temperature with stop - n- go traffic, it ran 210-215. this is with just a re cored stock radiator and a stainless 5 blade flex fan [no shroud]. it made good power, got reasonable gas mileage, and never puked when shut off. always started instantly when heat soaked to boot. i have a buddy that has a 55 chevy with a '95 LT1 that gets hyper when his temp hits around 200. most vehicles today run a 205-210 'stat. i know some will mention the newer machining operations and the computer controls as the reason for higher 'stats, but unless you are pushing 230+, i for one, wouldn't fret a bit about a 200-205 temperature reading. i understand your frustration completely because i have experienced some of your same deals with guys around here. i try to help them through my knowledge gained by the mistakes i have made in the past so they will save time and money, but they just want to label me as an "old, crabby know-it-all". any more, i just let it roll off my back, even though in the end, their results want me to say : "i hate to say i told you so, but......" and now, i'm being plagued by "old timers", and have to watch what i say because sometimes i get confused and blurt out wrong stuff. however, i am quick to "own up" to being stupid, when others seem to try blaming something else when things go wrong. just my opinion tom, but i for one will miss you.
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Re: Help .Which thermostat ?
[Re: ThermoQuad]
#2333591
07/08/17 01:16 PM
07/08/17 01:16 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
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I am not going to continue to provide any more mopar technical support here on moparts. Hey dont leave us! Yes there's some less than perfect peoples' attitudes here & some misinformation but we need all the (correct) tech that be mustered and when the student is ready the teacher will appear (actually when the student is ready he will grasp what the teacher has been sayin all along!). right now it is not about the students but about the teacher & I would suggest you get drunk/get laid/take a vacation & come back & you'll be fine. we need you! I read your sixpac tuning guide & it was awesome, I dont have one (I have dual fours) but I'm gleaning from it. I understand they are complicated but are awesome when setup right.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Help .Which thermostat ?
[Re: ThermoQuad]
#2333635
07/08/17 03:05 PM
07/08/17 03:05 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,960 Benton, IL.
DaveRS23
Master of nothing...
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Master of nothing...
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,960
Benton, IL.
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I am not going to continue to provide any more mopar technical support here on moparts.
Awwwww, come on........Don't deprive the rest of us due to a couple of Neanderthals. It's not fair. Besides, we are loosing experience here at a rate that is unsustainable. Everyone has an opinion and in this Facebook society, everyone just HAS to share it. Even if it has no basis in fact. Unfortunate, but true. So, why not come on back and just ignore the ignorant? Some of us would appreciate it.
Master, again and still
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Re: Help .Which thermostat ?
[Re: ThermoQuad]
#2333701
07/08/17 05:23 PM
07/08/17 05:23 PM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,060 Pendleton NY
terzmo
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,060
Pendleton NY
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I am not going to continue to provide any more mopar technical support here on moparts. As I provide technical support in my employment on very very complicated technology this is not my first technical information rodeo. I might have a clue on how to analyze information and create proper technical documentation/information. The six pak tuning guide is a perfect example of well researched information that does not get used before coming on here complaining that the damn thing doesn't work correctly and getting bad advice from the uninformed.
Some of you are very uninformed and are incapable of comprehending anything that makes good sense. You pollute threads with hearsay, old wives tales/opinions and refuse to use good technical advice. Diplomacy prevents me from speaking directly to a few of you and telling you in plain english that children should be seen and not heard.
Good luck with your 160 or 180 degree thermostats in your "old iron" and your fast wearing - poor running engines. BTW in 1970 the thermostats were 190 degrees from the factory...
I've run mopars with 160 and no stat for over 50 years...pump yourself up with "ideas" and feel great while MY test of time has succeeded over and over.
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