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Torque Converter Questions. #2328145
06/28/17 05:09 PM
06/28/17 05:09 PM
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Crabra Offline OP
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I am bracket racing and want to install a 3000 stall torque converter.
My set up is 72 duster with a 318 engine 727 trans and 3.55 8 3/4 suregrip.When the car was built I got a mopar performance 145k converter.
I should not have done that.Car will only rev up to 2000 rpm's at starting line.Can someone please explain the difference in 9,10 and 11 inch converters.I know a 3000 stall would help my ET.Best time now is 15.64 in the 1/4 mile.I have a lockup converter in it now.

Re: Torque Converter Questions. [Re: Crabra] #2328154
06/28/17 05:34 PM
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How high do you want it to stall?
Based on info provided - 145K and current stall of 2000, your engine is making 190 lbs. ft. Of torque.

Re: Torque Converter Questions. [Re: A727Tflite] #2328156
06/28/17 05:36 PM
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I want to leave at 3000 rpm.

Re: Torque Converter Questions. [Re: Crabra] #2328178
06/28/17 06:47 PM
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You would need a converter with a k factor of around 215. Your torque sounds low - what's been done to the engine?

Re: Torque Converter Questions. [Re: A727Tflite] #2328191
06/28/17 07:13 PM
06/28/17 07:13 PM
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Stock bottom end. J heads 188 intake 160 exhaust eddy performer 750 eddy carb.

Re: Torque Converter Questions. [Re: A727Tflite] #2328194
06/28/17 07:17 PM
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If you understand k factor please explain it.

Re: Torque Converter Questions. [Re: Crabra] #2328253
06/28/17 08:43 PM
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K factor is how we measure converter stall and efficiency and one of the things we use to compare one converter to another. I'm sure you know that as you increase input torque you raise stall speed. Saying you have a 3000 stall (assuming you tested it behind an engine) means nothing to the next guy that has more or less torque. K factor on the other hand is a measure of a particular converter that is found on a convertor dynamometer with a certain input torque level while monitoring temperature, oil pressure and oil flow. A standard 318 appears to be rated at more torque than you are putting out - that's why I asked what was done to the engine. Sounds like you might be down on power. Timing, elevation, engine mods will affect your stall speed.

Re: Torque Converter Questions. [Re: A727Tflite] #2328468
06/29/17 08:30 AM
06/29/17 08:30 AM
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Hemi ragtop Offline
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Not to high jack this thread, but I sent my 11" Hughes to PTC for tightening. I make 640lb' of torque on an engine dyno, run a 3.54 gear with Gear Vendor in a 4100lb car on the street. I wanted crisper response and less slip on the freeway.
The converter came back with a 250 K factor?
How tight is a factory converter? How high can a K factor be in a non lock up 11"?

Re: Torque Converter Questions. [Re: Crabra] #2328471
06/29/17 08:43 AM
06/29/17 08:43 AM
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Why do you want to leave at 3000rpm?
Stock cam? Headers?
Your engine probably stops making power before 5,000 rpm, a 3,000 isn't going to
help, especially with 3.55 gears and a 318.
What's your MPH? That will help determine how much power you are making.


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Re: Torque Converter Questions. [Re: Crabra] #2328490
06/29/17 10:34 AM
06/29/17 10:34 AM
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polyspheric Offline
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“K” factor: RPM = K × (T^.5)


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Re: Torque Converter Questions. [Re: Spaceman Spiff] #2328495
06/29/17 10:53 AM
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Mile per hour in the 1/4 mile anywhere from 86 to 89 mph

Re: Torque Converter Questions. [Re: Hemi ragtop] #2328512
06/29/17 11:35 AM
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K factor is not specific to lockup or non-lockup. As for what factory k factors are - depends on application. Mopar diesel was 95 k from early 90's to 2007, then we went to 105, 115. Old converters in 727 were usually around 145. The new 8 speed is around 175. NAG has two different k's depending on engine. With your torque rating and if truly 250 k you should stall up to 6300+ -
250 k out of an eleven inch sounds pretty stout - what stall are you getting? As you go larger on a converter it's harder to get higher stall. Think large prop versus small on a boat. Larger usually is more efficient than smaller.

Last edited by Transman; 06/29/17 11:48 AM.
Re: Torque Converter Questions. [Re: Crabra] #2328540
06/29/17 12:43 PM
06/29/17 12:43 PM
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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Old school shoot from the hip analysis.......

-318 with j heads...... Unless a bunch of milling was done, it lost some compression, and now has bigger runners with lower port velocity in the rpm range where the stall is happening. (Depending on what vintage the short block is/which pistons it has, it could easily end up under 8:1cr.)

-750 carb...... Way too big for this application

-cam??

More than likely it would take a tight 10" to be able to get a true 3000rpm flash stall behind that motor....... And even that converter might require a few tweaks to the motor before seeing all of 3000.

Then the question becomes...... Is a 3000 stall converter what that motor combo really needs?


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Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: Torque Converter Questions. [Re: fast68plymouth] #2328596
06/29/17 02:34 PM
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If carb is too big why is car faster than when I had a 600 eddy carb?

Re: Torque Converter Questions. [Re: Crabra] #2328646
06/29/17 03:38 PM
06/29/17 03:38 PM
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What's your total timing?


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Re: Torque Converter Questions. [Re: Crabra] #2328697
06/29/17 04:32 PM
06/29/17 04:32 PM
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Using the Moroso calculator, 89mph in 1/4 is 18.5 lbs/hp.

So, 189hp @3500lbs.

A 318 can easily make over 250hp, so even if the car combo is far enough off to use up 10% of the available power, that would still put you at 225hp, as it sits in the car.
That would show about 94mph at 3500lbs. These numbers will vary depending where you're racing at, obviously.

Perhaps addressing the apparent low-ish power output might help make the converter act more like you want it to.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: Torque Converter Questions. [Re: Crabra] #2328837
06/29/17 10:06 PM
06/29/17 10:06 PM
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New York
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why is car faster than when I had a 600 eddy carb

Fuel curve closer to what the engine wanted, very common. 750 was less wrong than 600.


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Re: Torque Converter Questions. [Re: polyspheric] #2328838
06/29/17 10:06 PM
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Sorry, I am not a math guru, explain K factor equasion?

Re: Torque Converter Questions. [Re: Hemi ragtop] #2328852
06/29/17 10:36 PM
06/29/17 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted By Hemi ragtop
Sorry, I am not a math guru, explain K factor equasion?
yeah me too, I sucked at algebra.


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Re: Torque Converter Questions. [Re: Crabra] #2328880
06/29/17 11:13 PM
06/29/17 11:13 PM
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This is a nice simplified description:

http://kennedysdynotune.com/torque-converter-tech-tips-selection/

Quote:
Labeling a converter as having a specific stall without reference to the motor it is behind is misleading and naive. That stock converter, which stalls at ~1,500rpm behind a stock motor, might stall at 3,000rpm or more behind a blown big block, if it didn’t blow up first! To elaborate a bit: stall speed is not just a function of the converter. It is also a function of engine torque. This can be relatively easily described by defining the “K” factor. K is simply the constant in the equation K = rpm/sqrt{torque}. The equation describes the observed behavior of the converter behind a specific engine. What this allows us to do is determine what the stall speed of a given converter will be if we put it behind a different engine.

For example, if a motor has 400 ft-lbs. of torque and stalls a particular converter at 3,000rpm, K = 3,000/sqrt{400} = 150. Since we know K = 150, we can predict the new stall speed if torque is increased to say 500 ft-lbs by rearranging the equation to rpm = K*sqrt{torque}. In this case, the new stall would be rpm = 150*sqrt{500} = 3350. This formula isn’t perfect. It won’t work if the engines have wildly different torque curve, for example. And it won’t tell if a particular converter will hold together under markedly increased torque. But it gives a decent ballpark estimate and serves to illustrate a basic aspect of torque converter function. For most street and street/strip, you probably want a stall in the 2,500-3,500rpm range. But do not buy an off the shelf converter thinking it will give you the advertised stall unless it has been proven to do so on an identical setup. Speak to the manufacturer first to be sure you are getting what you need for your particular combo.


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