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Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction #232896
02/22/09 05:29 PM
02/22/09 05:29 PM
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I get asked every once in a while, just how much of a difference there is between the 2.
To follow are a few comparisons of an NOS spark plug wire compared to a reproduction plug wire. 3rd quarter of 1969 . The nos wires box is dated 10-69 .
I'll do a ohms resistance comparison on it tomorow afternoon, new versus new. I have an original Hemi plug wire set here , but really wanted to do a comparison of new versus new.
In all the following pics NOS is on top and repop is the bottom one. Also shown is an nos single wire plug wire clip still attached on the wire.Click on the attachment to see a much larger picture.

5044727-DSC00079.JPG (137 downloads)
Last edited by gtx6970; 02/22/09 05:30 PM.
Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction [Re: gtx6970] #232897
02/22/09 05:31 PM
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5044732-DSC00080.JPG (110 downloads)
Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction [Re: gtx6970] #232898
02/22/09 05:31 PM
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5044733-DSC00081.JPG (104 downloads)
Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction [Re: gtx6970] #232899
02/22/09 05:32 PM
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5044739-DSC00082.JPG (104 downloads)
Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction [Re: gtx6970] #232900
02/22/09 05:32 PM
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5044740-DSC00083.JPG (96 downloads)
Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction [Re: gtx6970] #232901
02/22/09 05:33 PM
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5044744-DSC00086.JPG (109 downloads)
Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction [Re: gtx6970] #232902
02/22/09 05:34 PM
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the grommet

5044745-DSC00084.JPG (102 downloads)
Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction [Re: gtx6970] #232903
02/23/09 11:35 PM
02/23/09 11:35 PM
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Cleveland
sunroofgtx Offline
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Bill, great pics. Looks like the repops are laser-jet printed. We have been looking into doin that. Right now, our 8.5's are painted on with a print wheel when manufactured. Nice pics. What are thos 135's ? #8 on a 440 ?


Join the quickest team in motorsports. Team FireCore. CustomWiresets.com
Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction [Re: sunroofgtx] #232904
02/23/09 11:41 PM
02/23/09 11:41 PM
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Spokane Washington
ScottSmith_Harms Offline
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Sunroof, you guys need to get on the stick and get yours printed up like OEM. If you need help getting lic. etc just let me know.

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction [Re: ScottSmith_Harms] #232905
02/25/09 09:26 PM
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Dodge Don Offline
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Out of curiousity, does anyone make modern style high performance plug wires that are made to look like classic factory correct wires?

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction [Re: Dodge Don] #232906
02/25/09 09:39 PM
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Quote:

Out of curiousity, does anyone make modern style high performance plug wires that are made to look like classic factory correct wires?




Thats exactly what Scott in the post above yours is prodding Rick about...

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction [Re: 1_WILD_RT] #232907
02/26/09 12:33 AM
02/26/09 12:33 AM
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Soldotna,Alaska
RT_6_PakShaker Offline
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Bill
How about posting a few pics of the distributor cap boots, both the 90* and 180*?

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction [Re: RT_6_PakShaker] #232908
02/26/09 11:37 AM
02/26/09 11:37 AM
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For the most part the repro wire sets are very nice, but there are some ways to tell if you are looking at a set of originals. Check out this NOS set I have on my Hemi Charger. The coil wire has N 3Q printed in WHITE. Repros sets just use the same yellow lettered wire as they do for the 1-8.

5054361-Picture1052.jpg (63 downloads)
Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction [Re: hemi70se] #232909
02/26/09 12:56 PM
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mccannix Offline
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I wonder if there would be enough interest to print the Canadian version of the wires.
Canadian built A and B-bodies left the Windsor, Ontario plant with these wires shown on top.

5054510-wires1.jpg (69 downloads)
Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction [Re: mccannix] #232910
02/26/09 12:58 PM
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Ontario, Canada
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Date was G.H. 1,2,3,4 for quarters and the year, no Q.

5054516-wires2.jpg (59 downloads)
Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction [Re: mccannix] #232911
02/26/09 01:02 PM
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Terry what state is Canada in? Is it near Ohio?


Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction [Re: ScottSmith_Harms] #232912
02/26/09 01:35 PM
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mccannix Offline
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Just to the north of you Scott... runs east to west, we've got you covered. See you should have stayed in school and studied geography.

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction [Re: mccannix] #232913
02/26/09 01:50 PM
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Terry,

There is no going east-to-west today:

One of the Ice Road Truckers went through the ice and blocked the road!

Bill Rolik

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction [Re: RT_6_PakShaker] #232914
02/26/09 05:04 PM
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Quote:

Bill
How about posting a few pics of the distributor cap boots, both the 90* and 180*?




Bruce the NOS wire I have is a service replacement. It does have the dist end boot in the bag . I don't remember if it has a 90 or 180 boot. But it's just 1 single wire in the box. But it's designed to cut the wire where needed and install the boot. anyway I'll take a pic tonight.

I've heard of some cars with white lettering on the coil wire but this is the first i've heard of anything newer than 1967 with white.

I've asked to have a run done in white , and even if I took the entire run, not gonna happen.

I've heard rumors of someone else stepping up and doing wires in all 4 quarters but thats all I have is rumors at this time

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction [Re: gtx6970] #232915
02/26/09 05:11 PM
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ScottSmith_Harms Offline
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My November 22, 1966 SPD 1967 Hemi Belvedere had a white letter coil wire (yellow on the rest) and it also had a dark red boot on the cap end.

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction [Re: ScottSmith_Harms] #232916
02/26/09 05:17 PM
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ScottSmith_Harms Offline
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This 1971 Hemi Cuda had the same white stamped wire and red cap boot as the 67 did.

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction [Re: ScottSmith_Harms] #232917
02/26/09 05:22 PM
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my 70 coronet r/t has a april 70 build date... what quarter would be correct....1st quarter or 2nd quarter

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction [Re: 340dart4spd ] #232918
02/26/09 05:38 PM
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if it's an early april - 1st quarter could be correct

repops are only avail in 3rd and 1st quarter of each succesive model year

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction [Re: gtx6970] #232919
02/26/09 08:06 PM
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NOS dist cap boot on the left - repop on the right

5055677-DSC00096.JPG (64 downloads)
Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction [Re: gtx6970] #232920
02/26/09 08:07 PM
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Repop coil wire - coil end

5055679-DSC00097.JPG (70 downloads)
Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction [Re: gtx6970] #232921
02/26/09 08:08 PM
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plug wires - cap ends - repop

5055682-DSC00098.JPG (67 downloads)
Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction [Re: gtx6970] #232922
02/26/09 09:23 PM
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The parting lines on the red end of orig versus repos also runs in opposite directions. The repo ends have writing on them where origs usually dont. There are more details too, like wires being inserted into the wire and bent over before theyre crimped etc. Once you really know the fine details you can tell the differences in 5 seconds.

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction [Re: Paul Jacobs] #232923
02/26/09 09:29 PM
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Orig end

5055922-plugwire1mod.jpg (86 downloads)
Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction [Re: Paul Jacobs] #232924
02/26/09 09:29 PM
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Repo end

5055928-plugwire3mod.jpg (80 downloads)
Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction [Re: Paul Jacobs] #232925
02/26/09 09:30 PM
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repo ends with writing

5055929-plugwire2mod.jpg (83 downloads)
Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction [Re: Paul Jacobs] #232926
02/26/09 11:53 PM
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Dist cap 90* repro on the left NOS on right notice the 2Q-70 on the NOS one.

5056371-P1010092.JPG (76 downloads)
Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction [Re: RT_6_PakShaker] #232927
02/26/09 11:54 PM
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different view

5056375-P1010093.JPG (53 downloads)
Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduc [Re: Paul Jacobs] #232928
02/27/09 10:04 AM
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Quote:

The parting lines on the red end of orig versus repos also runs in opposite directions. The repo ends have writing on them where origs usually dont. There are more details too, like wires being inserted into the wire and bent over before theyre crimped etc. Once you really know the fine details you can tell the differences in 5 seconds.




I haven't judged in quite a few years but are the judges now pulling plug wires and pulling off the boots during OEM judging ?


Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduc [Re: JohnRR] #232929
02/27/09 10:12 PM
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No they are not, but the small details shown are definately being taken into consideration!

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction [Re: RT_6_PakShaker] #232930
02/27/09 10:34 PM
02/27/09 10:34 PM

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Quote:

Dist cap 90* repro on the left NOS on right notice the 2Q-70 on the NOS one.




so paul, why cant the reproduction guys get the details correct if they are taking it off an original set?
it seems that the boots aren't even close to looking correct.
why cant they make them look correct if the patterns are there to reproduce?

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction #232931
02/27/09 11:38 PM
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Quote:

Quote:

Dist cap 90* repro on the left NOS on right notice the 2Q-70 on the NOS one.




so paul, why cant the reproduction guys get the details correct if they are taking it off an original set?
it seems that the boots aren't even close to looking correct.
why cant they make them look correct if the patterns are there to reproduce?





Likely because they cut costs by finding a currently avaliable boot style that is close enough for all but the most detail oriented restorer...

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction [Re: 1_WILD_RT] #232932
02/28/09 09:34 AM
02/28/09 09:34 AM

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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Dist cap 90* repro on the left NOS on right notice the 2Q-70 on the NOS one.




so paul, why cant the reproduction guys get the details correct if they are taking it off an original set?
it seems that the boots aren't even close to looking correct.
why cant they make them look correct if the patterns are there to reproduce?





Likely because they cut costs by finding a currently avaliable boot style that is close enough for all but the most detail oriented restorer...




to me it just just make any sense going that ar into the designing of the repro wires with logos and wire color only to come up short with boots that are totally wrong.the angles and shapes are completely wrong.
they sell for top dollar and cant get it right. its mind boggling.

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction #232933
02/28/09 11:17 AM
02/28/09 11:17 AM
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Reproductions are designed to fill a market void. And this is just MY opinion .
But in my mind there will be - has to be something to differentiate the originals from reproductions. ( keep sellers honest imo)
2nd - With any reproduction there will be concessions made in regards to some of the smaller details. Think of the costs involved to either tool up for every single piece, or use currently avail smaller pieces. Lets be honest how many here would pay twice( maybe more, maybe less) the price to get an exact duplicate of an original set?

I'm happy with a nice set that looks the part within 90%. Personally,my cars are not garage art/trailer queens. Mine will be driven. So I'm not one of the crowd that needs $400 nos plug wires

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction [Re: gtx6970] #232934
02/28/09 01:00 PM
02/28/09 01:00 PM

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Quote:

Reproductions are designed to fill a market void. And this is just MY opinion .
But in my mind there will be - has to be something to differentiate the originals from reproductions. ( keep sellers honest imo)
2nd - With any reproduction there will be concessions made in regards to some of the smaller details. Think of the costs involved to either tool up for every single piece, or use currently avail smaller pieces. Lets be honest how many here would pay twice( maybe more, maybe less) the price to get an exact duplicate of an original set?

I'm happy with a nice set that looks the part within 90%. Personally,my cars are not garage art/trailer queens. Mine will be driven. So I'm not one of the crowd that needs $400 nos plug wires




Bill, in due respect,and not bashing-i dont buy that one bit.
are you telling me to duplicate the plug and distributor boots will double the price of those wires, i dont think so, maybe add $20.00 to the set if that.
why take the trouble of reproducing a part only to get it half right. just doesnt make sense.
why are the battery cables and shaker bubble brackets,idle solenoids, wire harnesses, etc.so meticulously detailed correct.
Dave at ECS goes the extra mile in order to make the correct decals, why cant the spark plug wire vender make is correct.
you see almost every restored car out there with these wires on their cars, so its definitely not a quantity needed issue.

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction #232935
02/28/09 02:27 PM
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100%...Why would someone want a 75% correct part that cost so much ? That the problem with LOTS of reproduction parts...a very high price and poor quality. If everyone would make parts with the quality and corectness that ECS and some others are making now the hobby would be better off.

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction #232936
02/28/09 02:58 PM
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Quote:

Quote:

Reproductions are designed to fill a market void. And this is just MY opinion .
But in my mind there will be - has to be something to differentiate the originals from reproductions. ( keep sellers honest imo)
2nd - With any reproduction there will be concessions made in regards to some of the smaller details. Think of the costs involved to either tool up for every single piece, or use currently avail smaller pieces. Lets be honest how many here would pay twice( maybe more, maybe less) the price to get an exact duplicate of an original set?

I'm happy with a nice set that looks the part within 90%. Personally,my cars are not garage art/trailer queens. Mine will be driven. So I'm not one of the crowd that needs $400 nos plug wires




Bill, in due respect,and not bashing-i dont buy that one bit.
are you telling me to duplicate the plug and distributor boots will double the price of those wires, i dont think so, maybe add $20.00 to the set if that.
why take the trouble of reproducing a part only to get it half right. just doesnt make sense.
why are the battery cables and shaker bubble brackets,idle solenoids, wire harnesses, etc.so meticulously detailed correct.
Dave at ECS goes the extra mile in order to make the correct decals, why cant the spark plug wire vender make is correct.
you see almost every restored car out there with these wires on their cars, so its definitely not a quantity needed issue.





Think about it this way...So far all they had to do was print logos on a black 7mm wire & install boots that look pretty close... If the exact boots were still being produced they probably would be using them... So to take care of this detail that few really care about they would need to have molds made & do short runs of straight,135 degree, 90 degree plug boots, straight & 90 degree dist. boots, plus red dist boots & coil boots... Costs would go up...At that point how many that would have bought the $100.00 resto wires don't want to pay the extra costs therebe limiting the marketability causing the price to rise to try to recover the costs never mind about making s profit...

There are lots of substandard repo parts that I feel should be done right....At least for me, this isn't one of them... Sheet metal, trim, interior, lots of stuff but plug wires I'd rather have better performing p-arts rather than more correct parts....

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction [Re: 1_WILD_RT] #232937
02/28/09 03:34 PM
02/28/09 03:34 PM

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i dont know about you but the 1st thing i look at in an engine bay is the correct air cleaner element and plug wires then i stsrt to look around like the wiper motor,coil markings and h bolts.
im shocked a guy like roger gibson and frank badalson hasnt taken the wires to a new higher level of accuracy like they did on the battery wires.
i think its a no brainer to make these correct. so you have to make a mold for 3 different angles for vthe boots. i dont see a real big problem there.
i personally think FIRECORE could have the race cars,FAST and show cars all in his back pocket with a truly correct set of plug wires. with his quality wire and correct details it would be a homerun.

5059752-115-1531_IMG.JPG (50 downloads)
Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction #232938
02/28/09 05:41 PM
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gtx6970  Offline OP
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It's a dry heat
Just food for thought - Aren't the Firecore wires an 8mm with optional 8.5mm wire.
if so could they achieve the same results with a 7mm wire

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction [Re: gtx6970] #232939
02/28/09 05:49 PM
02/28/09 05:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714
Spokane Washington
ScottSmith_Harms Offline
Mr Wizzard
ScottSmith_Harms  Offline
Mr Wizzard

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714
Spokane Washington
Regardless of the dia. the Firecore wires have a different sheen and overall look as compared to OEM wires, there's really no way you'd get them to look exact to OEMs regardles of boots or stampings. However, I'd still like to get some Firecores with the factory style stamping because even if not 100% correct, they'd look right to most onlookers keeping a generally correct the factory "look"


Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction [Re: ScottSmith_Harms] #232940
02/28/09 06:33 PM
02/28/09 06:33 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 21,405
It's a dry heat
gtx6970 Offline OP
Too Many Posts
gtx6970  Offline OP
Too Many Posts

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 21,405
It's a dry heat
I have an OE set - 1st quarter 1968 Hemi wires here. And as mentioned the cap boot is a dark reddish color but the writing is yellow just as the rest of the wires

5060081-DSC00100.JPG (52 downloads)
Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction [Re: gtx6970] #232941
02/28/09 07:08 PM
02/28/09 07:08 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,783
Ontario, Canada
mccannix Offline
master
mccannix  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,783
Ontario, Canada
Not to hi-jack this thread but was the size of the superstock wires 8 mm?
I found a bunch of these grey Packard wires with ends at an old warehouse.
The owner told me there was a spool of dark reddish or burgundy wire like these there also...I haven't found it yet.
Was Packard printed on the early factory ones...Bill? Scott?

5060151-packard.jpg (44 downloads)
Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction [Re: mccannix] #232942
02/28/09 07:21 PM
02/28/09 07:21 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 21,405
It's a dry heat
gtx6970 Offline OP
Too Many Posts
gtx6970  Offline OP
Too Many Posts

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 21,405
It's a dry heat
The earliest I remember seeing any grey wire is late 70's or early 80's Gm cars.

I think the race Hemi wires are in fact 8mm.
I've got some pics of race hemi wires but not on this PC. I'll post them tomorrow afternoon/evening.

gotta go ,Vollyball game tonight

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction #232943
03/01/09 10:41 AM
03/01/09 10:41 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,322
S
sixbbl69 Offline
top fuel
sixbbl69  Offline
top fuel
S

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,322
Quote:

i dont know about you but the 1st thing i look at in an engine bay is the correct air cleaner element and plug wires then i stsrt to look around like the wiper motor,coil markings and h bolts.
im shocked a guy like roger gibson and frank badalson hasnt taken the wires to a new higher level of accuracy like they did on the battery wires.
i think its a no brainer to make these correct. so you have to make a mold for 3 different angles for vthe boots. i dont see a real big problem there.
i personally think FIRECORE could have the race cars,FAST and show cars all in his back pocket with a truly correct set of plug wires. with his quality wire and correct details it would be a homerun.


I think the reason roger gibson and frank b don't get into this is the same reason they didn't get into the H-wheels. they know there is a market for this stuff but a very small market and they also know its not worth the effort or money to produce parts that only 10 guys like you would ever buy.they also know that 9 out of the 10 would be SHOCKED at the price and on moparts for 2 weeks like the Goodyear red line tires everyone just had to have. iam shocked that a guy like you with all your mopar knowledge and big money hasn't tooled up to produce all this stuff and corner the market?????????

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction [Re: ScottSmith_Harms] #232944
03/01/09 02:32 PM
03/01/09 02:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,163
NORTHERN VA
T
THESHAKERPROJECT Offline
super stock
THESHAKERPROJECT  Offline
super stock
T

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,163
NORTHERN VA
Quote:

Regardless of the dia. the Firecore wires have a different sheen and overall look as compared to OEM wires, there's really no way you'd get them to look exact to OEMs regardles of boots or stampings. However, I'd still like to get some Firecores with the factory style stamping because even if not 100% correct, they'd look right to most onlookers keeping a generally correct the factory "look"




then you could have the stock/show looks AND better performance as well. Those Firecores are a great upgrade for Mopars and with the factory lettering they would be a home run !!

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction [Re: THESHAKERPROJECT] #232945
03/01/09 11:51 PM
03/01/09 11:51 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,039
INDIANA
P
Paul Jacobs Offline
super stock
Paul Jacobs  Offline
super stock
P

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,039
INDIANA
My guess on the reason they do not make these wires exactly as originals is they are using left over tooling from someone. 15 years ago you could walk into a NAPA dealer and get a set of Beldens for a mopar and guess what-they were black 7mm with the same color and shaped boots as original, minus the makings. I dont know of course if this is the case, but possible. It would not be that costly for them to make the molds for the boots-they are very simple molds, I have a friend who builds these tools everyday-he could have them built in a day.

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction [Re: Paul Jacobs] #232946
03/02/09 12:20 AM
03/02/09 12:20 AM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 12,129
Cleveland
sunroofgtx Offline
I Live Here
sunroofgtx  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 12,129
Cleveland
I believe GM was the first to have 8mm wires. In the late 70's , early 80's. Delco I think. I willmake a call tomorrow to see about this "permission slip" neededfor the stamping. A problem that happens with quality race core when building sets, is that when you strip and fold it for the brass terminals to be terminated, about half the time, the core breaks. Guys what, now your lengths are off. Its a piece of cake building the HEI sets. We use stainless dual crimps.We crimp on the core and insulate. Ours is on the left.


It sometimes takes 2 hours to get a single set of FactoryFit 8mm wires finished. Thats with automated terminal machines. The race core does not like to be bent. This is why we push the racewire, 8.5mm so much. Its a more-friendly assembly process using the HEI type termianals. To get exact boots made, I believe the minimum count is 10k units, not including the set-up costs for the molds.

Thanks for the kind words , guys. It's just nice to build a racewire in 8mm, that would pass as a stock wire to most onlookers. Its tough to get into the exact duplication market , with all of the date code possibilities and print types. If we got it exact, there will always be the people who swear its all wrong.

Here is our 8mm. It may look all wrong to some, but customers love the way they fit, and some swear their engines love them too.





New orange Max Wedge and Hemi wires. We make sets in either solid core or suppression in 7mm.



Join the quickest team in motorsports. Team FireCore. CustomWiresets.com
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