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Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction

Posted By: gtx6970

Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction - 02/22/09 09:29 PM

I get asked every once in a while, just how much of a difference there is between the 2.
To follow are a few comparisons of an NOS spark plug wire compared to a reproduction plug wire. 3rd quarter of 1969 . The nos wires box is dated 10-69 .
I'll do a ohms resistance comparison on it tomorow afternoon, new versus new. I have an original Hemi plug wire set here , but really wanted to do a comparison of new versus new.
In all the following pics NOS is on top and repop is the bottom one. Also shown is an nos single wire plug wire clip still attached on the wire.Click on the attachment to see a much larger picture.

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Posted By: gtx6970

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction - 02/22/09 09:31 PM

2

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Posted By: gtx6970

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction - 02/22/09 09:31 PM

3

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Posted By: gtx6970

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction - 02/22/09 09:32 PM

4

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Posted By: gtx6970

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction - 02/22/09 09:32 PM

5

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Posted By: gtx6970

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction - 02/22/09 09:33 PM

6

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Posted By: gtx6970

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction - 02/22/09 09:34 PM

the grommet

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Posted By: sunroofgtx

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction - 02/24/09 03:35 AM

Bill, great pics. Looks like the repops are laser-jet printed. We have been looking into doin that. Right now, our 8.5's are painted on with a print wheel when manufactured. Nice pics. What are thos 135's ? #8 on a 440 ?
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction - 02/24/09 03:41 AM

Sunroof, you guys need to get on the stick and get yours printed up like OEM. If you need help getting lic. etc just let me know.
Posted By: Dodge Don

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction - 02/26/09 01:26 AM

Out of curiousity, does anyone make modern style high performance plug wires that are made to look like classic factory correct wires?
Posted By: 1_WILD_RT

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction - 02/26/09 01:39 AM

Quote:

Out of curiousity, does anyone make modern style high performance plug wires that are made to look like classic factory correct wires?




Thats exactly what Scott in the post above yours is prodding Rick about...
Posted By: RT_6_PakShaker

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction - 02/26/09 04:33 AM

Bill
How about posting a few pics of the distributor cap boots, both the 90* and 180*?
Posted By: hemi70se

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction - 02/26/09 03:37 PM

For the most part the repro wire sets are very nice, but there are some ways to tell if you are looking at a set of originals. Check out this NOS set I have on my Hemi Charger. The coil wire has N 3Q printed in WHITE. Repros sets just use the same yellow lettered wire as they do for the 1-8.

Attached picture 5054361-Picture1052.jpg
Posted By: mccannix

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction - 02/26/09 04:56 PM

I wonder if there would be enough interest to print the Canadian version of the wires.
Canadian built A and B-bodies left the Windsor, Ontario plant with these wires shown on top.

Attached picture 5054510-wires1.jpg
Posted By: mccannix

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction - 02/26/09 04:58 PM

Date was G.H. 1,2,3,4 for quarters and the year, no Q.

Attached picture 5054516-wires2.jpg
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction - 02/26/09 05:02 PM

Terry what state is Canada in? Is it near Ohio?

Posted By: mccannix

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction - 02/26/09 05:35 PM

Just to the north of you Scott... runs east to west, we've got you covered. See you should have stayed in school and studied geography.
Posted By: bremotorsports

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction - 02/26/09 05:50 PM

Terry,

There is no going east-to-west today:

One of the Ice Road Truckers went through the ice and blocked the road!

Bill Rolik
Posted By: gtx6970

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction - 02/26/09 09:04 PM

Quote:

Bill
How about posting a few pics of the distributor cap boots, both the 90* and 180*?




Bruce the NOS wire I have is a service replacement. It does have the dist end boot in the bag . I don't remember if it has a 90 or 180 boot. But it's just 1 single wire in the box. But it's designed to cut the wire where needed and install the boot. anyway I'll take a pic tonight.

I've heard of some cars with white lettering on the coil wire but this is the first i've heard of anything newer than 1967 with white.

I've asked to have a run done in white , and even if I took the entire run, not gonna happen.

I've heard rumors of someone else stepping up and doing wires in all 4 quarters but thats all I have is rumors at this time
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction - 02/26/09 09:11 PM

My November 22, 1966 SPD 1967 Hemi Belvedere had a white letter coil wire (yellow on the rest) and it also had a dark red boot on the cap end.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction - 02/26/09 09:17 PM

This 1971 Hemi Cuda had the same white stamped wire and red cap boot as the 67 did.

Attached picture 5055204-71CudaDistcap.jpg
Posted By: 340dart4spd

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction - 02/26/09 09:22 PM

my 70 coronet r/t has a april 70 build date... what quarter would be correct....1st quarter or 2nd quarter
Posted By: gtx6970

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction - 02/26/09 09:38 PM

if it's an early april - 1st quarter could be correct

repops are only avail in 3rd and 1st quarter of each succesive model year
Posted By: gtx6970

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction - 02/27/09 12:06 AM

NOS dist cap boot on the left - repop on the right

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Posted By: gtx6970

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction - 02/27/09 12:07 AM

Repop coil wire - coil end

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Posted By: gtx6970

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction - 02/27/09 12:08 AM

plug wires - cap ends - repop

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Posted By: Paul Jacobs

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction - 02/27/09 01:23 AM

The parting lines on the red end of orig versus repos also runs in opposite directions. The repo ends have writing on them where origs usually dont. There are more details too, like wires being inserted into the wire and bent over before theyre crimped etc. Once you really know the fine details you can tell the differences in 5 seconds.
Posted By: Paul Jacobs

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction - 02/27/09 01:29 AM

Orig end

Attached picture 5055922-plugwire1mod.jpg
Posted By: Paul Jacobs

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction - 02/27/09 01:29 AM

Repo end

Attached picture 5055928-plugwire3mod.jpg
Posted By: Paul Jacobs

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction - 02/27/09 01:30 AM

repo ends with writing

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Posted By: RT_6_PakShaker

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction - 02/27/09 03:53 AM

Dist cap 90* repro on the left NOS on right notice the 2Q-70 on the NOS one.

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Posted By: RT_6_PakShaker

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction - 02/27/09 03:54 AM

different view

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Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduc - 02/27/09 02:04 PM

Quote:

The parting lines on the red end of orig versus repos also runs in opposite directions. The repo ends have writing on them where origs usually dont. There are more details too, like wires being inserted into the wire and bent over before theyre crimped etc. Once you really know the fine details you can tell the differences in 5 seconds.




I haven't judged in quite a few years but are the judges now pulling plug wires and pulling off the boots during OEM judging ?

Posted By: Paul Jacobs

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduc - 02/28/09 02:12 AM

No they are not, but the small details shown are definately being taken into consideration!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction - 02/28/09 02:34 AM

Quote:

Dist cap 90* repro on the left NOS on right notice the 2Q-70 on the NOS one.




so paul, why cant the reproduction guys get the details correct if they are taking it off an original set?
it seems that the boots aren't even close to looking correct.
why cant they make them look correct if the patterns are there to reproduce?
Posted By: 1_WILD_RT

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction - 02/28/09 03:38 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Dist cap 90* repro on the left NOS on right notice the 2Q-70 on the NOS one.




so paul, why cant the reproduction guys get the details correct if they are taking it off an original set?
it seems that the boots aren't even close to looking correct.
why cant they make them look correct if the patterns are there to reproduce?





Likely because they cut costs by finding a currently avaliable boot style that is close enough for all but the most detail oriented restorer...
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction - 02/28/09 01:34 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Dist cap 90* repro on the left NOS on right notice the 2Q-70 on the NOS one.




so paul, why cant the reproduction guys get the details correct if they are taking it off an original set?
it seems that the boots aren't even close to looking correct.
why cant they make them look correct if the patterns are there to reproduce?





Likely because they cut costs by finding a currently avaliable boot style that is close enough for all but the most detail oriented restorer...




to me it just just make any sense going that ar into the designing of the repro wires with logos and wire color only to come up short with boots that are totally wrong.the angles and shapes are completely wrong.
they sell for top dollar and cant get it right. its mind boggling.
Posted By: gtx6970

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction - 02/28/09 03:17 PM

Reproductions are designed to fill a market void. And this is just MY opinion .
But in my mind there will be - has to be something to differentiate the originals from reproductions. ( keep sellers honest imo)
2nd - With any reproduction there will be concessions made in regards to some of the smaller details. Think of the costs involved to either tool up for every single piece, or use currently avail smaller pieces. Lets be honest how many here would pay twice( maybe more, maybe less) the price to get an exact duplicate of an original set?

I'm happy with a nice set that looks the part within 90%. Personally,my cars are not garage art/trailer queens. Mine will be driven. So I'm not one of the crowd that needs $400 nos plug wires
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction - 02/28/09 05:00 PM

Quote:

Reproductions are designed to fill a market void. And this is just MY opinion .
But in my mind there will be - has to be something to differentiate the originals from reproductions. ( keep sellers honest imo)
2nd - With any reproduction there will be concessions made in regards to some of the smaller details. Think of the costs involved to either tool up for every single piece, or use currently avail smaller pieces. Lets be honest how many here would pay twice( maybe more, maybe less) the price to get an exact duplicate of an original set?

I'm happy with a nice set that looks the part within 90%. Personally,my cars are not garage art/trailer queens. Mine will be driven. So I'm not one of the crowd that needs $400 nos plug wires




Bill, in due respect,and not bashing-i dont buy that one bit.
are you telling me to duplicate the plug and distributor boots will double the price of those wires, i dont think so, maybe add $20.00 to the set if that.
why take the trouble of reproducing a part only to get it half right. just doesnt make sense.
why are the battery cables and shaker bubble brackets,idle solenoids, wire harnesses, etc.so meticulously detailed correct.
Dave at ECS goes the extra mile in order to make the correct decals, why cant the spark plug wire vender make is correct.
you see almost every restored car out there with these wires on their cars, so its definitely not a quantity needed issue.
Posted By: THESHAKERPROJECT

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction - 02/28/09 06:27 PM

100%...Why would someone want a 75% correct part that cost so much ? That the problem with LOTS of reproduction parts...a very high price and poor quality. If everyone would make parts with the quality and corectness that ECS and some others are making now the hobby would be better off.
Posted By: 1_WILD_RT

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction - 02/28/09 06:58 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Reproductions are designed to fill a market void. And this is just MY opinion .
But in my mind there will be - has to be something to differentiate the originals from reproductions. ( keep sellers honest imo)
2nd - With any reproduction there will be concessions made in regards to some of the smaller details. Think of the costs involved to either tool up for every single piece, or use currently avail smaller pieces. Lets be honest how many here would pay twice( maybe more, maybe less) the price to get an exact duplicate of an original set?

I'm happy with a nice set that looks the part within 90%. Personally,my cars are not garage art/trailer queens. Mine will be driven. So I'm not one of the crowd that needs $400 nos plug wires




Bill, in due respect,and not bashing-i dont buy that one bit.
are you telling me to duplicate the plug and distributor boots will double the price of those wires, i dont think so, maybe add $20.00 to the set if that.
why take the trouble of reproducing a part only to get it half right. just doesnt make sense.
why are the battery cables and shaker bubble brackets,idle solenoids, wire harnesses, etc.so meticulously detailed correct.
Dave at ECS goes the extra mile in order to make the correct decals, why cant the spark plug wire vender make is correct.
you see almost every restored car out there with these wires on their cars, so its definitely not a quantity needed issue.





Think about it this way...So far all they had to do was print logos on a black 7mm wire & install boots that look pretty close... If the exact boots were still being produced they probably would be using them... So to take care of this detail that few really care about they would need to have molds made & do short runs of straight,135 degree, 90 degree plug boots, straight & 90 degree dist. boots, plus red dist boots & coil boots... Costs would go up...At that point how many that would have bought the $100.00 resto wires don't want to pay the extra costs therebe limiting the marketability causing the price to rise to try to recover the costs never mind about making s profit...

There are lots of substandard repo parts that I feel should be done right....At least for me, this isn't one of them... Sheet metal, trim, interior, lots of stuff but plug wires I'd rather have better performing p-arts rather than more correct parts....
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction - 02/28/09 07:34 PM

i dont know about you but the 1st thing i look at in an engine bay is the correct air cleaner element and plug wires then i stsrt to look around like the wiper motor,coil markings and h bolts.
im shocked a guy like roger gibson and frank badalson hasnt taken the wires to a new higher level of accuracy like they did on the battery wires.
i think its a no brainer to make these correct. so you have to make a mold for 3 different angles for vthe boots. i dont see a real big problem there.
i personally think FIRECORE could have the race cars,FAST and show cars all in his back pocket with a truly correct set of plug wires. with his quality wire and correct details it would be a homerun.

Attached picture 5059752-115-1531_IMG.JPG
Posted By: gtx6970

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction - 02/28/09 09:41 PM

Just food for thought - Aren't the Firecore wires an 8mm with optional 8.5mm wire.
if so could they achieve the same results with a 7mm wire
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction - 02/28/09 09:49 PM

Regardless of the dia. the Firecore wires have a different sheen and overall look as compared to OEM wires, there's really no way you'd get them to look exact to OEMs regardles of boots or stampings. However, I'd still like to get some Firecores with the factory style stamping because even if not 100% correct, they'd look right to most onlookers keeping a generally correct the factory "look"

Posted By: gtx6970

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction - 02/28/09 10:33 PM

I have an OE set - 1st quarter 1968 Hemi wires here. And as mentioned the cap boot is a dark reddish color but the writing is yellow just as the rest of the wires

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Posted By: mccannix

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction - 02/28/09 11:08 PM

Not to hi-jack this thread but was the size of the superstock wires 8 mm?
I found a bunch of these grey Packard wires with ends at an old warehouse.
The owner told me there was a spool of dark reddish or burgundy wire like these there also...I haven't found it yet.
Was Packard printed on the early factory ones...Bill? Scott?

Attached picture 5060151-packard.jpg
Posted By: gtx6970

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction - 02/28/09 11:21 PM

The earliest I remember seeing any grey wire is late 70's or early 80's Gm cars.

I think the race Hemi wires are in fact 8mm.
I've got some pics of race hemi wires but not on this PC. I'll post them tomorrow afternoon/evening.

gotta go ,Vollyball game tonight
Posted By: sixbbl69

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction - 03/01/09 02:41 PM

Quote:

i dont know about you but the 1st thing i look at in an engine bay is the correct air cleaner element and plug wires then i stsrt to look around like the wiper motor,coil markings and h bolts.
im shocked a guy like roger gibson and frank badalson hasnt taken the wires to a new higher level of accuracy like they did on the battery wires.
i think its a no brainer to make these correct. so you have to make a mold for 3 different angles for vthe boots. i dont see a real big problem there.
i personally think FIRECORE could have the race cars,FAST and show cars all in his back pocket with a truly correct set of plug wires. with his quality wire and correct details it would be a homerun.


I think the reason roger gibson and frank b don't get into this is the same reason they didn't get into the H-wheels. they know there is a market for this stuff but a very small market and they also know its not worth the effort or money to produce parts that only 10 guys like you would ever buy.they also know that 9 out of the 10 would be SHOCKED at the price and on moparts for 2 weeks like the Goodyear red line tires everyone just had to have. iam shocked that a guy like you with all your mopar knowledge and big money hasn't tooled up to produce all this stuff and corner the market?????????
Posted By: THESHAKERPROJECT

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction - 03/01/09 06:32 PM

Quote:

Regardless of the dia. the Firecore wires have a different sheen and overall look as compared to OEM wires, there's really no way you'd get them to look exact to OEMs regardles of boots or stampings. However, I'd still like to get some Firecores with the factory style stamping because even if not 100% correct, they'd look right to most onlookers keeping a generally correct the factory "look"




then you could have the stock/show looks AND better performance as well. Those Firecores are a great upgrade for Mopars and with the factory lettering they would be a home run !!
Posted By: Paul Jacobs

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction - 03/02/09 03:51 AM

My guess on the reason they do not make these wires exactly as originals is they are using left over tooling from someone. 15 years ago you could walk into a NAPA dealer and get a set of Beldens for a mopar and guess what-they were black 7mm with the same color and shaped boots as original, minus the makings. I dont know of course if this is the case, but possible. It would not be that costly for them to make the molds for the boots-they are very simple molds, I have a friend who builds these tools everyday-he could have them built in a day.
Posted By: sunroofgtx

Re: Dated plug wires- comparisons - NOS versus Reproduction - 03/02/09 04:20 AM

I believe GM was the first to have 8mm wires. In the late 70's , early 80's. Delco I think. I willmake a call tomorrow to see about this "permission slip" neededfor the stamping. A problem that happens with quality race core when building sets, is that when you strip and fold it for the brass terminals to be terminated, about half the time, the core breaks. Guys what, now your lengths are off. Its a piece of cake building the HEI sets. We use stainless dual crimps.We crimp on the core and insulate. Ours is on the left.


It sometimes takes 2 hours to get a single set of FactoryFit 8mm wires finished. Thats with automated terminal machines. The race core does not like to be bent. This is why we push the racewire, 8.5mm so much. Its a more-friendly assembly process using the HEI type termianals. To get exact boots made, I believe the minimum count is 10k units, not including the set-up costs for the molds.

Thanks for the kind words , guys. It's just nice to build a racewire in 8mm, that would pass as a stock wire to most onlookers. Its tough to get into the exact duplication market , with all of the date code possibilities and print types. If we got it exact, there will always be the people who swear its all wrong.

Here is our 8mm. It may look all wrong to some, but customers love the way they fit, and some swear their engines love them too.





New orange Max Wedge and Hemi wires. We make sets in either solid core or suppression in 7mm.

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